Which are the 23 universities singled out for unconditionals?And...

[Miljah]

...are most in financial trouble?

he applied common sense and accepted one of his two UiFs
Surely this is only common sense if he has accepted a UiF for a course he genuinely wants to do and not just accepted second best because it's the easy option.

If he's genuinely happy with his decision that is great and best of luck to him. But we are seeing an increasing number of students who accepted UiFs, realise during Year 1 the mistake they made in taking the easy option and then try, more often than not unsuccessfully, to transfer to the course they actually wanted to do.

And of course the way the numbers are at the moment, chances are he'll be accepted even if he misses his offer by a grade or two (

I know!

All his applications were for the same subject boys so there were no real distinctions between them all, tbh. He still had to choose one UiF over the other. He has been a bit of a nightmare all round so it was a relief when he did make a decision. I am not sure what you mean by the easy option. That would be the case, surely, if students applied to a course at a uni with a lower standard offer (eg a joint degree or criminology instead of/and Law) ? It wasn't like he knew he was going to get the Unconditional

I used easy option to mean choosing the UiF rather than the course you really want to do. Obviously even the same subject will be taught very differently at different unis but if he is sure he is happy with the course he's chosen then it's all good. It may even be that it's a happy coincidence that he got a UiF for his dream course!

It's just that I see lots of kids who are completely blinkered by getting a UiF and don't consider other options, then come to regret that later down the line. Uni's are giving out UiFs for a reason and it's not because they have too many applicants for their courses.

Honestly , boys, I did more research than him (just in my nature!) and you could put a cigarette paper between the different courses in terms of content. The one with the most appealing modules he just did not like on visit day. The one he likes the most has no accommodation left! And, yes, he did reject the highest offer one in favour of his UiF ,even though I think the higher one was more impressive on Visit Days. But it was more politics than IR and he prefers the IR stuff.And his UiF is higher in the league tables. So , it is a common sense approach. I am sure that there are issues in unis with so many students who have leapt at UiFs : but it is a bit patronising (sorry) to suggest that no research or decision making was made based on a range of factors.

Before going to study his particular subject at uni, a lot of the modules sound a bit gobbledegook-ish , and he is sure to develop his own tastes and leanings, I think, as time goes on. When I applied years ago for an English degree, the differences between course at different unis was more obvious.

One thing he did say is that he wished all the unis had been more informative on visit days about how they assessed students and what work they would be expected to do. In essence, I think he wanted to avoid anything too tech heavy , or based on too much 'group work' but it was very hard to establish.

Is there any stats on what the students actually achieved in their grades if they went in with a unconditional offer. I often wonder if they end up not actually trying. Then end up with a wake up call at uni whennthey have to step it up. How many actually drop out with unconditional offers.

There is : but as I said upthread it is not possible to prove that's why they dropped grades. It's an assumption that there is a causal link. The drop out rate would be interesting to see.

There is a graph at the bottom of this page re continuation rates :

www.officeforstudents.org.uk/publications/unconditional-offers-serving-the-interests-of-students/

Fairly obviously, I guess, continuation rates decrease the further down the academic scale students get, and drop out seems to be very high for BTec entrants. Unconditional entrants at every level exist are higher in drop out , but - oddly- swap at 'below BCC'.

In the country my hubby is from, universities is split into 2 divisions. The rigorous ones which there are 8 have some kind of government mark of standard and the undergrad degree is 3 years long. The other uni's which I think there is another 8-10 dont have the same status since they accept lower grades. Without having to dumb down the degree the government makes it compulsory that the degree is 4 years long at those institution to satisfy it to be degree status . I guess the extra year is like a foundation year get them up to speed and have to pass in order to carry on.

Piggy if you reread my posts you'll see that several times I said I would be very happy for your DS if he got a UiF for a course he wanted to do. Sadly not all (very few) applicants/their parents are as diligent as you and many jump blindly at the first UiF they get offered.

Yeah, I do know you said that but many students have more than one, so decision making still needs to take place...

