Leaving university, without ever having had a job?

[VerenaR]

Just that really. What would you think of a person, generally and also from an employment point of view, if they had left university without ever having had a job?

My DD is currently in her second year of university, and I am really trying to persuade her to start looking for a summer job. She has reliably told me she will definitely get one this year, but she has said that for the past two years! She says she doesn't need to work as she wants to enjoy her time off doing the things she likes doing, and she insists she doesn't need the money (she receives a big maintenance loan from uni, that would last her over the summer). I know this is true, as she never asked me for any money last year. She earns money from selling clothes, but I keep on telling her that won't cut it on a CV if she has never held down an actual job.

Please give me your opinions and advice, I want her to see that I am not nagging her, just trying to help her in gaining experience which will help secure a full-time job after university.

[stressedoutpa]

I think the children who are able to volunteer, do DofE stuff and reading around their subject are very lucky indeed!

My parents weren't at all well off so I've literally been working since I was 14! Mid week paper round, Saturday jobs, jobs at uni, holiday jobs have all been a necessary part of my life.

My Brother's children haven't ever had to earn through college and university. Two of the three of them have no work ethic at all.

[redbedheadd]

As a hiring manager (head of marketing at a tech company) I wouldn't even interview someone who had never had a job. So many people have degrees now, that's just table stakes. I would worry they were lacking time management, intuition, common sense and wouldn't be hard working enough. In fact I'd rather see someone who could show they had grafted in a job but had no degree than the other way around.

What kind of job does she want?

[redbedheadd]

@ThatCurlyGirl you sound amazing! 🙌

[NicoAndTheNiners]

My dd is 18yo and doesn't work in paid employment but she does voluntary work and has done for over two years. Every Saturday morning. I'm hoping that would be enough to demonstrate commitment, time management, etc. She will get a good reference if she wants one and it's relevant to the field she will do her degree in and wants to work in.

[DonkeyHohtay]

Doesn't have to be paid work. I'm a charity shop volunteer and we would LOVE to have someone like your daughter who is available over the summer when many of the other volunteers have time off. If she's savvy selling clothes online then she could photograph items to be sold through the charity's online portal, run the Instagram feed, and whizz through bags of sorting without having to stop to look up every brand name she comes across.

[DonkeyHohtay]

she sources the clothes by trawling through charity shops and looking for bargains and selling them on

Ah - missed this bit in your earlier posts. No to volunteering in a charity shop then. Clear conflict of interest. But there are lots of other voluntary things she could be doing.

[redbedheadd]

I love how every student job on this thread seems to be being presented as working at McDonalds or stacking shelves in a supermarket 😂 -- I've interviewed graduates who started online news/blog sites, taught themselves to code and made successful apps, managers of bars... it's also not just about "serving fries or stacking shelves" it's about learning to time manage around studying, having to get up and go into a job you don't enjoy because you have to, working in a team, following instructions, supporting new members of staff, dealing with the public, being responsible.

I'm one of those had a job since I was 14, by the time I graduated I'd been permanently employed for 7 years in various jobs, I didn't just work the holidays as I couldn't afford that - I worked through the year 16-20 hours a week. It taught me the importance of being amazing at time management, I knew I had a set number of hours to write 4000 words before my shift started at 2pm. I would get more work done in a morning than my friends got done all day because I had to. Graduated with a first class honours degree.

She needs to shift her thinking on what a job can offer her. If she doesn't need the money from a job, I would 100% do an internship in a company... I could never afford to do these but they provide a brilliant working experience.

[stucknoue]

What is she planning on doing ? If further study is a possibility then getting research experience over the summer is a real advantage (paid or intern) alternatively just getting any job is helpful - my friends kids are a barrister and solicitor now (he's a judge) and try worked in McDonald's during university because he wanted them to be grounded in the real world. The kind of summer work available depends on where you are, it's hard here as the city is quieter during summer, not a tourist place

[MrKlaw]

Is holiday work enough? My son is hoping to start this year doing Maths and personally I’d like him to focus on studies during term time as it seems a dense subject. But enough time between terms to get some work and try to save some towards his following years maintenance

[BubblesBuddy]

My sister works in a charity shop and scouts others for bargains! It’s her hobby and she sells things on eBay. She doesn’t buy and then sell what comes into her shop, obviously. I think lots of vintage sellers do that and certainly working in the charity sector after gaining experience via volunteering is perfectly possible and might be where her interests lie. Volunteering can give all the skills of paid work and can be better. Certainly CAB and being a house guide and greeter for the NT teach a lot of skills. When managers see a competent volunteer they often give additional interesting projects and DD was treated very well by them and did way more than any paid job would have given her.

