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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Oxford Cambridge 2021 Thread 6

999 replies

Chocomel · 12/01/2021 10:25

Hopefully this is in the right place?

OP posts:
sammyjoanne · 14/01/2021 09:46

@DeRigueurMortis thats great your DS has Lancaster down. Is that his second choice after Cambridge? I hope your DS does get to Cambridge, but if not, Lancaster has gained a fine student if hes really good at Maths.
What degree has he applied for at Lancaster? I know the math lecturers that do the physics degree have been excellent. The lectures overall have been so so good. One chap at the end of the lecturer plays the ukelele to entertain the students on line, and another holds physics and maths quizzes on kahoot. Learning on line hasnt been easy, but they really have had the students engaged there, :)

Chilldonaldchill · 14/01/2021 09:47

@IrmaFayLear

On tsr Someone has posted a statement from Keble on English admissions. In the last para they state most strongly that interview is not a dealbreaker. Clearly they have a lot of people saying they did not do themselves justice/it wasn’t fair etc etc.

Interestingly they say they look for “anomalies in the ELAT” - I wonder what that means?!

I don't know what it means but I have seen some posts on tsr which I find interesting. For example there was a post from a prospective English student which said something like "if it had went better". I know that people can have lots of grammatical errors and typos on social media (as I'm sure I have on here!) but that struck me as a very bizarre mistake for a would-be English student. Could they be looking at things like that and comparing it to the submitted written work? (I don't know what the ELAT involves so could be totally wrong).
BilberryBaggins · 14/01/2021 09:49

@goodbyestranger

Not correct with Oxford Bilberry. Thus DS1 knew his score in November, after application and before interview. That's still how it works now.
There’s an earlier sitting for the BMAT I think though? In August, with results out in September. So although you’re right that in the scenario you describe, the results are post-application, pre-interview, you have the opportunity to get the results pre-application if you do the exam in the August. It’s certainly worth doing that if you are thinking of applying to one of the other medical courses that uses BMAT, to ensure that you are not wasting a choice when you would be better served going for UKCAT universities, if you’ve done better on that test. It’s so hard to get a medical offer that you seem to need to be quite strategic, and find those places that play to your strengths.

And I think UKCAT you get the results really quickly?

goodbyestranger · 14/01/2021 09:53

I assume they simply mean a mismatch between ELAT score and other parts of the application.

BilberryBaggins · 14/01/2021 09:53

ChilldonaldChill - I wonder if they mean that if someone has an ELAT score that doesn’t match with the other bits of their application, then they might go back to the paper and see why. So if someone has a freakishly low score, it could be that they just missed the mark, but you can see that with a little bit of direction they would be on track and scoring highly? Rather than just taking it as a number and not looking into it further.

That was how I read the statement from Keble anyway.

WarmAndco3y · 14/01/2021 09:56

@SeasonFinale

In response to the PP who asked why Oxford did not publish how many offers it would make beforehand is because the exams were only cancelled last week. Therefore they did not know until then that their "thinning" out down to the number required by failure to meet the grades would not be happening once again. Thus, they do not want to be overstretched again so have made offers closer to the usual numbers knowing that indeed with teacher assessed grades there is less likelihood of offers being missed. Cambridge has announced this because they have the luxury of the extra 2 weeks.

Please do remember that most applicants are all perfect on paper including my rejected DS with his 3 x A*, decent supra-curricular and so on. At his super selective school there are always some surprises either no interview, no offer and sometimes an offer for someone the school may consider not as good a candidate as an offer holder in the same situation.

The important thing now is to either take a break and make a decision or throw enthusiasm into the choice they do make. Good luck to anyone who does do it all again. Part of me wished DS did (especially as his friend who did now has an offer) but he didn't want to and I respect his decision.

Wishing you all well. I know from experience the "pain" goes away.

I’m not sure if this was referring to my post. To clarify, what I meant is publishing the actual numbers of places still available for this year’s cohort, in light of some of the places already taken up by last year’s. This would help manage expectations.

@dontdointernetbut and @mikeandike I wish your DC the best, it really is something that people not directly affected sometimes can’t fully comprehend. Give it time dontdo...... you and your DD need more time to walk through this, the time will come when you’ll be able to have a conversation with DD about other strong options.Flowers
I honestly don’t know how DS will take a redirection from C. He has 2 good offers from Nottingham and KCL, but neither is his second choice

goodbyestranger · 14/01/2021 09:58

Bilberry I was talking Oxford specific, given the thread. Oxford doesn't allow early entry for the BMAT so it's always been and remains the case that applicants apply blind, sit the BMAT at the start of November, get their results two to three weeks later, get called for interview (or not) about ten days after that and interview about ten days after that. So what I said holds good.

