Oxford Cambridge 2021 Thread 6

[Chocomel]

Hopefully this is in the right place?

Yes @goodbyestranger if you read my earlier full post explaining this, we did call around & look into this fully with oxford before applying. I had a lovely long conversation with the admissions tutor about whether it would be a good environment for my dd, explained her particular problem etc and was reassured that O would be aware of my dd condition & that they were fully inclusive & supportive of things like this. I do feel a bit misled and let down by the advice I must admit. I might perhaps give them a call to talk it through but I know it won’t change anything now. I’m feeling a bit miffed that we were so well prepared & didn’t go into the process lightly or with eyes shut, in fact quite the opposite. As dd applied last year & was rejected pre- interview we did everything to give ourselves a chance for this year. Last year btw she took it on the chin & bounced back an hour later with no problems or even a panic attack then so it’s not her resilience either.
I feel like the old adage ‘hard work pays off is a lie & I feel like a fraud for telling her this now as she has worked sooo hard for it this year, on top of deciding to take another 2 extra A levels for something constructive to do in this pandemic year she did so much extra curricular for her subject. She set herself 2 essays a week and she already has her Eng lit A level! If that’s not dedicated studying I don’t know what is!

Perhaps she overworked?

@dontdointernetbut and @mikeandike I'm so sorry to hear about your DC's experiences. So much resting on 20 minutes. It is heartbreaking, particularly when your DC are as passionate about their subjects as you've described.

It does sound like they are both excellent candidates who will stand out where ever they go. I can't remember if either had applied before but if not would this be an option, once their A Level grades are in the bag? Or maybe look at postgraduate study there? Pore over those manuscripts a few years later?

FWIW I disagree with PPs who said that the pressure of Oxford may be too much for someone with MH issues. Some colleges are very small and the tutors really get to know their students. Easier to spot when someone is struggling before it gets too far.

Anyway, the very best of luck to them whatever they decide to do.

whiteroseredrose I said that that would be the obvious response if a mother intervened pleading panic issues. That's not the same as saying I believe that the Oxford environment is necessarily wrong for those with MH issues (I don't).

Goodbyestranger I wasn't specifically referring to you. It seems to be perceived wisdom that MH issues would mean that Oxbridge would be too stressful. But for some people it's the right kind of stress so it may be ok.

We've been discussing the vagaries of Oxbridge offers over dinner. In DS's year many 'obvious' Oxbridge candidates didn't get offers while others who just gave it a go did. DD got an offer this year but her really good friend didn't. We're really shocked because her friend has all 9s at GCSE and predicted 4 x A* at A level too. But she was applying for a v competitive course, medicine. She'll shine somewhere else I'm sure.

many 'obvious' Oxbridge candidates didn't get offers while others who just gave it a go did.

DD very much falls into that category. She got good (but not all A) GCSEs and good (but not all A) A-levels, and applied this year in a spirit of ‘what else am I going to do in a pandemic except read up on obscure Renaissance drama?’

I’m proud of her, of course, but feeling slightly guilty that she has an offer that others so passionately wanted.

Don't be, FlyingSquid. My DD has a similar GCSE profile (no A levels yet), and did well overall but in a middling way for actual offer holders in the entrance exam. She's got onto a course that has a very low acceptance rate. Now of course, as my DD, I knew she had something special from her toddler days, but no doubt I have that in common with every parent on this thread. Perhaps you feel that yours, like mine, would have taken redirection more philosophically than some more devoted candidates. It would still have been a disappointment, though. Nobody - no mere mortal anyway - gets into Oxford without a great deal of talent and application. It's important to acknowledge that when margins are so fine, luck plays a big part in it too. But let's not feel bad because our DC were on the right side of it.

Dang it, getting ahead of myself again. Poor editing this time. She has an offer for a competitive course. She hasn't got onto it yet.

@goodbyestranger no she’s not overworked but thanks for pointing that out. She has always worked at a high level & it suits her. It is her own decision to study as she does-we are not pushy parents at all!
And for your information I am not a mother ‘intervening, pleading panic issues’ for one, I haven’t intervened, just worried about my dd and her future and two I have not pleaded panic issues to anybody?? I have just been very honest and explained what has happened looking for some advice and support from others that might be in the same boat. I do hope that I misunderstood the tone of your message as it sounded a bit ‘judgemental to me and I’m not here for that.

Congratulations to the DC that got an offer.
My DD was redirected last year after interview, and we was so sad for her because she put her heart and soul into that application, even getting into the Oxford UNIQ summer school in 2018, and having all the right GCSEs' and several work experiences, moocs and all of that.

