Oxford Cambridge 2021 Thread 6

[Chocomel]

Hopefully this is in the right place?

The terms look entirely legal to me and it's apparent that a lawyer has checked them over.

It's also clear that the 'supporting to another institution' clause is to give the student the option of moving (with support from Cambridge to give another application some oomph) rather than being something over which a student has no choice.

Cambridge say they will only ‘try to offer you one of the following options’.

UCAS would regard a conditional offer as legally binding, no matter what ‘small print’ a university has issued; it is entirely unreasonable if someone has achieved the grades in their offer for them not to be admitted, even if they are helped to find another university.

It's quite large print Bilberry, right up at the top of the terms and issued in exceptional times but I do have some doubts (if it went to court) about how far numbers this year were outside Cambridge's 'reasonable control'. Cambridge is covering itself against an as yet unknown formula for grades; the response would be that they could have pulled back on numbers even further. To be fair, the offer decisions were made before the summer exams were cancelled but as against that the uni and colleges did give themselves quite a bit of time ahead of sending out offers to tweak numbers if they saw trouble brewing. Doing this is clearly its preferred option and gives more flexibility.

@FlyingSquid - I tell the dcs that I have been self-catering now for over 30 years and so to have three years with someone plonking a dinner in front of you is a small window in your life!

Plus the dinners are very sociable and an experience. Also in the second year there is in most places the option to go for a shared house (still university-owned). Ds had no facilities for 3 years, but one year his room was above McDonald’s

Legally, a university can add conditions to offers providing the conditions are in the t&cs at the time the student accepts the offer.

The terms would still need to pass the fairness test I'd have thought.

Which this one does.

Imagine being that student who, during a pandemic, manages to secure a place at Cambridge then has it withdrawn. That would be very tough.

It I think all they’re saying is that if a student doesn’t wish to defer/accept another college, then C will help them to get in elsewhere.

And an offer of a place does not mean a guarantee of a place if you fail to meet the grades. Last year clearly was a one off.

It wouldn't be withdrawn until all the options of deferring/ moving college/ switching course have been ruled out.

I am speaking about students who meet the grades.

If Cambridge has over offered massively then that's different (and that would clearly be within Cambridge's reasonable control) but I would assume that they've been cautious in their offers and this is just to mop up any problems in the few cases where numbers don't compute at any given college without having a detrimental impact to teaching/ living.

Thanks for wise words, IrmaFayLear! I think she may be unduly worried by DS (who is autistic) telling her of all the times he couldn’t stand the noise in his catered halls elsewhere.

UnityUnited Cambridge says it will dish out places on a fair formula so that will either be on admission scores or according to grades achieved - so any student asked to defer etc will be the bottom of the tree, on whatever ranking basis Cambridge uses.

@Chilldonaldchill - I'm getting excited for DD although she seems relatively chilled about it all. I suppose she is in the throes of history coursework final deadlines so is totally absorbed by that. I'm also having imposter syndrome feelings for her - especially hearing about the outstanding candidates who were unsuccessful. Still wonder 'why her?' and then feeling bad that I doubt her capabilities. I'm hoping getting the grades isn't a stumbling block. She would be pretty mad even if she just met her offer of 3 x A as she is predicted 3 x A star and definitely on track to achieve it.
@FlyingSquid I understand your daughter's feelings about her college. DD too chose a more modern college for the exact same reasons that she loves to cook and most of the old pretty colleges are sadly lacking in the kitchen department. Chopping veg or baking is definitely a de-stressing mechanism.
Anyone planning to try and visit at some point? I was hoping a day trip over the Easter holidays (lockdown permitting 🤞)- even if just to walk around the city and soak it all up. Was definitely hoping to take a visit to some of her other choices to decide on an insurance (and again only to get a flavour of the city or campus) so it just depends at what point we are allowed to get out and about again.

Ok but I assume they still passed the threshold they needed to get in?

Arguably so did others who ended up without a place because of the bulge left over from last year.

But the difference if those people weren’t offer a place so didn’t have the experience of being offered a place then have it taken away. It just seems like a tough process for a young person to go through.

Perhaps I'm a hard nut then UnityUnited because it seems to me that any place at Cambridge for my course is a pretty good option regardless of college and possibly even if deferred. Indeed deferred might be a gift to some students. I expect they'd ask for volunteers for deferral first in any event. Changing course is a bit more moot but I should think would only be offered to a weeny number if any and only on very proximate courses.

I suppose you are right. Certainly if it was my dc I would tell them to be practical and take what’s offered. However, I am aware a lot of posters have dc who became incredibly attached to certain outcomes and don’t cope well with the prospect of that changing. I am thinking about those dc I suppose.

I don't think moving college is unreasonable.
I don't think deferring is a massive problem.

I think moving course is problematic.

I think being told 'we will support you to move to another university' is incredibly problematic and wouldn't stand up in any sort of legal process. They have actually disadvantaged you in terms of accessing accommodation, or having a choice about what/where you study. They have had full warning that this year will be another unusual year, and should have offered accordingly, so that over-filling places was not going to be an issue.

Schools have to do that for 6th forms.

I'd strongly advise my DC to be pragmatic too UU.

Deferral will be the go to option Bilberry and numbers will be very small, I'm sure.