Hoghgyni · 14/01/2021 10:11

DeRigueurMortis I think you were trying to quote me when I said many weeks ago that her cohort were told that their previous exam results didn't matter, because they had all been selected for their potential. Funnily enough, we were discussing "passion" for subjects over Christmas. She said she thought you would be considered a bit weird if you wandered around the college, scratching your beard, only discussing your subject in an animated way! There are obviously many very intelligent people there, but many, many more equally intelligent people don't receive an offer. DD was redirected by Edinburgh on her 18th birthday, after receiving her offer from Oxford. She felt exactly the same emotions as many of you are describing for your DC.

BilberryBaggins · 14/01/2021 10:15

@goodbyestranger

Bilberry I was talking Oxford specific, given the thread. Oxford doesn't allow early entry for the BMAT so it's always been and remains the case that applicants apply blind, sit the BMAT at the start of November, get their results two to three weeks later, get called for interview (or not) about ten days after that and interview about ten days after that. So what I said holds good.
Yes, that is true (though I didn't know that about Oxford) - Cambridge allow for you to take the earlier sitting.
LoonvanBoon · 14/01/2021 10:15

Just want to add to the point lots of people have made that there will inevitably be a degree of randomness and luck in a process like this, given the strength of all the candidates.

I know that there's really nothing separating my sons in terms of academic ability. As identical twins, they've naturally gone out of their way to assert their individuality, going to different 6th forms (DT1 moved to a large 6th form in nearby city; DT2 stayed put at small 6th form of their catchment area comp.) and choosing different A level subjects.

But the fact is they've got virtually identical GCSEs, predicted grades, impressive academic records all the way through, like the children of everyone else here. The only difference really was that DT1, who didn't get an offer, was much keener and had done more preparation, as well as more supra-curricular work.

So I guess on the day DT2, despite being a bit more socially awkward at times than DT1, just did a bit better in interview, or was up against marginally less strong competition. Who knows - but it's inevitable that sometimes the luck will be in your favour and sometimes against. In our case, it was both; or doubly against, depending on POV, as it was DT1 who really wanted to go!

He's fine 2 days on, anyway. Would very much like to hear from Durham, as some of his friends already have offers (possibly contextual ones), but not agonizing over the fact that his brother got an offer and he didn't. If anything that underlines the closeness of the margins for him and makes it easier to take.

I, otoh, spent yesterday (silently, of course) cursing the way the cookie crumbled for us and feeling really sad for DT1. I know he'd have loved it at Oxford and really benefited from the teaching style. But I also know he'll be happy elsewhere.

DT2 is more of a worry, as I explained the other day. At the moment we've left it at the 'plenty of time to make a decision' stage and told him he doesn't need to justify his ambivalent feelings to anyone else. He's been stressing about what to say to teachers, friends who didn't get in, etc., so we've suggested just saying he hasn't made his mind up yet.

Re the randomness factor again, I honestly think what might have helped DT2 at interview is that his school completely fucked up the arrangements for him - they'd promised him a room and laptop - and neither were available, so 5 minutes before the interview he was racing around trying to find senior teachers or IT support staff and was logged in and ready to go with about 30 seconds to spare. He'd been feeling very negative about the interview but then had no time to be nervous and said 'it wasn't too bad, actually'.

DT1 had about an hour staring at his unseen poem and said he did get very nervous. Sometimes he talks too quickly out of nerves / excitement. Could well be that. He doesn't think atm that he'll ask for feedback. He knows he did pretty well in the ELAT and suspects they'll just say something diplomatic anyway, rather than telling him if his interviews were poor!

I loved Oxford and stayed to do an M.Phil. Met loads of people then who had gone elsewhere for first degrees, loved their courses and done exceptionally well. If any of our redirected children want to pursue study at that level Oxford is always an option later on.

goodbyestranger · 14/01/2021 10:26

Cambridge does now Bilberry but Oxford still doesn't. Which brings us back to the point I made earlier :) (not even a very profound one....)

FlyingSquid · 14/01/2021 10:33

Completely fucking up the arrangements might indeed be the key to success! DD nearly missed the MLAT as there were two candidates with similar (common) names and she was directed to the wrong hall, realized she had the wrong paper and had to RUN to reach the right one in time.

Then she had connectivity problems and camera failure half an hour before her interview, and finally she knocked her glass of water over herself with about a minute to go.