I will just restate that I do like UiFs! He might well have chosen Lincoln without it : But what it did do was lead to a lot of procrastination over whether he should take a risk or play safe. By the time he had finished procrastinating his favourite conditional offer (NTU with no UiFs in sight!) really had no accommodation left. I think if he had more self belief that he could achieve his PGs at A level (and the desire to put in the work!) and if we knew with more confidence that so called 'better unis' had history of dropping grades for his subject, he might even have put different applications in. But this is where insider knowledge really does help!

"Is there any stats on what the students actually achieved in their grades if they went in with a unconditional offer"

According to Which and UCAS, in 2018 67% of those who held an unconditional offer as their first choice missed their predicted grades by two or more grades (compared to 57% of conditional first choice holders). This begs the question as to how much schools inflate grade predictions.

but many students have more than one, so decision making still needs to take place...
That's what I'm trying (but clearly failing) to get across. Many students just accept the first UiF they get and withdraw all their other applications. I appreciate probably not in MN world and certainly not if you're taking the time to post on this thread, but out there in the real world the sheer blessed relief of getting a UiF and the total lack of uncertainty that you'll get by accepting it is enough to entice many.
Even if that course wasn't your original first, second, third or even fourth choice.

piggy if I was him. I wouldn't take the UIF rather go through clearing and pic up a course or better uni from there. I come from a area where its low socio economic. Our local uni is dire. It's one of those on that list. Give out UIF like sweets. When our dd had a school reunion last year many that went to that uni are still in low paid jobs £15-18k. Theey never going to be paying the loan off . I dont know what is quite going off. But there must be something going on when it comes to getting graduate jobs and where they got their degrees from. Might be just our dd comp. They'd have been better doing a apprentice. But I also think that those that opted to stay at our local rubbish uni may have been hindered with the fact that they dont have that social mobility to move out of the area so they end up getting jobs after graduation in the same area. Low socio economic area not really got brilliant jobs on offer either.

His UiF is at a perfectly decent uni thanks choccy! I have no desire to go through the stress of clearing with him!

I do know what you mean boys. In our case, all his offers came in within days of each other (this was then prolonged by sitting an entrance exam) and I thought the UCAS site was pretty clear that you should wait but I'd have to go and reread. As it goes, I think the one he is accepting was one of the last offers to come in.

Looking back at the list on page one, I wouln't say there are actually any really dire unis on there (although I know nothing about Birmingham City and Loughborough College is obviously a very specific institution).

Those earning 18k pa at aged 21 : what do you think they would have been earning had they not gone to uni, in a socially deprived area, out of interest?

Yeah if your 25 years old still on 17k-18k with a degree I think that's not really that great. So we talking 4 years after getting the degree!! Not at 21years old

Dd who went to lower ranking uni said she wouldn't have been able to handle her sister course at the top uni. Dd at the top uni said she would would have found the course at lesser entry requirement uni too unscientific and not challenging enough.

That's been my DD's experience as well. There are two universities in her town with very different positions in the league tables, she knows people at the other university who are doing the same subject as her and they've compared work that they get and one is much less scientific and challenging. DD says the second year work she sees from the other university is about the same as her 1st year work was.

brizzlemint I don't suppose you can say which town this is?

It makes a mockery of degrees if they are so unequal. At least with GCSEs and A levels there is a level playing field. Also, it makes league tables more important.

If you are predicted AAA and get an offer THEN get ABC yes of course you may still get in but it's a risk.

That's what the insurance option is for. One aspirational and one more realistic/lower just in case it all goes wrong.

Ah, well that makes a bit of a difference. Statistically, they would still be earning less without the degree.

TapasforTwo it's a town in the south-west.

Thig is brizzle if your PGs are high, that gives you a better range to play with. if they are down at about BBC - BCC, you might go as high as BBB but below there aren't many unis profess to make offers at CCC. So, in the end my DS's application range was from BBB (which ended up offering CCD) to BCC, so not much difference really.