Which are the 23 universities singled out for unconditionals?And...

[Miljah]

...are most in financial trouble?

Three years ago we had a UiF from Birmingham Uni which was Aaa if not, then Aab from Bristol and Aaa from Sheffield. Dd was tempted by Birmingham initially but went for the other two as firm and insurance because she preferred them. I think they do risk getting students into the wrong universities for them,

Not all on the list are in financial trouble. Some were using conditional unconditionals to attract high achievers rather than bums on seats pay the bills.

But shouldn't Unis attract students with good teaching/reputation/ranking instead?

Some extremely good unis are doing it as a tactic to confirm applicants that they'd otherwise risk losing to the U.K. top 5 in A level results day. Sixth formers are under huge stress. It's tempting to some. Although anyone with a realistic shot at a "better" course/institution is best advised to hold their nerve.

All I would say is that consider the reason the university is offering an unconditional offer. Does that coincide with your DC's aspirations. EE at Oxford is irrelevant now. They now want minimum AAA after interviews and pre tests. Some universities may want talented pupils and will give them a low offer. But if said DC can do well - then - maybe if they think they can go to somewhere better - play the hand ( i.e. get the grades) If the offer is genuinely because they are talented then that is good. Of course it is. But a lot of DCs have to go through getting the grades. It's just a thing. So I would say - choose the right course at the place you want to go and try not to be swayed by an unconditional offer. Lovely for 6 months , not to have to worry , - but you will be at the university for 3 years. If it is the right one, and unconditional - fantastic - all is brilliant.
Ds had a friend who accepted an u/c and DS suspects he wish he hadn't. Again - pure anecdote. Also a year out doesn't have to be viewing the Himalayas or painting in Florence. It can be earning money for subsequent years whilst reading for subject ( I do realise this means probably somewhere cheap to live - e.g. home )

Oh well - my tuppence worth. DS is doing a post graduate thing which may well be a 2 year shot. But he does have the advantage of being able to live at home and we shall see.

Lincoln do NOT offer CCC. The standard offers for their 3 year courses range from BBB to BCC. The PP had a son with an UiF who got CCC in the end (which researchers might well link to the UiF, maybe spuriously). The post does say the original offer was somewhere around BB - BCC depending on which one it was.

The lowest offer my DS got which was not UiF was CCD , after an exam . Easily achieved,this was not enough to tempt him becuase - believe it or not- he considered a range of factors (for a Veeeeeery long time!). He doesn't know about the hoodie ( I have only seen this on FB) and won't wear it when he gets it.

I am not sure why the focus on Lincoln bubbles. There is a real range of unis engaging in this ploy. Other than shut down (which is VERY unlikely to happen with Lincoln), I am not sure what you suggest. When I went to Aber on a Visit Day WW3 almost broke out ebtween 2 lectrurers about Unconditionals so the academic community aren't agreed. no doubt, there will be conversations raging in very high places in many unis form the likes of Birmingham, right down to Lougborough College. No doubt they will come up with a new strategy. Who knows why Birmingham is struggling to recruit, with its fine and longstanding reputation, but it clearly is. Nottingham has stopped the practice of UiFs, as has Aberystwyth, but they must have put something in its place. Aber ogffers platinum gym membership to offer accepters and there is a huge range of awards and scholarships, with reduced offers and financial incentives.

According to Which University, the average A Levels on my DS's course at Lincoln are between BBC - CCC. This is actually the same as, for example , Swansea, and higher than some institutions I found.

These unis being mentioned are all more stable than UCFB , for example, which has terrible reviews online , a very low entry rate, high drop out : but is not on the hit list.

I wonder whether the popularity/takeup of uifs has increased with the end of AS levels. It is more scary going into A levels without any marks in hand (apart from coursework), and no 'official' indication of how you're doing. With AS levels you had some 'official' confirmation of what level you were at at the end of yr 12, and you also knew that you only needed a certain number of marks to pass at all. (Though perhaps that is less relevant when you need A/B to meet an offer.)

Accepting a uif may not just be about reducing stress (although there is a place for that!)- it also does ensure that a student gets a university place which would not be assured if relying on getting the grades. I don't think it's obvious that that works against that student's interests.

What was the Aber pro-uif academic's reasoning Piggy? I hear a lot of criticism of uifs but somehow am not convinced, but it would be interesting to hear the view of an academic.

