Oxford Cambridge 2021 Thread 6

[Chocomel]

Hopefully this is in the right place?

@bendmeoverbackwards

If they’re making fewer offers this year, what happens if a number of students turn their offers down and they are left with spaces to fill?

They will presumably make summer pool offers. For the contextual students who just miss..

Presumably they have an idea roughly how many offers are rejected usually so can take that into account. In the case of Cambridge, I'd imagine if they do end up with any spare places they'll use their new system of offering them to applicants with disadvantage markers who narrowly missed an offer but who have achieved standard offer grades.

Bend - I'm trying to sell the idea of an interesting intercalation year too. As @chopc mentioned, medics will all graduate and have the same starting point in their careers. I know the theory that an Oxford course isn't necessarily best, but it still suits many studious dc.

I think where it is slightly different for medical students is the fact it is such a long drawn out process. An early offer would have been such a relief and now the pressure is on favourable outcomes from the (dwindling) options. Her first words to me yesterday were 'what if I don't get any offers', which is a small but real possibility for medical applicants.

Anyway, I'm confident she will get something somewhere.... but it will be a worrying few months.

So I presume that if dd has had a no from Oxford that is definitely it?

@Millylovespuddles sorry to hear your DD’s news, sounds really tough for medicine. Fingers crossed she will get some offers in soon.

I think they will make fewer offers, but maybe there is slightly more confidence in grades accuracy this year too?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55641364

... or is that just naive?

Her first words to me yesterday were 'what if I don't get any offers', which is a small but real possibility for medical applicants.

Hopefully this won't happen to her, but yes, it isn't uncommon for quite a few medic and vet students not to get any. Some will take an alternative - either their 5th choice or something through clearing - or they'll have a year off, try to get more experience and reapply - I think generally with high success rate.
A matter of fact discussion of plan B seems eminently sensible.

[quote LaundryFairy]Just to add more uncertainty to the lives of young people, Gavin Williamson has just said that students may have to sit "external set papers" whatever the hell that means.

www.standard.co.uk/news/education/students-exams-teacherdetermined-grades-gavin-williamson-b871301.html[/quote]
So, not exams, but...exams? I can't help feeling this is messing up admissions processes as much as students' heads. Do universities limit their offers on the basis that the vast majority will meet them? Would Oxford have given out more offers on this basis?

A big FUCKSAKE to all of it.

Love this in the sub-article on Naim’s BBC link which finally asks the million-dollar question - “Gavin Williamson: How has he survived?....”

“ Either way his character seems to intrigue the Googling public, because among the most common searches alongside "Gavin Williamson" is "Frank Spencer", the 1970s sit-com character who destroyed everything he tried his hardest to put right.”

I can't see how the current lack of transparency over A Levels isn't impacting Uni admissions policies.

It's understandable that they need to be cautious given what happened last year and the utter lack of planning/uncertainty now.

I'm really very cross about it. GW is an absolute disgrace.

I'm guessing no one else wants the job?

This is absolutely fucking ridiculous isn't it? Could GW mess these poor kids round any more?

suddenly feeling really deflated having read the post saying how C will certainly have a lot less places this year added to the fact that many will be given to peole from last year who delayed. DD has applied for English. She said that there are generally only 10 places up for grabs. Suddenly i feel she has no chance as does she... :0(

Hi all,
Sorry to hear that some of you are struggling with illness on top of all this- it’s such a bad year to contend with and you all have my sympathy & best wishes.
Thanks @bendmeoverbackwards I myself am feeling a bit more positive about trying to get dd to move forward, more so than yesterday which was a very bad day where I couldn’t think about anything except the hurt for my dd & us all. I am trying to suggest watching vlogs on other choices and so forth but I am afraid I’m not getting anywhere today. She is still in a bad way, as in not talking and very insular, almost unreachable so I’m not sure quite what to do. I will allow a bit of a wallow today I think but if I don’t see much improvement by tomorrow then I might have to prise a chat out of her. One thing I do feel a bit of today actually is anger. I’m quite pissed off with Oxford for not noticing her panic attack & offering to re-schedule the interview or even showing a bit more compassion. I had called the college before our application To check it’s policy on MH issues and I had a lovely chat with a woman who assured me that we should apply & that there was no prejudic against any candidates. My dd has diagnosed anxiety & panic disorder & we put this on UCAS application & sent a letter from doctors to confirm. They invited her for an interview so surely they would’ve seen all of the evidence about MH issues? After reading a similar story on here, I think @mikeandike dd also had a similar thing and was also redirected after interviews, I’m wondering if they just offer interviews to those students so as not to be held accountable for rejecting outright..? My dd attacks can come out of the blue & she knows how to deal with them (tell somebody what is happening, take herself out of situation for 5 mins, breath & talk herself out of it, then back and carry on.) Her college knows about this issue & it’s never been a problem, she just excuses herself if & when it happens in a lesson. I think the fact that she was in an important interview she felt that she couldn’t tell them that she needed this & so the panic attack escalated. She felt bad on the morning of first interview & I offered to call or email to see if we could reschedule but she insisted that she would go ahead & couldn’t cancel at short notice. Her second interview was fine & I know that the first has definitely disadvantaged her. I just wonder why she didn’t get sent for another after that if they had an issue..? Maybe they didn’t even realise she was having a panic attack as she didn’t mention it.
I’m just a bit miffed as how they could’ve put her through that for 25 mins when it must’ve been obvious (if they have experience of that kind of thing) and why they didn’t say, let’s take 10 mins here to regather or something.. sorry once again for the rant but I’m thinking about it today a lot and it’s so unfair that she didn’t get to give it a fair go. 🤬
I’m wondering now if I should call oxford and explain & ask for some closure on it??

