Medicine: what’s better, Oxford or Cambridge?

[AsPerMyLastEmail]

DS wants to study medicine. For certain reasons beyond academics & reputation, he and I think Oxford or Cambridge may be a good fit for him. He’s Year 11 now so will be doing proper research nearer the time. Out of idle curiosity, I’d appreciate thoughts on which of the two is better for medicine. With the obvious caveat that ‘better’ is partly subjective.

Covid-19 has spurred a record number of medical school applications in the USA this fall – an 18% increase over last year in what is known as the Fauci Effect, named after Dr Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the USA.

I should think this phenomenon is not limited to the USA alone but worldwide. Interest in the medical profession is one thing but provisions, or the lack of it, for training such students is another. It’s not like creating extra seats in a humanities course in any ole university when this can be done in a stroke. . .

Coming to this thread late and I’ve only very quickly skimmed through the various pages and picking out some glaring points which I thought I’d comment.

First off, to the OP - I think you’ve tried very hard beating around the bush but to an old dog like me, I need some convincing. I’d just like to know what is it that is so exclusive to Oxbridge medical schools that you can find none of the 30-plus other schools in the UK that can offer the same to you or your DS?

Next, has it ever occurred to you that the best medical students don’t go to Oxford or Cambridge? A quick browse through the annual UK Foundation Programme (UKFP) statistics in recent years (for F1 doctors) will attest to that.

It’s quite amazing that people will check on a doctor’s medical school/qualification when the doctor is deemed to be “negligent”. Question is, who are we to deem the said doctor to be “negligent”? Are we as non-medics better qualified to say this and that doctor is not up to scratch? And try as I did, I cannot find a doctor’s medical school in the doctor’s hospital website.

But if you @Powercut really want to know where a doctor trained, the GMC Register is the place to head to - not their hospital website. Try it to find, for example, where your GP trained in their younger days. It tells you the year they qualified as well as the medical school (home or abroad) they’d gone to.

The other thing is that you don’t see any Oxbridge-trained medics showing up as “negligent” or not up to scratch. That’s simply because Oxbridge-trained medics don’t roll up their sleeves and dive into the deep end – they are more at home sitting in a comfortable lab researching this and the other.

And how anyone can say staying fairly close to your university for the whole duration of your medical training is a “major advantage” is beyond me. Presumably they will only be seeing and treating everyone from the same area coming in with their common coughs and colds!

In comes someone with (say) Ebola for the first time, and you’ll freak out! Not with London-trained medics though as their London schools make it a top selling point that their schools and hospitals are situated right smack in the middle of a demography of at least 150 nationalities from around the world with each coming in with their peculiar illnesses. This is how you want to be trained as a doctor!

@peteneras sorry but that made me laugh. There are major hospitals in all regions, with specialist centres. Doing everything that happens in London. And I'm not sure if you'd noticed but the UK has a diverse population in all cities. London is not some centre of excellence and everywhere else is useless. I am a Londoner born and bred but I can see that other places offer a much better quality of life. As said before, I think Highlands and Islands sounds the most amazing experience for a young doctor. Van Tam is at Nottingham Uni. He's done ok not being in London.

peteneras lawyers tend to be able to say that a doctor is negligent when a doctor had been found to be negligent by a court of law.

Needmoresleep as far as I recall DS said the minimum number of points to get an F1 post in his deanery was in excess of 80. So yes, very high. Plenty of Oxbridge medics want to go down to London to be with their friends from uni (non medic friends). There's always been a lemming like move towards London from certain unis though, as I'm sure you know, to all the usual suspects of employers: City law firms, investment banks, the big accountancy and management consultancy firms, the Civil Service etc etc. Perfectly healthy and natural to want to go to London to have a decent social life along with an interesting job. For medics wanting to go to either of the two North London deaneries you just need to score a high number of points. That said, I completely agree that focussing on amassing points isn't the way to go about it.

mumsneedwine as a Scot I would say that you may possibly be looking through rather inexperienced but rosy coloured specs re training in the Highlands and Islands. There are definite limitations for an F1, if you stop to think a little.