He kept saying 'well, we have differing views' and then not saying . It was all a bit implicit. It was irritating at the time becuase it was one of those occasions when a parent hijacked a conversation so I got a bit bored. But he was the admissions guy and the other one was the (fairly recently appointed) HoD, so it was all a bit awkward!

I got the impression that he realised the existence of market forces a bit more and that the HoD was more in his ivory tower assuming all roads for politics lead to Aber. From the actual chalkface the admissions man was maybe more aware... but I also got the impression that he was more into social inclusion and understood that there were a range of reasons why young people might be dissuaded for attending uni.

I don't think - workload wise- all unis could be persauded to do marked entrance exams to reduce offers or offer unconditionals/ other incentives. But, to me, that would be a good solution. There is no doubt to me that Hull lost my DS by offering no incentive at all. Which, given Hull's recent slide down the league tables amy suggest they are tryign to increase the entry profile of their students. But it may bite them on the bum as they may now get loads - with lower grades - through clearing.

It is not true that everyone is anti UiFs, that's for sure. Many parents like them and , it seems, so do quite a lot of academics.

Ah that's interesting Piggy!

Just trying to work through the implications for universities of the criticisms. One criticism is the 'conditionality' of uifs. So just thinking about it, if a university makes an 'unconditional whether you make it insurance or firm' offer, the student is more likely to make that university the insurance. So the university only gets that candidate if s/he doesn't achieve the grades needed for the firm. If it's uif, the university also gets the candidate if s/he gets high grades. (Assuming candidate doesn't just pull out and reapply for the following year with the higher grades.) So uifs are not just about getting numbers, they are also about getting numbers of higher-grade-achieving students.

I think the view is that universities shouldn't be trying to raise the achievement level of their students through this means. I do see the point that it puts a lot of pressure on a student to accept when s/he might get the grades to go somewhere with a higher ranking reputation (but also might not get the grades to go to either of them, which is an important part of the equation!) Ok, fair enough. But then should scholarships, additional grants, insert other incentives, also all be ruled out - they're all a means of persuading students to accept an offer from that university rather than a potentially higher ranking one?

Why would being campus based affect whether a university gives out loads of unconditional offers?

Tapas Where did I say it did?

I asked because we actively looked for campus universities and although DS didn't apply to Lincoln could be on our radar on results day.

If you are actively looking for campus, I would say Lincoln is not what you mean. I like campuses, too, because I like the green space,and always wonder if non campus unis are a bit claustrophobic. Hull and UEA are definitely proper (and very nice) campus unis shimy of the ones we have visited. I do think the term campus is used very confusingly these days!

Yes obvious, in a nutshell that is the thinking , I think, of pro UiF university staff. Most unis will tell you they give UiFs to students likely to meet or exceed their offer so, despite what PPS say, it is actually a gamble to raise intake academic standards , as well as to get 'bums on seats'. Portsmouth actually stated quite clearly that my DS got his UiF because his PGs exceeded the entry requirements (which obviously opens a whole other can of worms at the application stage!) and I believe this is Birmingham's stance, too.

Piggy - DS liked UEA very much, but in the end decided the course at Swansea (also a campus) was better. Funnily enough his first choice isn't a campus uni at all but in a very somewhat lively town, in the centre, and everything is close, much like how perhaps Lincoln is? But i'm preparing myself that if on results day he doesn't meet his grades then somewhere like Lincoln might be more flexible with their offers🤷🏾‍♀️ who knows?

It's all a lottery! Hopefully, your DS will get his grades and all will be well anyway!

Hope all of them get their grades, then we can have an MN party!
I think the eve of results day i'll be up all night unable to sleep 😫 no doubt ds will be sleeping.

Shimy you didn't. Another PP pointed out that Lancaster was non RG and campus based, so I read that as being a reason for them to give out unconditionals. I'm happy to be corrected though.

Bubblesbuddy
You can not read can you.
I repeat Lincoln's offer for Criminology was BCC or 104 tariff points. Or UiF was included on page 2 of initial offer.
Hull offered BB or 80 points but only from 2 a levels.
UCScarborough offered BCC or 104 points.
He chose Lincoln.
He could have chosen Derby 96 points or Bradford 104 or Salford 80 points.
He says he just above average on his course of 200 1st years.
Sadly not every child can be 3 A* students.

