The "Durham difference" - huge bias towards Private schools

[mummymeister]

I have just been to the open day at Durham Uni with one of my DC. I have other children in Uni and at various stages of education but have never felt so incredibly angry before.

My DC wants to study a subject in the Classics department. There was a last minute room change which meant we missed a talk and had 50 minutes to kill so I looked at some stats and wished I hadnt!

66% of the 100 students taken by the Classics department come from Private education. In the "real world" only 6% of students are privately educated.

When I challenged the admissions officer about this massive bias against state pupils she just ummed and erred with no real idea of a plan but kept saying that they were "working on trying to improve this"! Sorry but this is just not good enough imo. And to make it even worse this year the figure has gone up by nearly 2% so clearly what they have been doing has made stuff all difference.

They seem to put great store on reading all applications and personal statements so this is clearly where something needs to be done. I know many parents of children in private schools so I know how much time, effort and money is spent on making sure that the personal statement is perfect. No such help at our state school.

My DC will meet the predicted grades but honestly am just not sure I want them to be somewhere so incredibly elitist. It feels like a waste of a choice to me.

I guess I thought we were moving towards a level playing field and that the school you went to didnt really matter but clearly at Durham it does. I cant be the only parent that feels like this can I? I am unsure what to do next, whether to write in and express these feelings again or just to accept that life isnt fair.

My DS went to Durham recently from ScumbagCollege with 3A*A and was encouraged to apply for all the top universities for his subject. He is both bemused and amused by many students presuming he is from private school and 'posh'. He has even been told he 'looks like a Tory'.

He has found a good mix of friends from all economic and cultural backgrounds and has not encountered snobbery.

I am never convinced that private schools are necessary to achieve well. The media at the moment seems to think that confidence and polish is the sole preserve of public schools. I think there may be more correlation with hubris.

Not all private school pupils can be associated with hubris - some of them are quite nice and get on with lots of people. Yes an advantage - I see that - but not in all cases does it make some one a complete twit.

The snobby people who I know all covet the local grammar schools! Private is out of their league so Grammar is everything to them. What they say about the local secondary modern is close to Scumbag! But worse.

Of course there are lovely students from all types of schools. I was mainly thinking of the overconfidence of some of the top politicians which is often lauded as though it is a strength and mentioned whilst discussing their public school background.

As someone mentioned upthread the younger generation are probably less hung up about class differences. Parents are more likely to be anxious about their offspring's future success than the offspring themselves. It's probably a survival thing and has always been so.

I can safely say that Durham has tried with widening participation ( eg. travel expenses paid to attend open days) but it's a bit chicken and egg. Until more state school applicants are there then the perception will be it's all aimed at private schools.

My children's cousin went there from a state comp in Yorkshire by the way. It is by no means all private schools at Durham.

The snobby people who I know all covet the local grammar schools! Private is out of their league so Grammar is everything to them. What they say about the local secondary modern is close to Scumbag! But worse

This!

I remember one mother saying a lot and loudly that she wouldn't consider the grammar where my DC have gone for her own DC because the families there were too common.

I will flip this around the other way and say that it may be a benefit for a State student to go to a Uni with a high proportion of Independent students.
The State student will, on average, get a better degree outcome vs the Independent student with the same A-level grades.

They might als be exposed to people with higher earning and career expectations too which may do them good.

Good heavens, goodbyestranger! What a bizarre thing to say. It is actually rude about any school and any group of parents. What led to this comment?

No, stubiff: That is not true at the top universities. It is at the lower ranking ones.

Bubbles I can only assume it's because each and everyone of us is actually common. So her DC went off to a well known second tier but expensive boarding school to meet a nicer class of person. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the children in question failing the test.

It depends on the college - more privately educated students on the Bailey colleges and more state educated on the Hill ones. Your college is far more important than your subject at Durham, interns of your overall uni experience, in my opinion.

• in terms of

@BubblesBuddy
Please can you point me at the research as I’m interested in that. Thanks.

The State student will, on average, get a better degree outcome vs the Independent student with the same A-level grades

If a student at a good independent comes out with CCD then it is likely that they might struggle at uni. I guess a state educated student with CCD may have suffered due to poor teaching or huge classes and might be more likely to have to have been self motivated.

I find it hard to believe that students with AAA star or otherwise do worse than state students with AAA star.

There are of course other factors to consider when choosing a uni, apart from its academic excellence or social mix. One of the important ones is the quality of pastoral care for students.
I can vouch that Durham was excellent in this regard.
DD’s tutor even drove her to A and E in her car when DD had a mental health relapse, and the uni counselling service was very supportive, as was the college chaplain and the course lecturers. The college system means that the students are among smaller “family” groups rather than anonymous crowds of thousands.
Even the janitors and cleaners were friendly - DD liked one porter who farmed goats and showed the students pics of his favourites, and another who brought his elderly pet black Labrador to work, for the students to pat if they were feeling sad or homesick. You can’t put a price on things like that, but they make such a difference to a student’s experience of uni.

Pic attached.
So, as suggested/intimated at, for the very highest A-level performers then no real difference (save for the AAA+1 oddity).
Certainly a difference for plenty of Universities though.

Interesting. I wonder if type of uni was also included.

Can children from state schools afford to even go to university any more?

Can children from state schools afford to even go to university any more?

Eh? Why wouldn't they?

@Redpostbox. There are some children from quote rich families attending many state schools- I’m talking millionaire parents.

Can children from state schools afford to even go to university any more?

Really ??? What a bizarre comment.

Classics often requires the study of Latin and Ancient Greek and that isn’t mandatory in most state or grammar schools. It’s also a pretty useless subject in terms of employability if you only get 2:2. Nobody will prefer a Classics student with a 2:2 over a business student with the same grade for most grad schemes.

You're pretty much stuffed with a 2.2 for a competitive grad scheme whatever the subject.

I'd give strong preference to the Classics student over the Business student - it's a far more rigorous degree.