As I said earlier though, the health service provided is excellent - separate point.

@peteneras i don’t need to convince you so I won’t be trying to, ta.

I will repeat what I said before though: DS will absolutely be considering other medical schools. How could he possibly not? As an old dog you’ll know applicants can only apply to either Oxford or Cambridge. That’s why I asked that particular question.

Next, has it ever occurred to you that the best medical students don’t go to Oxford or Cambridge?

Yes of course it has. I’m not after DS being the best. Nor is DS. He’s totally disinterested in being the best or how he’s doing compared to others. As for me, my priority is him being happy during his university years and enjoying his studies.

@goodbyestranger depends what you're looking for I suppose. Every deanery will give doctors the experience they need to become great doctors. Never understood why London is seen as so amazing - but then I grew up there and know it's failings.

@AsPerMyLastEmail sounds a very good plan.

A sample website:

www.ouh.nhs.uk/haematology/team/consultants.aspx

But that's an Oxford hospital so has Oxford graduates. As I said, lots of people stay put after Uni.

Well, an F1 might want volume of patients in a particular medical area to gain expertise mumsneedwine....

Scenery is second to none however :)

No one cares. Just make my child better please.

www.gosh.nhs.uk/medical-information/clinical-specialties/haematology-and-oncology-information-parents-and-visitors/meet-haematology-and-oncology-team

It's also a website which in many cases shows med school, which was the point (your point wasn't the point).

@goodbyestranger I think you'll find some hospitals outside London are bigger and have areas of expertise that mean patients travel there instead. I love the idea that only London has a larger diverse patient clientele.

Busiest hospitals by admissions. One is in London.

I too am London born and think it is a fantastic place to live and work. But I completely understand why young people might want to mix it up a bit. So Oxbridge trained students might want to spend a few years in the capital in the early years, but perhaps then move away later. Equally London raised kids often want a few years away perhaps to return to continue their careers and raise their families.

A lot of DDs peers seem to want to remain in Bristol or thereabouts, presumably because it is a place they know. I assume the same thing happens at other medical schools.

All of which sounds natural. But not proof that F1 training in London is inherently better than say training in the West Country.

www.gosh.com.kw/consultants/dr-philip-ancliff

Also on the website. Really mumsneedwine, not difficult. He happened to be first on your list. I'm sure the same magic trick works if I was to go down the list.

FYI click on credentials then education.

@goodbyestranger you are obsessed with where people train. Most of us don't care. But you do and that's fine as a nice hobby. Just your obsession with all things London seems to me, as a Londoner, a bit bonkers. It's a nice city but no better than anywhere else. People get sick the world over and need treatment.

Oxford and Cambridge are very different as "Universities" than any others other than Durham and possibly St Andrews. The college system with very small group supervisions is pretty well unique in the UK.

Oxford and Cambridge are also a good way to spend time with people from other courses with the College sports and social stuff - and in many you stay in college for at least the 3 preclinical years and therefore know more non-medics than at most unis where you get to know flatmates, people on your course and maybe people from clubs/societies. In college you get to know a lot more of your year regardless of course, get roped into playing hockey or football if the team is short and it's much more of a community than a traditional hall where you sleep and possibly eat, especially as self catering is way more common now.

If the desire for Oxbridge is fuelled by the desire for the college life and maybe a wish to delay the day when you spend your whole life with medic types.

PS that doctor did his F1 & 2 at Leeds.

Has anyone claimed London training is better? Isn't it just more sought after, and therefore competitive (meaning lots of points)? I think it's entirely possible that the desire to go to London is for social life reasons rather than career, which is probably all to the credit of the young people in question.

@randomsabreuse bit that's the same for any Uni ? My DD is friends with people from loads of courses, through halls, societies and sports. Can't think of anywhere where it's just medics for first 3 years.

Crossed post with your one about London mumsneedwine. Do read the thread, and keep up. I loathe London.

But why would you go to London for the social life. Which is the same as in every other city in the country ? Except a lot more expensive.