Leaving university, without ever having had a job?

[VerenaR]

Just that really. What would you think of a person, generally and also from an employment point of view, if they had left university without ever having had a job?

My DD is currently in her second year of university, and I am really trying to persuade her to start looking for a summer job. She has reliably told me she will definitely get one this year, but she has said that for the past two years! She says she doesn't need to work as she wants to enjoy her time off doing the things she likes doing, and she insists she doesn't need the money (she receives a big maintenance loan from uni, that would last her over the summer). I know this is true, as she never asked me for any money last year. She earns money from selling clothes, but I keep on telling her that won't cut it on a CV if she has never held down an actual job.

Please give me your opinions and advice, I want her to see that I am not nagging her, just trying to help her in gaining experience which will help secure a full-time job after university.

Thank you for both of your sons experiences. I will be sure show this full thread to DD tonight so she can read about what she will be faced with during the application processes.

What is she doing? This is completely normal amongst my friends who have done hard degrees like medicine but obviously those doing less intensive courses which don’t lead directly into a job are expected to do something. Why doesn’t she start her own company selling stuff on eBay and put that down a swirl experience?

I don't think her CV will be empty if she's doing a month placement, and has other experience to draw on- organizing social events is a good one!

There are plenty of people who do min wage jobs and then...go on to carry on working in Costa or whatever.

Those that make the leap tend to be very focused, very enthusiastic, know what they want, have relevant work experience or internships or placements and there's a dollop of luck and bonding with the interviewer/panel. Like I say, internships in the major companies, banks, consultancy companies are highly competitive now and use their internships to screen and assess candidates whilst they are working for them, so that's another route in.

Properly framed, setting up an online retail business as she has done will look great on a CV - especially if she can show that it was profitable and that her online presence grew. There is lots good to say there, especially if as you say she made it a full time role. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t think that would count! She started a business, using eBay to reach her customers. She is self employed!

She is studying English Literature.

Well, she doesn't know whether she is doing the one month placement yet, she's applied but I think it is very popular but I really hope she gets it. I think it would really help with thinking about careers and what she wants to go into next year.

I have been interviewing a graduates at big law firms for years and think having worked is hugely important. We pay them a lot and in return expect them to work really hard without being patted on the head and told how great they are all the time. I've found over the years that having to get up and go in day after day to service industry jobs in their holidays/at weekends is a much better indicator of grit and persistence than unpaid work experience or travel (which is often achieved through parents' contacts or money, so they are effectively being treated as guests/customers without any expectations that they will "just get on with it").

BonIver...I think it counts, as I watch her doing all the eBay things and it does take ages, not to mention just putting the things on there, but packing all the clothes up, posting them etc...however, I am worried about what an employer would think and whether they would see it as relevant, or just a way to cover up inexperience.

Yes, work experience is a tricky one. I know she is being compared to her cousin who has got work experience at a top accountancy firm, but her father works there. My DD, and I certainly don't have the contacts or friends in high places to get really top work experience from family friends etc. She has only applied for the internship schemes open to all.

Eek. When she enters the workforce she will be competing with peers who have work experience - the absence of this will put her at a severe disadvantage.

I've always preferred to employ graduates who have worked alongside studying / during holidays because it shows work ethic, responsibility and I can ask for a reference.

One young woman I hired hadn't put her part time job at Sainsbury's on her CV as she thought it was irrelevant to our industry (PR) but I explained it was an opportunity to showcase customer service, working in a team, even just turning up on time every day and being responsible! All things someone who hasn't worked can't use to make themselves more appealing to a potential employer.

Tutoring is a great one too as it shows someone is a self starter, patient and can deal with lots of different personalities etc effectively.

I'm honestly not saying this to be harsh but the reality is she's an adult so really should be aware of all this especially in the current work climate. It's a gladiatorial battle in some industries, I'd help her wise up if I were you but ultimately it's her responsibility so she needs to take charge of her future!

No advice and same position with my DD. DHi is not much help as he says she's an adult and I shouldn't tell her what to do . I find her opportunities and help her write applications but I suspect they don't even get sent off.

@VerenaR

Some of it is about positioning too - can she formalise it a little and explain she set up an eBay shop and sold goods throughout uni breaks to help fund her studying as she wanted to focus on it full time during term?

How she helped it grow year on year / how she learned how to get more clicks / how she's increased the conversion rates of people watching to purchasing etc?

If she's generated the same cash flow as traditional work experience off her own back and can articulate it in that way then I'd find it really interesting as an employer, especially in an interview, as it shows smart thinking and (to be honest) and understanding of making profit!

Perhaps help her frame her real experience in this way? Could be a win win I think!

Oops sorry I cross posted with others who shared similar thoughts!

Perhaps start by realistically asking what sort of job she would like to do after her degree, and what skills and experience that calls for. Most graduate schemes now include cognitive testing and various levels of interviewing, using AI and people. She needs to jump through these hoops to get in, and then be able to hold down the job when in. If her life experiences have prepared her for this, then what is the point of using up possibly never to be repeated holidays gaining nothing she doesn't already have? If she finds she has gaps to fill, then she can target these in looking for a summer placement.

