Which are the 23 universities singled out for unconditionals?And...

[Miljah]

...are most in financial trouble?

I also completely agree with BeansandRice about the obsessive nature of parents looking for the magic university. I think there is merit in researching some key elements; Course content, League tables, Location, visit etc but I think it can get to a point where its almost like looking for a needle in a haystack.There is some element of risk in all of them and sometimes the unexpected course picked up in Clearing from a uni never visited can be the one that comes up trumps.

I don't think it is obsessive. You should read some of the secondary school threads. At least with state schools we aren't subsidising our children's education, unlike university. DD won't be able to work term time as her course is full on, so we will be topping her up. Her maintenance loan won't even cover the cost of her accommodation.

I suspect this is why parents are interested in getting their children into the best universities for them.

the course leader bought 30 pizzas!

one of ours brought wine best results ever!!!

At least with state schools we aren't subsidising our children's education

Ahem! we all pay taxes, I hope. These pay for our children's education. All education needs to be paid for - it's just whether you do so directly, or indirectly.

And actually - taxpayers subsidise all Home undergraduates (not international students). Still.

But seriously - I'm not questioning parents wanting their DC to choose the best university to suit each young person - we all want that - a good fit so students learn & thrive and become the best version of themselves they can be (very von Humboldtian of me).

What I question are the posts (not all of them) on this thread and others in this section of MN, where parents obsess over or argue with each other about minutiae. Or even question or ignore university staff expertise about these things - which seems particularly bonkers if you're a parent trying to game the system!

Information is useful, but the kinds of details that I often read parents obsessing and arguing over here isn't the magic answer that some parents seem to want - because even more than secondary education, a university degree requires and relies on the individual student taking up as many of the opportunities for learning, and self-development, as they possibly can. A lot of those opportunities will be around independent learning.

So the nicest halls accommodation in the world or the most "passionate" or enthusiastic lecturers won't help if the student doesn't learn how to work both hard & smart. Fantastic library resources are great, but a student has to use them, not rock in the night before an essay or presentation and expect stuff there for them ... and so on.

I definitely am guilty of being slightly obsessive . Some of things i checked apart from the aforementioned:

Employment earnings for ds's course
Starting quite a few threads uni related
Reading all current uni related threads on MN including old ones
Checking every league table including global rankings..just a glance!
Phoning heads of dept at ds's chosen universities
Checking university facebook pages
NSS, UNISTATS
what uni
TSR
I think that's a bit obsessive?

Oh I think that's a bit unfair. I haven't seen any obsessing apart from the Oxbridge rejects thread

Ha ha except maybe from Shimy

@shimy you mean you haven't started threads in The Student Room forums asking current students their thought on their course?

Nico - I might have , I stopped once when a posted on TSR private messaged me and asked, "How old are you, really?" i was eek!

Phoning heads of dept at ds's chosen universities

I'm sorry, but that is really out of order. Why should you take up the precious time of a n HoD, when most things can be asked & answered at Open Days or visit days?

We HoDs are extremely busy people (I'm MNing today to get through the crashing boredom of redrafting & editing a 20 page policy document), and in between the 100 or so emails.

But apart from wasting the precious time of academics who see their family little enough (I'm unlikely to leave the office before 8pm tonight)
the main thing about that unreasonable behaviour is that it isn't YOU who'll be in our departments, it's your DC. It's your DC with whom we'll have a relationship, not the parents.

And actually, you're really not necessarily helping your DC - it's theior degree and if they don't have to make an investment of time & thought - if they're doing it because a parent is vicariously living through them - then that is a recipe for either dropping out, MH issues, or not doing very well.

I've seen this happen quite a few times over the last 30 years or so I've been teaching.

So shimy my best advice is relax, ;let go, back off - enjoy yourself rather than get so worked up.

Beans - I phoned the university to ask for information that was not on the website, prior to DS narrowing down his choices. The websites do say to phone for further information which i did.

The first two happened via admissions. It was also during the holidays as although i know work still goes on, it might have been a bit calmer. They were both happy to discuss with me and infact i was the one trying to round up the conversation!

Two of them started via an online conversation with a student rep, who couldn't answer my query. I then got an email directly from the HoDs passed on by the students, asking when i 'll be free for them to call me to have a conversation. They were all extremely helpful and asked me to call again if i had any other query.

My role as parent is to support my dc and asking for information that he might not have thought of in finalising his options, is part of that before he makes the leap. If that means speaking to someone before he signs on the dotted line then so be it. I hopefully will not need to ring for anything once he infact becomes an undergraduate.

I appreciate you are tired and overworked but you really can't speak on behalf of other HoDs.

Gosh, it all kicked off a bit! I am actually genuinely frightened for my DS that he will crash and burn and/or be very isolated and unhappy. That's one of the reasons I have spent so much time trying to do some digging on the softer data rather than the employment stats. I have found lecturers very keen to talk and very friendly on visit days on the whole so it's been reassuring. Just as a shout out, Hull was the most friendly by a country mile!

I've had phone calls from parents before and I don't mind. I mean I'd rather have phone calls from the prospective student but as a parent of an 18yo I sympathise.

I did do a bit of digging around to find universities who would take dd with her non straightforward history and mix of btec and A levels - sent a couple of emails. But I haven't got too involved - for a start this absolutely has to be dd's decision and she really needs to feel that she owned it herself.

Bath applicant day was the first day I had been to where parents really made themselves felt. One father asked questions after every speaker. He was really embarrassing actually and I felt sorry for his kid. I know its a lot of money but honestly, just cool your jets! The lecturers spoke to him very politely but it just seemed super weird. I think I've already told the story that dd went for her one to one and the girl next to her was on her phone while her parents asked all the questions. That's just totally nuts.

DS went to open days on his own but I accompanied him for the applicant days. We actually split up into separate groups and went to different talks where possible. Some had talks for students and another for parents. We reconvened at the end.

I think universities need to recognise that parents forking out thousands of pounds are stakeholders too and will make enquiries and should gear up for that. I do draw the line at making a show of oneself at open days, and taking over question time (which really is intended for
the students), poor dc must have been cringing so badly.

I went to the open days with DD. There was no choice as bastard Northern Rail were on strike every Saturday between August and January this year. Also, DD just wouldn't go on her own. I didn't ask any questions and let DD do the talking. And when she went on her offer holder day I just dropped her off at the door and met her later. I did do the accommodation tour with her though.

DS managed the entire audition process (for 6 institutions) solo. DH did go with him to an Open Day a year in advance (when it was just for interest), but that has turned out to be the place where DS goes every week for junior conservatoire anyway, so DS has ended up knowing it very well.

I can see that for a niche passion, and a self-motivated DC, the whole setup is very different from a family in which it is 'the next automatic stage of schooling.

In fact, I use DS's self-motivation (he's generally deeply laid back) as a measure of his genuine desire to do this course. Set the challenge of 'Apply if you wish, but as it's in term time you need to get yourself to the auditions' or 'Organise accommodation' or 'You'll probably need Grade 8 on at least 1, probably both instruments', he's just got on and done it.

I haven't read all the thread but on access a girl wanted a specific course and was told 30 distinction credits. She got three but was given a place on clearance. She's massively struggling.

It's arses on seats because it's a business.