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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

The "Durham difference" - huge bias towards Private schools

301 replies

mummymeister · 02/07/2019 14:34

I have just been to the open day at Durham Uni with one of my DC. I have other children in Uni and at various stages of education but have never felt so incredibly angry before.

My DC wants to study a subject in the Classics department. There was a last minute room change which meant we missed a talk and had 50 minutes to kill so I looked at some stats and wished I hadnt!

66% of the 100 students taken by the Classics department come from Private education. In the "real world" only 6% of students are privately educated.

When I challenged the admissions officer about this massive bias against state pupils she just ummed and erred with no real idea of a plan but kept saying that they were "working on trying to improve this"! Sorry but this is just not good enough imo. And to make it even worse this year the figure has gone up by nearly 2% so clearly what they have been doing has made stuff all difference.

They seem to put great store on reading all applications and personal statements so this is clearly where something needs to be done. I know many parents of children in private schools so I know how much time, effort and money is spent on making sure that the personal statement is perfect. No such help at our state school.

My DC will meet the predicted grades but honestly am just not sure I want them to be somewhere so incredibly elitist. It feels like a waste of a choice to me.

I guess I thought we were moving towards a level playing field and that the school you went to didnt really matter but clearly at Durham it does. I cant be the only parent that feels like this can I? I am unsure what to do next, whether to write in and express these feelings again or just to accept that life isnt fair.

OP posts:
goodbyestranger · 04/07/2019 18:54

Also Teddybear, the Classics dept at Durham doesn't require a prior knowledge of a classical language and that's the subject of the thread.

Devondoggydaycare · 04/07/2019 19:26

Thankfully many grad schemes don't share your views. A good A level in maths, which the majority of management & business graduates have, is far more valuable than a 2:2 in classics for many schemes. I'm sure a business or management graduate from LSE would find it easier to get a good role than a classics student from Durham with the same class of degree.

Fibbke · 04/07/2019 19:35

Nobody will prefer a Classics student with a 2:2 over a business student with the same grade for most grad schemes

Is that so?

goodbyestranger · 04/07/2019 20:38

The ones I'd like my DC to do (the competitive ones) would share my view though Devondoggy, so that's good enough for me.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 05/07/2019 12:05

OKBobble

Thanks! I had no idea.

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 05/07/2019 12:08

I once read an article which suggested Classics to be the most difficult degree and MFL the easiest (this being amongst traditional subjects).

bevelino · 05/07/2019 14:17

My dd is studying 3 MFL’s at Oxbridge and I am not sure I agree studying MFL’s is easy. I wonder how many people can honestly say they can speak and write fluently in a another language.

ZandathePanda · 05/07/2019 15:52

I have just popped back to this thread. Some of the comments on here are bonkers.

Presumably there aren’t a lot of state educated parents/ parents of state school children on this thread? I can’t believe I am saying this but with comments like ‘(state school pupils) might as be exposed to (independently schooled) people with higher earning and career expectations too which may do them good’ and ‘Can children from state schools afford to even go to university any more?’ (loans anyone?!! or was that comment tongue-in-cheek?), I think I may be back in that 1st class carriage train carriage.
We could have afforded private school. Dds are bright and would easily have got in to the highly performing selective private schools. But we, like loads of other parents, decided the local state school was better for our children. My Dds friends’ parents are medical consultants, cleaners, teachers, electricians, vicars, handymen, careworkers and international lawyers. And to the comment ‘In fact you can do a lot more good earning a lot than not surely’ actually many of us will find careworkers will be doing the most good/ be most important in a few decades.

The ‘hubris’ word was mentioned and, again, going back to the OP, that is the vibe we got from the set of parents of private-schooled children we were sitting in the same train carriage going to Durham. I had being telling Dd her views were an old stereotype and I was proven wrong. It was the financial and ‘high culture’ top trumps that was so laughable but, in all seriousness, could put other teenagers off. That is what Durham admissions are up against. After all, as stubiff so succinctly pointed out in one example, all the research shows that state schooled pupils do better at university than independent schooled pupils. That’s why universities should be so attracted to us riff raff GrinGrin.

goodbyestranger · 05/07/2019 15:59

Zanda why did you travel first class?

goodbyestranger · 05/07/2019 16:02

At the welcome quiz night at a top co-ed independent last year DD4 excelled in the pop culture section - she said she was literally the only one to attempt and get the answers. The 'high culture' section was another ball game entirely :)

ZandathePanda · 05/07/2019 16:18

goodbye why does it matter? I could tell you to read my post a few pages back but it’s Friday and I am about to go on holiday and it’s sunny, so: 1. they were the only seats left and I didn’t want us to stand for hours. 2. The upgrade cost little more than the food we ate in first class (for no extra) for breakfast. Apologies if you are trying to do some sort of analogy with private v state schooling! 😂
Btw, as pps have said the above is a handy tip for long train journeys.