She will be competing with people of similar age, and they may have spent their holidays interning, because that filled a gap in what they could offer, or in working out what they wanted. It doesn't mean they are better placed to get the job, and will. Jobs go to suitable people who are most likely to do them better than anyone else applying. So the questions are about what she needs to do to get what she wants, not whether she is doing what other people are doing.

In working for spare money, people handling and organising skills and experience often come as a bonus.Even if she doesn't need the money, she may enjoy a spell trying out voluntary work in a setting of interest. This is not the same as doing a random job because others do. In itself there is nothing good or bad about a summer job. Bad if her time could be better spent, good if it helps her in her future plans.

Thank you for your advice. That is really helpful about the idea of 'framing'. She is re-writing her CV this weekend after a few exams she has, so I will make her keep this paragraph in mind.

She truly has no idea what to do, placement is for some experience to see if she likes that field. She insists she really has no clue, and she has done lots of careers tests back in Sixth Form and one at uni...all come back with the most random of job suggestions.

:) also I didn't have the contacts to "get in" with companies for internships and work experience.

So I saved up a chunk of my part time student job money and trekked into London on the train every day for a week, buzzing the doors of LOADS of PR agencies and asking to chat to whoever hired graduates / the office manager if they wouldn't send the HR people down!

I got some brilliant internships because they liked that I was a keen self starter -gobby- and took initiative.

Researched the hell out of all of them before I went in and told them I'd make tea, photocopy, whatever they needed to get experience of the PR game because I was so keen to work in the industry. It worked!

I think it's tough if she isn't 100% what kind of job she wants - sorry if I missed it but does she have a steer on what industry she'd like to get into?

Maybe a MNetter could take a look at her CV if they're in a relevant field and DD is happy to receive feedback!

I recruit a lot, in an area where there is a skills shortage. It is incredibly hard to make an assessment of someone if they have no work experience. That said, I'm sure she'd have some suitable answers based on her clothes selling business. But I would strongly encourage her to get some PT NMW job, I've lost count of the number of new graduates we've recruited because of their answers about their Saturday job at Lidl. And I'm recruiting scientists whose degrees will also give them some relevant experience whereas with an English degree she'll be looking at generic graduate jobs that don't require specific knowledge from her degree, just transferable skills.

No, her degree is in English Literature. she found it difficult enough to choose a degree, as she is not really really interested in one field iyswim, or passionate about a career/subject.
I like your tactics on getting the work experience, reminds me of the lad who went around London knocking on people's doors and asking them how they had become so successful to live there. Eventually, one gave him a break and a job :)

She’s doing a non vocational degree where any tangentially related job is both extremely competitive and badly paid. It’s absolute madness that she hasn’t had a job. The type of internship she’s applying for will be insanely competitive. She needs to look at things like volunteering in a library or work experience at a local paper or anything vaguely related to what she might want to do.

I agree that rightly spun her eBay business will sound good though. Is she registered as a business seller?

If she doesn't know what she wants to do, that's even more reason to be doing various jobs now. It will give her an idea of what she likes and doesn't like and what she's good at. She could try bar work/waitressing/shop assistant but also office temping etc. See what sort of vibes she prefers and what skills come more naturally to her.

I have worked with graduates working on their CVs and it's quite shocking how many of them don't have any experience of any sort. The ones that are always the most impressive are the ones who've done something else - sometimes it's a job at sainsbury's and sometimes it's taking on graduate research projects at uni or whatever. But just something that means they're more exposed to the "real world".

Her online retail experience is, however, absolutely relevant. Depending on the job she's going for she can demonstrate skills around online marketing/ organisation and planning/ creativity etc.

Same degree as me :)

I agree one of the benefits of working in any capacity is working out what you do and don't like to do. One of my children has been volunteering in a customer facing role and hates it. Good to know! She would be great in a small team, but dealing with the public day in day out, she's motivated to avoid. I have lots of students who didn't really like their internships including in PR and HR- again this motivated them to move away from their original career plans to something else.

I recruit graduates and would not even invite to interview someone with no work experience or part time work. The only exceptions would be students who had a CV full of volunteering, student guild involvement, study abroad etc so I could see they’d developed their skills in other ways.
Obviously also allowances would be made for students with disabilities or caring responsibilities who have a reason for a less full CV

Your DD does sound rather as though she needs a bit of a kick up the arse (in the nicest possible way) OP. Could you ask her to imagine, if she were suddenly beamed down from another planet and found herself in your area with nowhere to live and no family support, what she would do immediately to support herself? If she remains sheltered from the 'real world' for too long she is going to be in for a nasty shock when she graduates.

I think you are spinning this wrong.
Why would you describe her CV as empty when she's run an online business , done tutoring, organized events, and taken part in sports and arts at university?
I'd say having the gumption to run her own venture is much more impressive than a Saturday job at Maccy D or wherever.