Medicine: what’s better, Oxford or Cambridge?

[AsPerMyLastEmail]

DS wants to study medicine. For certain reasons beyond academics & reputation, he and I think Oxford or Cambridge may be a good fit for him. He’s Year 11 now so will be doing proper research nearer the time. Out of idle curiosity, I’d appreciate thoughts on which of the two is better for medicine. With the obvious caveat that ‘better’ is partly subjective.

Sure. But the cost of educating an Oxbridge student far exceeds even the current £9250 paid for undergrad. Science and medical students cost the most but even humanities students cost more than the £9250 currently charged.

It may not matter in the NHS where you went if you stay a practicing physician but if you want to do say move into a MedTech company or do private work or absolutely will matter where you went. If you want to practice in another country it will matter (to most). Going to Oxbridge keeps doors open. If 10 years down the line he fancies a 9-5 to be able to see his kids then where he went will matter.

I did medicine at Cambridge and Oxford back in the day. Did the first 3 years at C and then chose to transfer to O for clinical. Hopefully can offer a bit of insight into the differences between the two places rather than get into the pros and cons of the style of course and the prestige or not of an oxbridge degree.
I chose Cambridge initially because the preclinical school was much bigger so (at least some of) the colleges had more medics in each year group. Oxford colleges tended to only have 3-4 medics each whereas my (large) Cambridge college had 11 or 12 of us. Coming from a large state sixth form I felt I would prefer having a bigger group of peers for the small group tutorials/supervisions we had. We were in groups of 3 for the different subject supervisions but different combinations so it didn’t feel so claustrophobic as it might have done if there were only 2 others so you were always with the same students. I think I also thought that it would be easier to get into when there were more places but I think this wasn’t actually true.

Cambridge 3rd year choices used to be really diverse and I had a great time doing psychology for the year. My impression for the Oxford 3rd year was it is more clinical research/lab based but I think this might be just what my friends had chosen. That would be worth researching.
Cambridge is much more of a university city than a town with a university in it. I began to find this a bit much but the main reason why I changed was I didn’t fancy doing placements miles away in East Anglia. Oxford at the time had the vast majority of placements in the city. I had to go to Northampton for 6 weeks and Reading for 2 weeks and all the rest I managed to cycle to. Obviously that is changing- the year group used to be 100 in the clinical school and I think is now nearer 200 so they have to send you elsewhere. In terms of the college experiences, sports, drama, music etc I think you get a similar experience. I didn’t get so involved in Oxford as I was in the postgraduate medicine college which had a different environment than a typical college-
It was a welcome change from my traditional C college which I loved but you could t walk on the grass!
Hope that is helpful. Which one would I choose now if I could only choose one? Hard to say... I enjoyed both! Possibly Oxford has the edge in ratings I have seen. I think if you are someone who is happy with the lack of early patient contact and will thrive on the academic style of teaching/emphasis on research etc then they are much of a muchness. And despite my very academic start to medical life I have become a very normal GP (out of choice- was always my intention/interest)

Thank you @Soverytiredtoday that’s really, really helpful.

Oxford cohort is around 150 and that spread of placements is still about as much out of town as most students do.

London clinical training will no longer bean option for Oxford preclinical students by 2023.

Cambridge like UCL and Imperial have a formal integrated MB PhD programme that can be applied for during the third year. Not necessarily the best timing for a PhD and only a few places available. However if your DS particularly likes science and the prospect of research then that might be an inducement for him.
I agree with others that clinical training for Oxford students has the edge in experience and convenience over Cambridge.

I studied medicine at Cambridge, all 6 years.

I chose it because I really enjoy science. Also I didn't want to be let loose on patients until I knew some stuff! I also love the collegiate system. I had a great time there. I also think it benefitted me in taking my professional exams....i did paediatrics, which has a really sciencey paper which lots of my colleagues struggled with, but I breezed through fairly easily.

But in day to day life, it really doesn't make much odds in a medical career. I usually only say I went to Cambridge when I've done something stupid (I once sat on a filling cabinet to do some paperwork, because the computer was so tall, not realising the computer adjusted..).