On another point, we are also waiting on Durham though dd is unsure about it anyway. She randomly picked unis that she thought she should (2 where other friends have applied & 2 randoms for no reason) as she didn’t think further than oxford 😩
Now we are stuck with places she’s never been to, not motivated by & really doesn’t care either way if she gets in or not as they aren’t oxford. It’s going to be a long road ahead of us for sure to the right place for her as she has only had sights on the one that is now completely off the table.

I heard that some of the top unis DONT take kindly to O/C applicants either as they don’t want to be a second best choice so will offer to most who do pick them first instead, I think Durham is in that bracket along with Kings & UCL .. who knows.. this whole application process this year is a bit of a mess in my view tbh..

The issue is for Oxbridge is that they had to ask postgrads who would usually live in to move out to allow for the oversubscription last year. Traditionally they would expect a certain amount to not meet the grades but last year most did. So again without the "thinning out" that exams do they can't place themselves in the same position. I suspect some of the other top unis will also now wait until after the consultation period has been completed and reported on. There appears not to have been the sudden flurry of day after offers from Durham and the like.

Durham does consider the applications and is one of the unis that does like to look at extra curricular (especially if playing sport at a high level). But yes, still a certain amount of mystery why on paper similars candidates A B and C at the same school get their offers/rejections at vastly different times. It would be better if their criteria was published much in the same way Bristol do.

Sorry to hear of redirections. DS was redirected last year as was his friend. DS's friend reapplied and has been successful this time round and with grades in hand will be in.

DS is off to Bristol in September having decided he really didn't like lockdown/remote learning as experienced for the remainder of his y13 after March lockdown and we think Bristol will suit him and his nature and he has managed some limited travelling with something positive on the horizon too.

He got over the redirection pretty much instantly (quicker than me at least) and at some point you may all be feeling much better than you probably do at the moment.

Dontdointernetbut - it is a complete myth re the other unis not wanting the other O/C applicants. Around 20,000 apply to Oxford and 20,000 to Cambridge with only about 7,000 getting places. They will not turn away 33,000 highly able students. I hope that at least will put your mind at rest.

My reply above crossposted with your last post. I was very much in the fortunate position that we had the advantage of open days and DS was very much in love with Bristol prior to having been rejected by Oxford and indeed had all 4 of his other offers by the 7th October having submitted 26 September. Thus when the offer was not forthcoming he immediately accepted his Bristol offer and started googling halls, nightclubs and what bands were supposed to be playing there (remember those days!)

Just catching up. It’s all a bit of a rollercoaster. Commiserations to those redirected and finding it really hard.
And I hope those sick relatives respond appropriately to treatment and make good recovery. It’s all anyone needs on top of everything else.
I actually feel sick in my tummy as I read and wait for the 25th. DS admitted last night, that he is beginning to feel anxious about it all, after the unexpected rejections in his school yesterday. He knows it’s a tough year, but I think his best friend not getting into O, just got reality to set in.
He trying to focus on mocks this week, which is quite full on, having been compressed into 1 week.
What I don’t understand is why oxbridge did not revise and publish the actual places available taking into consideration the aftermath of last year’s events. I think this may have helped manage expectations.
Oh!!! Don’t get me started on GW

And we still don’t know what’s happening with IB. Apparently they cancelled really late last year.

Some universities are simply random. DD had an offer from Durham very soon after applying, but has yet to hear from Bristol, and has consequently taken against them as she knows they have issued a number of offers to early candidates already. None of the others were put off by the fact that she'd obviously submitted her application in time for the Oxbridge deadline, so I wouldn't get too hung up on that score.
I've just had a look at DD's department's admissions process summary. I looked at their statement of the kind of things they look for in successful applications, and Christ! If I had seen any of that before I might have discouraged her altogether. It is terrifying. Luckily DD has far more grit than I do, and has duly proved that Mum Knows Nothing, but our DC have been through so much. It's a brutal process, really.

Dahlia i'm curious as to what sort of things are they looking for in successful applications?......

I heard that some of the top unis DONT take kindly to O/C applicants either as they don’t want to be a second best choice so will offer to most who do pick them first instead, I think Durham is in that bracket along with Kings & UCL .. who knows.. this whole application process this year is a bit of a mess in my view tbh.

