Which are the 23 universities singled out for unconditionals?And...

[Miljah]

...are most in financial trouble?

As a seasoned A level teacher I will point out there isn't as much difference betwen a B grade student and an A grade student as you might think (in some cases there might be one mark obviously!). B grade students do tend to present as fairly bright and articulate. In seminars and tutorials , the lecturer honestly might not spot the difference between an ABB and a BBB/C. The gap might appear in quality of written submissions or perhaps desire/ability to think independently or read widely.

Well it's a joke. The government has caused this by neoliberalising He and turning it into a marketplace by badly funding universities and now is shaming universities for trying to survive.

Agree!!!!!!!!

What exactly do you mean by neoliberalising?

I agree with your second sentence BTW.

Do you think that the perception of universities who make lots of unconditional offers is doing them an injustice. Does this make people take university league tables more seriously?

And a B student may simply be one who can't write quickly or neatly enough in exam conditions or who suffers with anxiety. They may actually be cleverer and deeper thinkers than the A grade student.

(Ds is described by one of his Eng lit teachers as the "most talented English student she's ever taught" but on results day we expect anything from an A star to a B, thanks to exam nerves. And he'll be on a course next year with other B grade students too (some of whom might be A star thinkers)...

This

And a B student may simply be one who can't write quickly or neatly enough in exam conditions or who suffers with anxiety. They may actually be cleverer and deeper thinkers than the A grade student

true, or the A/B divide may be partly a question of ability to memorise facts easily - again not something that would be reflected in seminars, discussion, coursework etc.

(I know ability to memorise isn't enough on its own, by the way! but other things being equal it may help with getting higher grades)

itsall, a little higher up mentioned AS levels going as an issue. I was talking to one of my twins about AS levels recently (they are both home from university for Easter). He said getting AAAA ( as did his twin brotehr) in his AS levels changed his life. He went from not feeling that good academically to feeling one of the best in the school, put a huge amount of work into his Alevels and went to a good university Bristol. He said he was not sure that would have happened without the AS levels. In some ways it is a pity they have gone. This might be sexist but particularly for some boys being that year older and with university more in sight/grasp they mgiht work harder in lower sixth than for GCSEs when they are only 15 or 16 and perhaps not as mature as some girls.

Interesting, Xenia. DC's school is one that still does AS levels for pretty much exactly the reasons you give - encouraging work in Y12 (and thus boosting A level results for some - interestingly other schools' A level results have dipped locally, but not this one) and encouraging aspirational choices for university based on the results.

It's been brilliant for DS (though as I said above he is in fact going down the music route instead). On the other hand, DD is probably moving to a sixth form with linear A-levels because she feels that preparing for AS levels means that in a couple of her subjects (Art in particular, where preparing an AS portfolio takes a lot of time) progress through the 6th form is too 'broken up'.

can'tkeepaway DD's school still did AS levels in year 12 (in 2017), but they were still linear, so her AS results didn't count for anything, except for the one she dropped.

The main reason for state schools dropping ASs was cost. Exams are expensive!

There was a distint band of students (often boys) who did not work hard for AS and, therefore, there was a high fail rate.

That said, I'd like them back, especially in my subjects where uptake has declined since there is now no AS option .

Tapas, one of my twins had 2 or 3 linear A levels and the other one fewer as far as I remember - they were in a changeover year so I cannot remember if the resut of each AS or only some went on the UCAS form. Either way it apparently encouraged him enough to help him do better, he says. Mind you his older brother did 4 AS levels and it didn't make an iota of difference to the work he put in (not much) so may be this is all just ancedotal.

Tapas Obviously none of the AS's count towards the A-level, as they are stand-alone qualifications now (obviously the school has selected ones where the syllabus overlaps with the first year of the A-level syllabus, so they revise once for AS, then revise the same stuff + Y13 work for A level).

All go on the UCAS form as qualifications, alongside the GCSEs, and then A-level predictions. So they 'count' in their own right, but don't 'count towards' the A-level grade. They will fade into unimportance once A-levels are taken - as e.g. GCSE History fades into unimportance once History A-level is taken - but their impact on focus and also belief in high grades being possible in selected subjects (DS has a spiky profile) was positive for DS at least. The school as a whole obviously continues to think it worthwhile, as even as a very poorly funded school in one of the poorest-funded counties it continues this policy - it's still on offer for DD, who would take ASs in 2020.

I know that maths and goverment and politics weren't linear for the 2018 A2 exams.

I'm amazed by that cantkeep. They are phenomenally expensive exams! When some subjects at my place said they wanted to keep them, they had to 'prove' they needed them (or that the school would somehow benefit), otherwise suggestions were made that either departments or students themselves would foot the bill for entry.