Lincoln is flying, its is one of only 6 univerities leading the governments attempts of modernising elections. The first uni to train up new healthcare assistants for NHS and is opening a doctor training centre, under Nottingham this September. It is also going to lead on a techinical uni too.

Campus wise it is long and thin. Based right in centre next to St Marks retail development. It is either side of the railway lines and right next door to Brayford wharf, it looks up steephill to the Catherdal and Castle, which it uses both for graduations.

Much off the so called off campus accomodation is closer to lectures then the on campus ones.
Ie Junction is above one of Ds lecture and seminar rooms, is off campus, whilst Ds on campus courts 4 is a good 15 to 25 minute walk depending on train movements.

Although college halls are similar to other unis, his flatmates have a house for next year, all ensuite, free tv licences, free unlimited wifi and washing machine for £80 per week.
Lincoln is also cheap for food and beer.

By the way bubblesbuddy
Lincoln where up front about wanting Ds from 24 hours from him applying.
But he got emails on results from the following
Surrey, Nottingham (not TU either) and Leicester unis all offering law degrees available through clearing if he needed one.
All with CCCD, but all wanted ABB or AAA for standard offer.

I find the above much more dishonest and disgusting to be honest. They lie to kids who where offered AAA. But you never hear Mr Hinds slagging of RG universities for that, oh no

"I find the above much more dishonest and disgusting to be honest. They lie to kids who where offered AAA."

I totally agree. What is the point of setting entry level grades and then reducing them after results day? Those who were already accepted with AAA will be working alongside those who achieved BBC, for example. How will the lecturers deal with such a wide range of ability?

It makes a mockery of the current system. There is an argument for making offers after results day, although I don't know how all the admin - student finance, accommodation etc can be dealt with in such a small window of time.

There is an argument for making offers after results day, although I don't know how all the admin - student finance, accommodation etc can be dealt with in such a small window of time.

It works perfectly well in most other countries. In Germany the Abitur (A level) results come out early enough to apply by the 15th July deadline for University applications. Courses start in October. Works perfectly well.

Tapas, that's for clarifying i didn't read that far up . I totally agree about universities and their misleading standard entry requirements. It was one of my bug bears and very much influenced how DS chose his Unis. Coming at it from a different angle, Sussex for instance, were in clearing last yr, Computer science & AI 'BBC'. Their standard offer is AAB -BBB, DS predicted 'BBB'. They made him an offer of AAB so he declined their offer. But a little birdie tells me they are going to be in clearing again for that same course this yr. Why not just offer it as BBC?

"Why not just offer it as BBC"

I suppose there may be 'cachet' associated with having high grade requirements; and if a university offers as BBC then it may be less likely to get the students applying who are predicted triple A*.

It does seem to me like another good reason for having all applications after A level grades are known and end the system of applying with predicted grades. Very interesting to hear about other countries like Ireland and Germany - if they can do it , it cannot be beyond the finest academic brains to sort out a system here as well!

But in Germany their results are out a whole month before A levels are.

I suppose there may be 'cachet' associated with having high grade requirements; and if a university offers as BBC then it may be less likely to get the students applying who are predicted triple A*.

You're right. But what happens is they will end up with students offering from AAB to BBC. I do wonder how the BBC ones cope? how do they 'differentiate' when teaching/tutoring etc and the AAB students must be just a bit wee bit pissed off...

Yes, I wonder what the dates are in Ireland? It would be interesting to know.

Maybe A level exams would need to be brought forward by about a month - so there might have to be slightly less content in them? Not perfect, but it could have advantages if everyone then applies with known grades.

DS has an EE offer - for a Conservatoire course. The rigorous round of auditions seemed to me a much better way of selecting on music performance ability and potential than his 3 A-levels (only 1 related to Music).

As he is almost certain never to earn a living wage as a musician, there is plenty of encouragement to keep working to have A-levels to fall back on ... but perhaps a little less angst and a lot more daily music practice than we would have otherwise.

Yes Shimy, and I think also it may be another example of a case where some people/families/schools know to look behind the offered grades, and others don't realise that there are such differences.

The information may well be readily available (though I admit I haven't been able to find it - closest thing is achieved 'points' which is not the same!), but you have to know to look for it.