I think the first choice is deciding if you want a traditional oxbridge style course, if you do, you visit both and see which setting suits you better. I preferred Cambridge because it was so pretty. But in truth they are much of a muchness. They are more alike than they are different.

You don't seem to be able to accept that many Oxford students might choose to undertake clinical placements at the hospitals that are the top 2 most competitive deaneries rather than the one that is ranked fifth

orangenasturtium by that logic many Oxbridge students would apply to Imperial or UCL as their first choice for pre-clinical, whereas both of those are usually the second choice for Oxbridge applicants.

I've said in each relevant post that (historically if you like, but recently) a few have chosen to go to London for the clinical years. Those are often the people who haven't enjoyed Oxford for whatever reason - not everyone does. But the main reason for not doing the clinical years in Oxford in terms of numbers going to London is because the students in question weren't offered a place. As for the two deaneries mentioned: those are definitely the first choice for F1 for Oxford students as a mass. I assume the logic of the pattern is: what's the hurry? We like Oxford, our peers, our tutors, the place; London can wait.

My brother is at Cambridge and the medics work so so hard, oh my word. It's a massive workload but he says they tell him the course is incredible. He is loving it at Cambridge

I went to Oxford for preclinical and UCL for clinical, a brilliant combination in my experience and I am sad that this won’t be an option for future students. Other posters are right that to a large extent people don’t care where you went to medical school once you are qualified. What I would say purely from personal perspective is that it was great to be a proper student for 3 years before going into the wards and allowed for personal development and good study habits before the clinical years. I have been a doctor for 18 years now and the most valuable lessons from Oxford were the basic sciences and study habits. I went into medicine then anaesthetics and the basic sciences foundation I had from those years stood me in really good stead for postgraduate exams, of which there are many!

My sibling read medicine at Cambridge and did very well. Nice place too. I have no inside knowledge however on which is better as I'm just a lawyer. I think it has been useful that the sibling went to Cambridge, professionally - that sibling also has a doctorate (in the sense of PhD) and is a professor (and NHS consultant).

I also prefer Cambridge as a city to Oxford although both have their pros and cons. Sovery comments about placements in East Anglia is my recollection with my sibling too, although I think in that case it was not a problem and there are some lovely parts of the country out there.

DD (Year 12) is planning on applying to Oxford for Medicine next year. She's drawn to Oxford over Cambridge because her brother has just started there (not medicine) and she likes what she hears and has seen. It's also much closer to home and other parts of the family. Not particularly good reasons but probably as good as any.

She likes the idea of Oxford student life for the early years before the clinical years start. That said her priority is to be a doctor and if it's not Oxford she'll be happy elsewhere. It's still early days and the only thing she has under her belt is good GCSEs and some work experience.

I do think she may be more of a scientist than a doctor so Oxford might suit her well.

Rather more Oxford people show up on these threads. Mine was in the last year at Cambridge to be permitted to go to London for their clinical years. They did that for a number of reasons including what they thought would be easier travel to placements. It's certainly worth looking hard at where they might be sent on placement and also at where they live in both pre clinical and clinical years. The preclinical Cambridge/ clinical London was a popular choice and I agree it's a bit of a pity it isnt an option now.

After 6 years in one place some students are keen to move on but others may have taken root. Quite a lot of medical students choose to apply for F1 in the same deanery they studied in. Settling in to F1 when you already know the hospitals and staff may be slightly easier. Of course Oxbridge students do often try to head for London at F1 and that's an extremely competitive application process. If they want to make it to the most competitive deaneries they need to start thinking early on about how the points system works. Cambridge students wanting to stay in the area dont have much problem as it's not a competitive deanery.

Oxbridge students tend to be good at passing exams and they go on to be good at passing specialty exams. Mine does think that the nature of the Cambridge course probably helps with specialty exams. But plenty of students at other medical school are also good at passing exams.

Cambridge tends to turn out more surgeons, no idea why although I think it's still doing dissection not prosection and maybe that attracts those who want to be surgeons.. It also seems to be easier for medics to be friends with non-medics, although now they all stay in one place obviously the bonds with other medics will tend to be stronger.