TapasForTwo · 05/07/2019 16:27

Zanda the last time DD and I went to London we travelled first class as it was an extra £10 each. Free Wi-Fi, free drinks and biscuits (it was the wrong time of day for a meal), and being at the front of the train we were first through the barrier at St Pancras Grin

I would do it again.

growlingbear · 05/07/2019 16:49

Most state schools don't offer Classics. If you want to test whether the uni is biased, check their stats for Maths, English, History, Engineering etc.

goodbyestranger · 05/07/2019 16:57

Anyone who buys a lot of rail tickets for long journeys as I do will know of the good deals to be had on first class seats. I'm not proposing any sort of analogy so I think you may be a little fast to hit the crying with laughter button. I just find it a little ironic that you make so much of the fact that it was a first class carriage when you now realise that for long journeys booked ahead it often makes good economic sense.

clairwy1 · 05/07/2019 17:02

I know Durham Uni well, and it is packed with Oxbridge failures playing at that missed experience; the Colleges on the Bailey are sought-after as they look Hogwarts/Oxbridge-ish. It's all rather sad, and many individual students are dogged by it being their second choice.

Fibbke · 05/07/2019 17:20

I know Durham Uni well, and it is packed with Oxbridge failures playing at that missed experience; the Colleges on the Bailey are sought-after as they look Hogwarts/Oxbridge-ish. It's all rather sad, and many individual students are dogged by it being their second choice

God, people can be nasty. What a horrible thing to think. I know two boys at Durham, they love it.

daisypond · 05/07/2019 17:21

My DC’s inner city comprehensive offers both Latin and Greek as twilight subjects at GCSE. Not sure about A level. I went to a bog-standard northern comprehensive in the ‘80s and quite a few pupils went to Durham. It wasn’t the sort of school where pupils went to Oxbridge but Durham seemed very achievable.

BasiliskStare · 05/07/2019 18:47

Well , 1. Many applicants will have a very good chance at ab initio classics 2. There are always ( being booked in advance ) always good deals to be done on 1st class tickets - & depending on time of travel. Have done it for travelling to parents 250 miles away - often cheaper than a standard return fare

I do appreciate this is not quite the point of the thread but don't assume someone travelling in a 1st class carriage is necessarily as rich as Croessus.

Xenia · 05/07/2019 20:05

My comment that mixing at university is good both for those from less well off home and vice versa is a good tihng. It happened with grammar schools too - those like my parents who passed the 11+ got to move into a totally different world and there were benefitsf rom that. It was and is not a bad thing that you might mix with people from a different kind of background at university and if you want jobs where you need to be excellent at all kinds of things not just passing exams and people congregate at certain universities and then into certain high paid jobs at those places surely it does benefit those who eg (often seen on mumsnet) from homes where the view is yet do wella t university but become a nurse or teacher or something else noble but fairly low paid - if your eyes are opened by going to university with people who want to earn £100k plus. I don't think my point has no validity.

However I certainly accept that there are plenty of people even from sink comps, never mind posh state grammars who have high income expectations too.

[I never travel first class - I don't like it]

myrtleWilson · 05/07/2019 20:07

I know Durham Uni well, and it is packed with Oxbridge failures playing at that missed experience; the Colleges on the Bailey are sought-after as they look Hogwarts/Oxbridge-ish. It's all rather sad, and many individual students are dogged by it being their second choice

Not my DH's experience but he's only lectured there for almost two decades so I guess he could be wrong...

IveGotBillsTheyreMultiplying · 05/07/2019 20:40

I know Durham Uni well, and it is packed with Oxbridge failures playing at that missed experience; the Colleges on the Bailey are sought-after as they look Hogwarts/Oxbridge-ish. It's all rather sad, and many individual students are dogged by it being their second choice

Very depressing attitude.

If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all....

growlingbear · 05/07/2019 22:04

I have some ex-pupils who went to Durham through choice because they found Oxbridge too stuffy. They loved Durham. (I don't share that opinion but they were capable of applying to Oxford and chose Durham instead. It's certainly not all bitter rejects!

BasiliskStare · 05/07/2019 22:06

@myrtleWilson - ha ha - brilliant Smile Wine Brew

sendsummer · 05/07/2019 22:08

Zanda your train story is a single experience (although repeated on quite a few threads). Obviously it made a strong impression on you and your DD but seems rather flimsy evidence on which to judge an entire student population. Durham university must have thousands of open day visitors each year and has over 18,000 students (I have just checked). I can guarantee that there will be a mix of people there.

myrtleWilson · 06/07/2019 13:28

Lovely sunny day for today's open day. Very well attended but disappointing lack of educational background signifiers Smile But they all looked very happy!