One of the reasons she did this was Because it can be very difficult to get a holiday job in a rural area. Those that discriminate against these young people are being very unfair. Skills are what counts, not how they are gained - waged vs unwaged. Most assessment of a young person should be skills and competence based, not personal views of the recruiter.

If employers don’t care about degree holders, then I assume they are not running graduate recruitment schemes where all the trainees will be graduates and where personal opinion isn’t relevant. I’m delighted DD avoided such biased recruitment.

There are always some people who don’t need to work because families provide everything. Interestingly the Sutton Trust says it’s these advantaged young people who actually do better in the jobs market.

The other problem facing the DD is that she’s doing English. Recent research shows English is one of the worst degrees for getting a well paid graduate job. Philosophy isn’t great and arts subjects the worst, for obvious reasons. So, yes. She needs to up her cv but not necessarily in a role she doesn’t enjoy. Some employers, contrary to posters here, don’t give a fig about low level work!

[BubblesBuddy]

MeKlaw. Honestly, if he’s starting this year, let him settle in. It will be hard in the first term and I would let him get a routine. If he can get a summer job, get one. I would let him study without the need to have a job but make any holiday work count!

Apply for internships for second year summer vacation. He can look at suitable schemes now, filter the ones he might like, and look at closing dates etc. That will get him teed up for his future applications. Look at local opportunities as well. Hope that helps.

[Beautiful3]

Ive always had a part time job while at universities. I think it will be harder to get a job after university of she's never had a job.

[redbedheadd]

To be honest, I don't want to sound harsh but when your kids are at uni it's not about you letting them work or telling them to work. They are adults. They need the initiate to say I need to earn money or I need to improve my career prospects, or just it's important to have a job!This is one of the reasons so many graduates struggle, they are still in an adolescent mindset.

Working minimum wage jobs can also act as a powerful motivator to study hard at university so you can see that £6 quid an hour doesn't get you very far... my 17 yr old brother has two jobs whilst at sixth form and he knows when he has finished a whole shift that will get him a pair of jeans or some dinner at Nando's.

[Seniorschoolmum]

For heaven’s sake don’t fabricate experience. CV fraud is a criminal offence.

[VerenaR]

My DD will certainly not be fabricating experience - her friend who is in a similar position to her is thinking about fabricating experience. Would certainly not allow my daughter to do that - asides from being morally wrong, the truth will catch up with her

[Snog]

She needs to be aware that she is actually breaking the law with her ebay business unless it is registered with HMRC. It's also incorrect that you need to offer free P&P if you are a business seller.
These things might be a problem for her in the future.

[HoozTurnIsIt]

DS2 is about to graduate.
I tried to persuade him to do a year in industry and I urged him to start planning for job applications in the summer after his second year.
He did neither as he was struggling to decide what career he wanted to go for.
He has worked part time or during holidays since he was 16 tutoring and at a tourist attraction. He has found that both of these are immensely useful in completing job applications though he has only done a few and not got a job yet.

[Sophiesdog11]

Just to give you my DS’s experience, Op.

He got a retail PT job half way through YR12, worked 18mths until uni then went back to same company in uni city at end of first year (and through summer, was close enough to go back at weekends).

At start of second year, he started applying for Year 3 placement jobs. He got a number of interviews, including for 2 roles in a company that he is desperate to join in a niche role after uni.

He thought he had done well at both interviews at niche company but was initially turned down. Fortunately the successful candidate for one role backed out and DS got it instead.

He asked for feedback on the interviews once working in the company last summer, and was told that it was his answers to the scenario questions that marked him down.

I was gobsmacked. He had done 2 yrs in retail, DoE, volunteering abroad one summer - but still didn’t seem to have enough to fully answer the scenario questions! I realise that he may just not have got his point across well enough in interviews, but am not sure how much more work/volunteering experience he could have done.

I have a friend who is adamant that retail/bar/NMW jobs are too good for her sons. She has gone as far as to sneer at my kids retail jobs on a number of occasions. Neither of her DS have worked a day in their life so far. They are certainly not spoilt and entitled (parents very frugal) but just lazy and prefer gaming it seems. I know she was hoping that eldest would get an internship this summer, but as far as I know he has had no interviews (she certainly hasn’t mentioned them, which she normally would!).

