Medicine: what’s better, Oxford or Cambridge?

[AsPerMyLastEmail]

DS wants to study medicine. For certain reasons beyond academics & reputation, he and I think Oxford or Cambridge may be a good fit for him. He’s Year 11 now so will be doing proper research nearer the time. Out of idle curiosity, I’d appreciate thoughts on which of the two is better for medicine. With the obvious caveat that ‘better’ is partly subjective.

I agree that where you go makes a massive difference to the overall student experience. This is mainly what attracts dd to Cambridge. It's a very different experience to the one that university students get where we live!

A major advantage of Oxford Medicine is staying fairly close to Oxford for placements in the clinical years. That allows students to have much more of a proper uni experience throughtout, especially since they don't get shipped around in their first three years as at some other med schools. So six good years with friends and all the extra curricular stuff to get stuck into too.

OP there's a huge anti Oxbridge bias here on MN, in relation to Medicine. It seems hard for some posters to realise that being very, very good at science is far from always being allied to a lack of social skills or other attributes required of a doctor. There seems to be a daft either/ or take going on. Some applicants have it all. Six years of a first class education all the while having a good university life - what's not to like?

Alexa exactly.

goodbyestranger yes I’ve noticed the anti Oxbridge bias on here which is why I tried to head it off with some of the wording in my OP, including not going into the reasons why he and I think it would be a good fit.

It’s both frustrating and bemusing that because I’ve just asked about which is ‘better’ for medicine between Oxford a d Cambridge, some posters assume I’m implying they’re both better then elsewhere. Or that I’m implying he only wants to consider and apply to them and no other medical schools, despite that being ridiculous, impractical and implausible.

It’s also amusing that despite many being quick to point out that Oxbridge isn’t the best as the best is subjective, one poster says that Imperial and UCL are considered as good. Guess some people do view things objectively.

It seems hard for some posters to realise that being very, very good at science is far from always being allied to a lack of social skills or other attributes required of a doctor. There seems to be a daft either/ or take going on. Some applicants have it all.

Haha, yes indeed. I seem to remember that the medics I knew in Cambridge were exceptionally gregarious and sociable - definitely not just science boffins!

I think OP it's difficult to answer your question of which is better given that you haven't defined 'better'. Prestige, reputation, academically both are the same. So what does 'better' look like to you, or your ds? What sort of experience does he want? Waiting three years to get your hands on a patient will be fabulous for some students, while utterly miserable for others.

Perhaps clarify that and you'll get 'better' responses....

I definitely think the size of the city makes a big difference. Cambridge is dominated by the university in a way that Oxford is not.

titchy I’ve had some very helpful responses.

Bit confused by something in yours. You acknowledge that I’m asking which is ‘better’ between Oxford & Cambridge, then go on to say that “waiting three years to get your hands on a patient will be fabulous for some students, while utterly miserable for others”. But surely that’s the same at both O & C? In which case its not relevant o which is ‘better’ between them.

Based purely on the people I know who studied medicine at Oxford and Cambridge, I would vote Oxford. Not very scientific, but I knew a medical student who was at Cambridge who dropped out and another who ended up being admitted to hospital due to a MH issue which was triggered by extreme stress. I knew Cambridge students in other subjects who were fine though. Have to also say, this was in the early noughties, so maybe less stressful these days or better support! Now that I've read they do their placements in London, that might explain the high stress levels. The two doctors I know who studied at Oxford seem very happy and look back on their time there as fun.

That said, Cambridge is a much nicer city imo, so probably up to your DS to take a look round and decide.

PS: I know someone who sits on the interview panels at one of the Oxbridge universities and she said the alleged mystery of who they pick to attend is actually really boring. It is just like a job interview with competencies etc.

I wouldn't put too much trust in the link that Ginfordinner posted with medical school rankings. No offence intended Ginfordinner!

The score for "graduate prospects" is pretty meaningless when it comes to medicine, just look at the scores - all 99 or 100%. The ranking in that table is largely down to student satisfaction, the sample size of students who respond to the survey is quite small so the results are easily skewed. Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial and UCL all consistently appear in the top 10 medical schools in the world.

However, as Medstudent12 says, it doesn't really matter where you study medicine, it is more important to find a course style that suits your DS. I would also look at the subjects/courses available for intercalation, universities have different options. Some medical schools accept intercalating students from other universities, and vice versa, some universities, but not all, allow students to intercalate elsewhere. If your DS is interested in research, he may want to consider if the university will allow him to intercalate and do a PhD before the clinical years.

Cambridge no longer sends students to London medical schools for the clinical years and the last cohort from Oxford will be 2023 so it won't be an option for your DD @AlexaShutUp. Sorry

To answer your question about funding anyway:

Funding is different for the clinical years. Fees are paid by the NHS and students receive an NHS bursary. Like student loans, everyone gets the small basic bursary and there is a means tested element. They can also apply for a reduced student loan. Oxbridge students moving to London would be eligible for the London level of funding. Be warned, the NHS bursary and reduced student loan are in total less than the student loan that they get in the pre-clinical years and the clinical course is 52 weeks so there is no opportunity to earn money in the vacations. They need to financially plan ahead.

Another thing that they might need to take into consideration is university bursaries. Unsurprisingly, Oxbridge and Imperial have the most generous schemes.

Thanks orangenasturtium, that's helpful. It sounds like we'll be financially supporting dd for quite a few years to come then! Oh well...

So, if Cambridge students aren't sent to London for the clinical years any more, where do they go? Could it be anywhere? I'm assuming that there isn't the capacity at Addenbrookes for all of them?