I'm glad we aren't forced to do it, mind, as the two subjects I teach are utterly un 'co-teachable' (ie the AS covers different materail from the full A Level : barkingly)

All subjects are now linear : maths , politics, film and a couple of others were the last to 'reform'.

DS takes 3 linear A-levels this term, and did 4 ASs last summer.

DD is currently in Y11 and will do the same if she stays in the same school for A-levels.

They must have identified boards which are co-teachable for all [20-25?] subjects, as apart from the vocational subjects taught, all students do AS levels after the first year and then A levels at the end of the second - usually dropping 1 after the AS results come out.

(They do a real mixture of boards - OCR, Edexcel, AQA, WJEC - presumably for this reason)

My subject (OK, I'll out myself!) is film. there are two boards, neither co teachable. I frequently have had to assure my HOSF and Head that this is definitely true. English Lit is not co teachable in most boards either unless teachers are gluttons for punishment.
Before someone pointed out that unis were not interested in ASs and influenced by certain people on SLT, we did have a plan for all students to do AS (at the beginning there was no joined up thinking and there still is not a consistent approach across or even within schools) and no one believed me when I bleated out it being impossible! It's also not easier : another myth that is peddled when a student is struggling is 'drop them down to AS' :which in English and film would mean learning new texts and doing an NEA!

In the end, the cost implications won out . But it has increased teacher workload as now we are setting and marking internal year 12 exams , of course. The government made a balls up, imo.

And a B student may simply be one who can't write quickly or neatly enough in exam conditions or who suffers with anxiety. They may actually be cleverer and deeper thinkers than the A grade student.

This pretty much sums up my dd. She did A levels about 3 years ago and had a coursework element for two of her subjects. She got very high marks for the coursework element but dipped in the actual exams so came out with B grades across the board. She had a gap year and applied to university with her grades in her hand. She knew by then that her strength lay in coursework and chose carefully a degree in her chosen subject at a (middle ranking) university that was entirely coursework assessed. She's just finishing second year and is more than thriving, she happier in herself and much more in tune with her own strengths.

Ah, thanks Piggy. Film isn't available, though they do do English Literature WJEC. Looks like they do 4 texts in each year, and recommend that 1 text from Y12 is used as 1 of the 2 needed for the NEA....

Does look a bit painful, tbh!

So this thread just proves my first post.
It is after all snobbery and the dislike of kids like mine been offered a place at university.

Because the last few posts have said there is no or little difference between a A and B graded student. So its fine for an uni to want AAA but take BBB.
But not for lower ranked uni to ask for BCC and take CCC on unconditional places.
my lad dropped one grade in one subject, the other example has dropped one in 3 subjects

Well it is nice to know, that people do laugh at kids like mine behind his back.

Please note in criminology he was marked for an A in his AS exam, he only did year 12 stuff in year 13, due to a school cock up. But got a C in his full A level his teacher put him in for without telling him.
So he got a C grade in A level with about 45% of the sylabus learned.

Snobbery. Thank god for the likes of Lincoln. So glad he didn't attempt for RG, hate to think he be looked down, when at Lincoln he is happy and well settled and respected by his fellow students.

I think I walk away fron this thread now, been a shit week for our family and I may say something that gets my banned.

I don't think most people would says BBB was anything other than worse than AAA and that three A stars was even better. My son thinks his life was changed by AAAA at AS level and I am certain had he got BBBB at AS level he would not have thought that and nor would it have had anything like the same effect.

However there is also some luck in it. I got AAB and I am not sure my B in German meant I wasn't great at it. Same with A stars - they are a bit unpredictable and hard to get. My AAB is better than BBB both in my day (when there were no A stars) and in 2019.

The bottom line is that for some of the higher paid jobs people will be lokoing at your A level grades and subjects even after you graduate so get the best ones you can manage. If you don't get that good marks in them don't worry too much as you can't change the past and people do manage to have evven high paid careers by other means. There is no point in fretting about it.

I agree with xenia in that BBB is of course not as academically good as AAA - dd will probably get something in the region of ABB or ABC and of course this puts her out of the running as far as top unis go. The trick in this case is to really look hard at the type of degree and maximise future earning potential by possibly taking a more vocational degree rather than purely academic at a lower ranked uni. That's my take on it anyway.

dd will probably get something in the region of ABB or ABC and of course this puts her out of the running as far as top unis go

She isn't out the running for top Unis. Many students who are likely to get ABB can get an AAA prediction - she can then apply pretty much wherever and then either get an unconditional or still get awarded a place even if she misses her offer, either at her chosen Unis or through clearing . There are plenty of students at 'top' Unis with ABB or ABC.

Do young people really just go to uni because of future earning potential. I'd be a bit sad if that were the case.