One of the things we did which helped lots was to encourage her to get excited about the other unis again. Vlogs on you tube, revisiting uni websites, checking out local spots in the cities, looking at accommodation, and course modules. It helped her see there is life other than Oxbridge :) She now studies particle physics and cosmology at Lancaster and absolutely loves the uni and having a great time there :)

To have the drive and work ethic to apply for Oxbridge, its amazing and your should be very proud of your DC. This drive and determination will make them succeed at what ever uni they are at :)

Hi all, thanks so much for all the replies! @DahliaMacNamara, @FlyingSquid Just wanted to say I’m absolutely not trying to imply DD was a more passionate applicant or wanted this more than anyone else - all your DC truly deserved their places and I’m very happy for them. Like I said, I think it’s just frustrating feeling like your child missed out on an opportunity because of their MH (though of course, there’s every chance she could still have been redirected had her interview gone well). DD did about 4 months of prep for her admissions test but it all went to pot when she was ill mid-exam (although can’t have been that bad as Durham have offered); she also did weeks of intense interview prep (maybe overworked) and wasn’t able to perform at interview. Having said that, DD is actually fine today and is getting on with revision, not sure if she’ll request feedback or not but I don’t think she’ll reapply as it’s been a very emotionally draining process and being rejected a second time would be very difficult to deal with. Also, she applied with predicted 45/45 for the IB and was very pleased with her teacher reference so if anxiety is the problem, I’m not sure how taking a year out to solely focus on the Oxford application would resolve that .

It's a hard fact to face but the truth is that the vast majority of children that apply to Oxbridge will not get an offer.

To be in a position to apply they are by definition in the top academic cohort and extremely motivated.

In short there is something "special" about all of them (indeed many special things).

It's why every parent on this forum will have a story about how much work they've put in, how other people have noted how exceptional they are and how we, as parents know how brilliant they are.

Not all those children will be privileged in socio/economic terms or blessed with an abundance of charisma. Some will be disadvantaged in numerous ways, such as acute shyness, MH diagnosis or physical/hidden disabilities.

I've no answer for what the magic X factor is for those who get offers vs those who don't. These threads (over the years) are awash with applicants with what appear to have "super stellar" credentials (even in context of the high standards of the company they are in) and had supposedly good interviews fail to get an offer.

A poster on a previous thread said (and I paraphrase) that her child got based on GCSE and A Level grades that might come as a surprise to some posters, but when there was told that they were all selected for their potential.

Maybe that's the crux of it?

All these children are operating at a high level in academic terms, but what they are trying to unearth are those that they feel are not "just" clever and the beneficiaries of a good education, hard work and obviously self motivated.

I don't know how they identify that "potential" and I'm sure every parent on here will "see" that in their own child (and the child in themselves).

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that that whilst re-direction feels deeply personal I'm not sure it is.

It's more like a lottery, in the sense the numbers you pick are akin to the the course and college they applied for (and how many did the same), who conducted the interview, what questions were asked the various targets set for widening participation and oh yes the joys of less offers in the COVID world etc.

Any one of things not quite working out could mean the difference between an offer or not.

I'm assuming my DS will be redirected on the 25th not because he isn't Cambridge material.

Not because he isn't clever as hell (his head of maths said he was the most gifted mathematician he'd taught in 25 years).

Not because he hasn't worked hard and pushed himself re: super curricular activities

Not because he's incredibly shy and was super stressed about his interview and thinks it impacted his performance.

But because the probability of an offer despite all the above is very low and all the statements above can be attributed to many, many other applicants.

It's incredibly tough and to all who are struggling to process redirection.

@sammyjoanne Lancaster is DS's second (enthusiastic) choice and he's got a good offer from them so really pleased to hear your feedback.

Well done to everyone with offers and good luck to every student who has been redirected, I'm sure your Dc will thrive at the university they finally attend.

I've been reading the thread with interest. What I would say from an outsider @dontdointernetbut. It may not have been the interview that let your daughter down. Her A level results in a CAG year were very good but not brilliant if she's attended an Independent school and I'm guessing a view would have been taken on her Elat score (contextualised) too. Whilst excellent she would have had more support and also the time this year to prepare compared with other students who were applying for the first year and studying for their A levels. Oxford would be able to look at the data from your daughters peer group last year and the data from the cohort of 2021 and the overall application may have been marginal, enough to invite your dd for an interview noting it was the second application but not strong enough for an offer. She's obviously very driven and I really hope she finds a University to get excited about and moves on. I'm sure she will have the opportunity to apply to Oxford postgraduate if that is her ultimate goal.

Chins up to those families waiting for Cambridge news.

whiteroseredrose I got that you weren't directing your comment specifically at me but since I'd said something which could be interpreted along the lines you said, I clarified. I completely agree with your point about the pressure being the right kind of pressure, for some.

don'tdotheinternetbut I'm absolutely not being judgemental about your posts. Another poster suggested that you contacted Oxford to explain about the panic attack. My comment was in response to that.

It does stand to reason that the more that a DC throws at an Oxbridge application in terms of work, the worse they'll feel if they don't get in.