It's OK @orangenasturtium. No offence taken at all

Bedford, Hinchingbrooke, Bury St Edmunds, Ipswich, Kings Lynn, Stevenage, Peterborough @AlexaShutUp

Wherever your DD studies, she won't be based at just one hospital for clinical placements.

@AsPerMyLastEmail

titchy I’ve had some very helpful responses.

Bit confused by something in yours. You acknowledge that I’m asking which is ‘better’ between Oxford & Cambridge, then go on to say that “waiting three years to get your hands on a patient will be fabulous for some students, while utterly miserable for others”. But surely that’s the same at both O & C? In which case its not relevant o which is ‘better’ between them.

I know very little about the relative learning styles at medical schools - was just going on a pp who said Ox was classroom based for three years and (incorrectly?) assumed Cam wasn't. However the point still stands - you need to identify which is best FOR YOUR DS. The differences between O and C may be subtle, or they may not be. But those differences might mean the difference between a brilliant experience and a poor one, depending on what is important to him.

I would also add, it is best to apply tactically to medical schools. There is no point applying to 4 schools that will give them the same offer so they don't have an insurance offer, different schools have different criteria (GCSE grades, UCAT/BMAT, work experience, research experience etc) for selecting who to interview so they should apply to the ones where they fit the criteria best.

Two small things to take into consideration on that front when choosing between Oxford and Cambridge.

I think the A level standard offer at Cambridge is 2 A stars but it's only one A star at Oxford. If your DS is considering taking the IB instead of A-levels, Cambridge requires 40-42 in the IB for medicine, Oxford only asks for 39. It's so easy to drop a few marks from coursework moderation in the IB, 40-42 is much harder to achieve than 2 A stars and an A.

Oxford only allows applicants to sit the BMAT exam in November, after medical school applications have closed so if something goes wrong on the day of the BMAT exam it is too late to change UCAS choices. That means it is a risk applying blind to the other 7 BMAT universities, including Imperial and UCL. It also means that they will probably need to sit both the UCAT and BMAT, whereas if they know they have a great BMAT score they might decide not to take both (one less exam to study for...). Cambridge allows applicants to take the exam in September or November.

@AsPerMyLastEmail it really doesn't matter where you go when applying for F1. No one knows. It is done purely on where you rank in your cohort and the SJT (& likely a new national exam too).That's all people are trying to say. Apply to where you like the course and think you'll get an interview. It's not bias against Oxbridge - if a traditional curse is your choice then they are perfect. It's just that most medical schools have moved away from this model as they think exposing students to patients earlier is more beneficial. But if your child doesn't want that then that's fine.
Oh and the Uni with the most first choice F1s last year was UEA I think.

I think a lot of Cambridge med students train at Stevenage.

I don’t understand why OP doesn’t specify the reasons that she thinks her DS might be suited to Oxford and/or Cambridge. It makes it much harder to answer. Lack of detail there OP.

orangenasturtium you name seven hospitals besides Addenbrookes which presumably are the other hospitals a Cambridge medical student might get a placement at. But no one medical student will go to all of those seven in their clinical years.

At Oxford, it's possible to do almost all placements at the John Radcliffe and in any event students can commute from their houses in Oxford to placements; plenty do.

That's a very different scenario to that at lots of other medical schools. KCL for example. Not everyone wants to continue with a university vibe for six years but for those who enjoy the community and all it has to offer, then six years at either Oxford or Cambridge isn't something to be sneezed at. Plenty of time to be peripatetic later on. These students are young, and moving constantly can be meh.

HopeClearwater making a random guess here but I expect OP's DC is very bright, seriously good at science, engaged and engaging with people etc etc. It's not a crime to think your DC might get into one of the top ranked med schools in the world. For some people it's just realistic, and you think they might enjoy it and benefit from it too.

There's also life and a career after F1. Some posters talk as if F1 is the end game. Oxbridge students do very, very well in terms of career. They've had the benefit of a first class education, if top in the world is to be believed, and are very bright by definition. I'd say most were relatively personable too, although I accept the the latter is regarded as heretical. They also have the advantage of having been exposed to serious pressure at Oxbridge and while pressures in the workplace are qualitatively different, the fact is that that exposure is a significant help, not just as a new F1 but going forward.

@Hopewater the lack of detail about why I think they may be suited to Oxbridge is deliberate as it’s not relevant. They are v similar and are different to most other courses. I don’t want to go into reasons as I don’t want to get sidetracked by answering questions about these reasons, or justifying them or having to politely reply to suggestions of other courses. I’m not trying to be difficult, just focused and private.

@goodbyestranger is right that DA is very good at science and very bright, but it’s also about the university experience that Oxbridge offers. Regardless of what DS wanted to study, he and we and his school would be considering Oxbridge for him because of the set up. goodbye does hit the nail on the head with staying in one place and possibly one or two hospitals rather than moving around. I think KCL seems amazing, but it wouldn’t suit him.

I do take people’s point though that I haven’t specified what I see as ‘better’ when determining between the two. I should have worded it differently to ask about what people saw as pros and cons. He has been thinking more Oxford. He’s been to O but not C (I’ve been to both), but we’ll have to have a look.

@goodbyestranger as usual we are never going to agree on this. You believe Oxbridge gives some advantage to doctors, I don't. JVT is a Professor at Nottingham. And no one cares if they are sick. They just want a doctor who can make them better with compassion. F1 is the start of their career and the bit that sets them on their career. After that no one bothers to ask.