IrmaFayLear · 14/01/2021 10:34

I think it’s very, very important when giving Oxbridge a second go that the applicant is content with a second choice and knows that the odds are little more in their favour than the previous time (especially this last round when extra students with great CAGs applied post a level).

Btw - anyone had the sour grapes yet?! With ds I had the, “Is that one of those new colleges on the outskirts?” And, “They make a real effort to let in state school pupils now.” Not that I go and tell anybody. No grandparents Sad I told dsis, who said, “How did they do it this year? Just draw people out of a hat?”

BilberryBaggins · 14/01/2021 10:44

lol goodbyestranger.

I think I disagree with Oxford insisting on the November sitting; this is after you have to have made your choices, and it is so helpful for medicine to know exactly what marks you have before making a decision - the requirement to sit it in November therefore is impacting on your other applications as well (because I think medicine also has the early UCAS submission date).

I still think the releasing of the results the day before offers day is needlessly cruel though - all it can do is i) raise hopes ii) give you a bad 24hrs or iii) not give you any real info at all - releasing the results alongside the offers would be much less stress all round, and it's not a process without stress!!!

BilberryBaggins · 14/01/2021 10:44

(Just to clarify, I am disagreeing with the principle of Oxford doing that, not whether or not they do it or not!!!).

Millylovespuddles · 14/01/2021 10:48

In light of my DD's re-direction, I have found the posts on this thread very comforting. There are so many of us in the same boat, and it is clear that we all have talented, motivated and very able children who we all thoroughly feel deserved a place.
As someone said unthread, the randomness of the procedure is always going to be a mystery, and at the end of the day, an element of luck plays its part.

I will always question the fact that DD's school was no help whatsoever. Well-known feeder schools will have the benefit of how the system really works, and probably graduate teachers with first-hand experience. At DD's school there have been only 2 successful Oxbridge applicants in the past 8 years, so it was a up to her to track down people for advice and assistance. And she did - getting as much prior knowledge and and interview assistance as possible.
She felt her interviews went well, but obviously didn't just have the x-factor.

LoonvanBoon · 14/01/2021 10:51

flyingsquid Grin

DahliaMacNamara · 14/01/2021 10:54

Draw people out of a hat! What a fucking liberty, Irma. No, no sour grapes yet, though I don't actually know any parents of fellow applicants, from any year - DD's school on average only sends one or two a year to Oxbridge, and successful applicants tend to be from fancier neighbourhoods than mine.

Millylovespuddles · 14/01/2021 10:55

Irma - lol- no sour grapes from DD, but DH insists applications from our region of the UK will never be seen on a level footing! (New students last year made up 0.8% of the intake...)

goodbyestranger · 14/01/2021 10:56

FlyingSquid DD2 had somehow got the wrong day for her HAT so it was a total surprise to her when she was shunted off to the school hall to take it. Then she had her bag nicked on Radcliffe Square mid way through the interview process and spent the evening at the police station (the bag had important stuff in: cigarettes, phone and passport, in that order) and then failed to sleep a wink. I think there may be something in this theory. With DS3 I crashed the car taking him up the night before his interview so he arrived at 11pm and then (naturally) was allocated the first interview in the morning without having had the chance to do more than glance at the thirty page source which had been sent the day before (the plan was to read it in the car then the evening. Not so easy waiting in a ditch for the AA to arrive).

IrmaFayLear · 14/01/2021 10:58

No, I don’t know any parents of applicants. It’s family members who have made less than enthusiastic comments Sad

DahliaMacNamara · 14/01/2021 11:13

@IrmaFayLear

No, I don’t know any parents of applicants. It’s family members who have made less than enthusiastic comments Sad
Bloody hell, that's horrible. If mine were like that and we weren't in the middle of a pandemic, I might have to resort to my childhood and pull their hair out, at least a little bit.
JulesJules · 14/01/2021 11:39

Re: deferred places @WarmAndCo3y - Oxford have published these, I put the link on a previous thread, will see if I can find it again. Deferred places account for 2% of the total.

JulesJules · 14/01/2021 11:53

www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/deferrals Oxford deferrals.

I had a few negative comments when D1 got in last year - a neighbour told me it was because she was a girl and boys were really disadvantaged (a friend of hers son did not get in) and someone at work said it was now really biased in favour of state schools which must have helped my D who was at a state school in the NE.

(I think it's 60 odd % state school entry, and D1 is the only one in her household 😃)

mikeandike · 14/01/2021 11:54

@Millylovespuddles Hope your DD is doing okay! Anyone fancy making a redirected thread so that we can discuss how they’re all doing without taking away from the excitement of those with offers? I would make it but I’m not sure how Grin.

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