I think that this analogy is helping me (ahead of the results for us).
My children attend a school where approx 100 places are available due to exam results and approx 1500 apply for those places. With the exception of maybe the top few who might be considered exceptional, it is obvious that anyone in the top 400 or 500 would have thrived in the school and absolutely "deserved" a place (had there been enough) and would have done well enough in the exam on a different day or with a slightly different question mix etc. Many of my friends had children who scored between 150th and 400th and who have gone on to get great GCSEs in their subsequent schools. My dd's best friend was the very last to be offered a place in the school in late August - let's say she came 110th. No one could suggest that the person who came 111st would not have done just as well, had there been a space available.
In my heart I feel that DD would not have thrived as well as she did had she gone to a different school. With my head I know she would have done just as well in another school.
Similarly, should she not get a place at C, I know that on a different day and in a different scenario, she would have been offered a place and thoroughly enjoyed her time there - exactly the same for all your children who have been redirected. But I suspect that the equivalent of the top 500 applying to the school being all "worthy" of a place applies here too. They would all do well but there simply aren't enough places for everyone who would thrive.

I agree with Daydreamornot. Post A Level candidates have to demonstrate that they are “a year better” than the pre-A Level people. So their A Levels (particularly CAGs) should be top notch to be in with a chance.

When ds applied (unsuccessfully) his group were told when they assembled at Oxford that his course had 8 places and there were 40 of them there. They were all excellent candidates but most were going to be disappointed. A bit mean in the welcome talk, but also very grounding and I think it’s good to keep letting a bit of air out of the balloon.

I also think some interview practice sessions in schools/with family friends etc can sometimes do more harm than good. Oxbridge interviews are rarely a love-in telling you how wonderful you are and a dead cert. you can prepare till the cows come home but Oxbridge will find a sure-fire way of fixing on that one thing you couldn’t dream they’d ask.

It is a brutal process - the kids who get to interview have shown something that is above and beyond all the other straight A/A* students who are super motivated and passionate about their subject who also applied and didn't get an interview. The interviews process needs to differentiate between them all and so it can appear to be arbitrary.

It is not necessarily the Pick Me! applicants that get through or the best prepped or the highest grades. As a previous poster said the odds are stacked against them and it is a difficult to define X factor that makes them stand out - it is possible being really well prepped / drilled will mask that in some cases.

With regards to MH support - DD's college has been really good with extra support for her, but she still had to demonstrate that she had that "thing" during interview / practical test process in the same conditions as all the other interviewees. It may even been her difference that was the deciding factor. I am not even sure the interviewers could tell her what it was - she really didn't get into her flow or demonstrate a rounded model student or having done a model interview.

I read this quote randomly yesterday, I had heard the first part many times but the second seems quite poignant at the moment.

When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.

Alexander Graham Bell

Something that is coming out of this thread to me is that I wonder if they should release the ELAT results etc after the offers are made/not made; people with excellent results will quite naturally raise their optimism about receiving an offer, and people with not good results (eg my dd who had a car crash and got a genuinely awful mark) have a miserable 24hrs, convinced they have not got in, and then receive an offer very surprisingly.

I reckon if those results came out after the ‘decision’, then people wouldn’t have had their expectations shaped by those results.

To be fair it's only 24hrs Bilberry. That's probably do-able. Medicine aptitude tests come out ahead of interviews, never mind offers.

Just to add, I would be fascinated to know how they use contextualisation; I wonder if it’s a little like the flight paths beloved of the DfE, where you have a projection for ‘how should someone do in a school like this?’ - so ‘what would I be expecting from this candidate, having attended this school, been at this stage in their education etc’, and then look at whether they are exceeding expectations?

So if you are at a school with a track record of getting people through admissions tests with super-high marks, many students getting multiple A*s at GCSE and then at A Level, and months of support with personal statement crafting and interview practice, then they would be justified in expecting more than from someone who is at a comprehensive where the application may be done entirely independently by the student, and the focus school-wide is not so much on getting the 8s and 9s at GCSE, but 4s and 5s.

It’s a different scenario with medicine though, because the scores in BMAT and UKCAT will affect where you apply, because different medical schools use the results differently, along with GCSE results. And pretty well every single university uses one of those results in their selection process, so you really do need to choose carefully, taking those results into account.

And I think the 24hrs is actually worse - it’s all part of that run-up to D-day, whereas if it’s months before, it’s not part of that ‘final approach’.

On tsr Someone has posted a statement from Keble on English admissions. In the last para they state most strongly that interview is not a dealbreaker. Clearly they have a lot of people saying they did not do themselves justice/it wasn’t fair etc etc.

Interestingly they say they look for “anomalies in the ELAT” - I wonder what that means?!

Not correct with Oxford Bilberry. Thus DS1 knew his score in November, after application and before interview. That's still how it works now.