Cambridge is the bigger medical school and interviews more people than Oxford (in non-covid years). At least some of the colleges place more emphasis on academic record than interview. So you'll be interviewed if your entrance exam and academics show you can manage the course and then need to demonstrate that the teaching style will suit you. Cambridge had ( I havent checked recently) the higher grade requirement for its course so less applicants per place but all academically very able. Oxford places more emphasis on being the right type for Oxford.

Once you are an F1 its not going to matter much which medical school you went to, it will matter how you have done in your training.

Imperial and UCL actually do very little more clinical stuff in the first 3 years than Oxbridge.

Visit both places, talk to a lot of medical students. Oxford is said to have better clubs, if clubbing appeals. Cambridge gets pretty cold in winter.

That's helpful information alreadytaken.

You're right that UCL and Imperial only have a few short placements in the first 2 years. In year 3, UCL take an integrated BSc but the third year at Imperial is entirely clinical placements. Then vice versa in year 4.

DS did F1 and F2 at one of the two London deaneries named, after Oxford, along with a good number of his peers. I don't recall any talk of gamesmanship with the points system. They just need to keep on doing pretty well but obsessing about the next step isn't healthy, so I'd differ about the 'need to start thinking early on about how the points system works'.

No particular information to offer here, but my guess is that the OP's DS is attracted by the collegiate experience, as much as by the course itself.

DD is similar, albeit for a very very different course. She has applied to courses that attract her in terms of their content, ethos and delivery, but her first choice is Oxbridge because she feels that the collegiate environment would suit her much better than a more 'large complex of student halls' experience would. It isn't such a strong preference that she would be devastated not to get in (luckily, as her chosen course is amongst the most competitive to get into), but it is a factor that she has -sensibly, IMO, based on her realistic understanding of her own character, strengths and weaknesses - taken into consideration.

Cambridge had ( I havent checked recently) the higher grade requirement for its course so less applicants per place

Cambridge has always relied on higher A level offers as a selection step

BMAT scores will be very similar for successful candidates at either Oxford or Cambridge.

Oxford places more emphasis on being the right type for Oxford

A rather odd statement as there is major overlap in personality type between the Oxford and Cambridge and indeed with other medical schools. The ’ right type’ is simply that being very bright and good at exams is not enough for medicine and medics will usually have more outgoing personalities as well as being very academically able. Medicine tends to attract more ‘charismatic leaders’ than say natural sciences. Perhaps more have emerged from Oxford than Cambridge but even that is arguable.

@AsPerMyLastEmail

Brilliant to know about not doing clinical years in London.

Medstudent12 Thanks, DS is definitely into hardcore science. As for your other points, I disagree, it most definitely does matter where you go. The experience and how ‘well’ you do is about much more than rankings, academics & reputation. Which is precisely why the first sentence of my OP says he’s considering Oxbridge for reasons beyond academics and reputation. Good attention to detail is an imperative quality in a doctor and I hope wherever he ends up, my DS will learn this.

Nice little dig there about @Medstudent12 not having attention to detail. Bit rude when they are trying to help you.

Haha I thought that too @ohmysquash, posters coming on here to offer their advice based on experience and being rather snippily dismissed as not offering the 'right kind of advice'.

In recent years Cambridge and Oxford have attracted very nearly the same number of applicants for Medicine but Oxford had fewer places on offer. That seems to surprise quite a few people but also accounts for Cambridge's fewer applicants per place. A simple reason but I suspect more likely than Cambridge applicants cravenly going after offers with the maximum number of A. I'm struggling to think of many applicants for Oxford medicine from our school over the past decade who weren't predicted a full house of A.

In terms of clubbing - if that's a thing - for OP's DS - Oxford has the edge, by some way, in usual times.

A hyphen too many. Clearly clubbing is a thing.

It would be suprising, given the very high number of A* required at GCSE for Oxford as well as the reliance on a high BMAT score if there were too many chancers on the A level front applying to Oxford over Cambridge anyhow. Those sorts of GCSEs tend to translate to top A levels as well.

I hope I can say that without triggering an abstruse conversation happening about mean numbers etc (niche reference).

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