@dontdointernetbut that is simply untrue. Is this some early entry thing? Just because a student has their UCAS form in before 15th October does not necessarily mean that they have applied to Oxbridge. Universities cannot see anything other than you applying to them, the cannot see your other choices at all. How would they know they were "second"?

Ds has offers from all 4 universities (waiting on C) including Durham. It is well known that certain subjects come out later on offers, I don't pay huge attention to it because it is not a subject my Ds is studying so I am thinking English and History applicants. Why would a university turn down academically gifted and motivated students? Potentially thousands of them? The top universities have high entry grades, ergo a lot of students will take a punt at Oxbridge. It is one line on a 5 line application to university.

I hope your DD feels hopeful with researching the other universities.

Re GW and the whole exam, no exam, well some exams, my head is spinning.

@beethecrackon24995

Dahlia i'm curious as to what sort of things are they looking for in successful applications?......

It's probably best if you look at the 20-21 admissions summary for the relevant department.

@dontdointernetbut Really feel for your DD! Sending her big hugs .

My daughter was absolutely adamant after her interview that she wasn’t getting in - she’s usually amazing at speaking but apparently her brain went foggy and she kept stumbling over her words . Really sad for her - I think it’s tough when they know for a fact that they are capable of so much more but they haven’t been able to demonstrate that to the tutors, who, let’s be honest, only see them for a very short amount of time. Not that she thinks she should have gotten in(!) but if she had truly felt like she’d performed to the best of her ability, I think the decision would’ve been much easier to swallow. We arranged a mock interview for her prior to the real thing with an Oxford graduate who told her she was the best candidate for her course they’d come across in many years and following the decision, several of her teachers contacted me and were apparently utterly shocked at the ‘randomness’ of the decisions. It just goes to show that these decisions can never be predicted - it’s so incredibly difficult to gain a place and there are so many arbitrary factors that come into play which we’ll never understand but I really do think it’s a character-building experience.
Realistically, the only people who know our DC well enough to truly understand how intelligent they are are ourselves and their teachers so it’s frustrating when they aren’t able to convey that but at the end of the day, though it might not feel like it now, there are so many other paths that your DD now has available to her which wouldn’t be on offer at Oxford (DD loves the idea of a year abroad for example). I really do think DD’s interview performance let her down and I am entirely convinced it was due to her anxiety not ability but she’s now utterly determined to prove that they made a mistake and has bounced back surprisingly quickly. I really hope that your DD feels the same soon . They’re amazing and they’ll do amazingly wherever they end up (though I know saying that doesn’t help at all at the moment).

In all honesty, if they weren’t able to recognise her panic attack during the interview, I’d have my own doubts about how good they would be at dealing with her MH issues - I’d worry that once she got there, research would be prioritised over students, so I would take some comfort in the fact that hopefully she’ll now end up somewhere with better pastoral care and somewhere with a slightly more relaxed atmosphere .

Regarding panicking in an interview - the thing is very few candidates feel they’ve done themselves justice and I suppose they can’t countenance giving some people a second chance; then they would have to give everyone a second chance!

And real tutorials are quite scary. Ds had an essay per week and every week was grilled - grilled - on it. He would always call afterwards and some weeks he was buoyant and had enjoyed himself, and other weeks he was very down as he had been savaged . And there’s nowhere to hide! It’s not like school where every point someone makes is praised - quite the opposite seems to happen. Also you have different professors etc for different areas, so there’s no getting used to one or two particular academics.

@IrmaFayLear No, I can understand that and I think I already made a point upthread about how those who really struggled to perform under pressure (though actually that’s clearly not always the case as our DC have all clearly done very well in exams etc) might be better suited to somewhere less intense. I do think it’s also important to note though that PP and I aren’t talking about children who underperform a bit due to nerves, we’re talking about DC who have a genuine MH condition which unfortunately holds them back from achieving their full potential sometimes.

The implication that these children shouldn’t apply for Oxford because they might struggle to cope with the pressure is rather upsetting - if the system is truly a meritocratic one, then why should they be placed at a disadvantage? It does seem to me that @dontdointernetbut’s DC’s panic attack was ignored by her interviewers and she was left to struggle alone .

My DD received her redirection and subsequently went straight into 4 back-to-back mock exams so she’s clearly not looking for somewhere to ‘hide’! I think powering through interviews and tests while vomiting/having a massive panic attack and still completing it shows an awful lot of resilience and I’m very proud of our DC!

Another delurker. Very hard for them waiting on the 25 now that the Oxford news is out. Another modern languages dc here.From the threads before this it feels like there are more mumsnet dc going for C than O. Or maybe that is just by my lurking and selective reading. The student room had a lot of MML applicants for C. This limbo is horrible but dc pretty much resigned to no place as after poor first interview did not manage to turn it around. As posters have said it is that feeling that they just did not show their best side in two x 20 mins that causes the upset. Any other MML lurkers? From college to college the assessment seems to vary so much. Dc definitely felt had prepared the wrong sort of thing but would have enjoyed the style of questioning at a different college. In one they were not even asked to speak in the language though maybe that isn't true as was on TSR. Very hard to focus on mocks and assessments too.