He will be applying for industrial placements in the autumn. Her DH got a very good one back in his day and is still effectively with same company - I think they are sure that their eldest will have the same success. I am watching with interest!

[VerenaR]

Yes, my DD has applied for jobs before in the local town centre. Prior to interview for a large company, there was a scenario style questionnaire. She was refused on all three applications and did not progress to interview because the responses were not suitable.

Maybe she shouldn't apply there again this summer, but she is definitely getting a job somewhere !

[BrewdogMillionaire]

I don't think successfully answering scenario questions directly corresponds with work experience. Sometimes you're competing against people who are better at bullshitting their way through the answer to give the interviewer what they want to hear.

Also, personally I find the Civil Service Judgment Test impossible - I've done it so many times and still keep failing it. I have no idea what they're looking for, and yet I have plenty of good work experience behind me and glowing recommendations from all of my previous managers on my efficiency, conduct and ability to work with others.

Sometimes it's luck of the dice.

Nonetheless, some structured work experience will definitely help your DD better analyse what she wants to do in the future for her career (e.g. find out what she really DOESN'T want to do!). It will also help make her CV more appealing to prospective employers, many of whom are wading through tonnes of CVs from graduates who have been working for 3+ years by the time they apply!

[BubblesBuddy]

Many have not been working for 3 plus years when they apply for graduate schemes. That’s the whole point of graduate schemes! They choose recent grads. If everyone wants experience, then it’s no wonder grads cannot get jobs! How is a grad meant to get 3 years experience if no one employs or trains them?

If she’s failing to get work, try a different tactic. In-tray tests are not compulsory everywhere or “what would you do?”
scenarios. Some people will be far less demanding for a summer job. Do you know anyone who might offer her something?

I’m also never sure that working in a cafe tells you much about future careers. It might tell you what you don’t want, but not what you do want. Working out what you do want is important.

Buying and selling stuff at around £2000 pa isn’t going to concern anyone official! It’s like my DH selling our lawnmower. It’s her belongings she’s selling. That’s ok.

[BrewdogMillionaire]

Obviously not 3 years full-time experience, but 3 years of employment experience of sorts (e.g. part-time, or full-time during holidays).

We've been sifting through CVs at work for internships and the majority of the applications we get have at least 1 year's part time experience, and many have worked throughout their studies (i.e. 3-4 years). It's a real advantage over someone who may be clever on paper, but hasn't displayed that they are capable of working in a regular job.

My flatmates and I worked part-time jobs throughout our university studies, starting from first year to graduation. I can't think of anyone from my course at uni who didn't at least do summer jobs.

[grimupnorthLondon]

I agree that working minimum wage jobs may not tell you much about specific careers @BubbleBuddy but I think it can be a HUGE factor in making 6th formers/graduates appear more "grown up" when they get to interview.

Many (not all!) young people seem to have a kind of hyper-extended adolescence these days and I know (from dh who is a university lecturer) that they can continue to behave in quite a 'young' way whilst they do their degree, e.g. having their parents call in on their behalf, asking for 'guarantees' that they will be taught completely separately from the ex-friend they have fallen out with, expecting to be let off penalties for blatant plagiarism because of their anxiety. Universities are very accommodating these days, with staff under huge pressure from management to keep drop-outs to a minimum, and so it may only be when students they get to a "real world" job that they have to toughen up. We have had a few recruits over the last few years, with stellar academic records, who have been completely unprepared for a full time job (even a relatively well paid one in a comfy office).

If I see that an applicant has held down one or more minimum wage jobs for an extended period of time, that gives me confidence that they are reliable and unlikely to 'flake' on us after we've invested large amounts in recruiting and training them. It's not the only thing (successfully building a small business, which involves dealing with other adults in the real world, rather than just online selling is also a good clue that they have some get-up-and-go and resilience) but I find it a very good indicator.

[GarnierBBCream]

She's really putting herself at a huge disadvantage.

[Lazypuppy]

I used to be a retail manager and would get loads of cvs from students once they had finished uni with no work experience, most of the time i wouldn't even offer an interview, as compared to other cvs who did have experience.

Depending on course at uni (teaching is pretty full time) most courses are around 10hrs of teaching a week, how did they not have time to get a job?!