How involved should you be once child at uni

[swimmer4]

Son isn’t revising for exams. Do we say anything?

I second that, and would also say that there may be other options as well as retaking. At my university, it is possible (for example) for a student to apply for special dispensation to have their exams marked in the understanding they were disadvantaged. It's possible to tailor the course to their needs - so, for example, a student might be allowed to sit their exams over a longer period, or might be permitted to take a coursework paper instead of a written exam.

IME universities have rigid rules and aren't always good at explaining how allowances are made to those rules, but it's always worth asking and making sure everything possible is being done. Universities don't want students to fail - it counts against their ratings.

I really worry about this. It used to be that most people left school at 14 and went to work. You can still get married at 16, have children, join the army at 16, yet at 18, 19, 20, 21 the prevailing attitude towards the apparently most academically capable people, undertaking academic study of a topic of their choosing in a place of their choosing aren't adults yet and need their parents to tell them they need to do some work? Really?! University is a bloody safe and forgiving environment in which to grow into adulthood without catastrophe looming if you make a mistake. How old will they be before becoming 'the finished article' if parents won't take the stabilizers off by now?

University is a bloody safe and forgiving environment in which to grow into adulthood

I don't believe that's true. Universities can behave in ways which employers would find themselves at an employment tribunal over, and although the support is there, students who fail to access it get a bloody rough ride. And accessing the support is (a) the classic middle-class "I can navigate the NHS" stuff which involves a lot of cultural capital and (b) something which people in the throes of a mental health crisis, or just staring at the walls of their room and panicing about their work, aren't very good at.

Middle class kids with supportive parents get through university, even if things go wrong. Kids without that support drop out when things go wrong. Sad, but true. Universities aren't the place to play IF DUUFERS BEST DROWNED, because things can go wrong, and escalate, very quickly: a month is the best part of half a module, for example.

Middle class kids with supportive parents get through university, even if things go wrong. Kids without that support drop out when things go wrong. Sad, but true.

And I call as my first witness rates of mental illness at Oxford or Cambridge (very high, and rising), rates of non-completion at Oxford or Cambridge (very low, and falling) and measures of deprivation at Oxford or Cambridge (very low, and certainly not rising).

"And accessing the support is (a) the classic middle-class "I can navigate the NHS" stuff which involves a lot of cultural capital "

This 100x this.

I don't think comparing collegiate universities to non collegiate is especially valid, in terms of accessing pastoral support. The collegiate system has safety nets absent elsewhere. Frankly, middle class DC who suffer with serious mental health issues are vulnerable anywhere, but less so because of the set up at Oxford and Cambridge. I don't think you should minimize in that rather glib way. Also, plenty of middle class parents are part of the problem, as opposed to being a positive influence on their children, or 'supportive'.

Millicent unfortunately many unwell DC including at Oxford and Cambridge are resistant to seeking out help, middle class or not, precisely because of their illness. It's not as straightforward as Keneft makes out.

KeneftYakimoski is right. Being away from home and the self-drive needed for University study are huge steps. DD will survive a problem flat: her private school encouraged her to seek help when she needed it; she had been taught beyond the syllabus, was good at time management and also used to not being top of the class; she was in an environment where she was only one Facebook friend away from many people she met; and we could afford to drive down, or give her a train fare home, when she needed a break.

She has already seen one girl, probably on an access/contecxtual offer, drop out and is watching as a second flounders. Peers have tried to support but there is only so much an 18 year old can do.

Up to a point Lord Copper.

At what point do you begin letting someone make choices and decisions and go on to experience the results of those choices and decisions? Perhaps sooner rather than later because if you leave it too long they don't learn this lesson.

"Millicent unfortunately many unwell DC including at Oxford and Cambridge are resistant to seeking out help, middle class or not, precisely because of their illness."

Yeah, well, you have to know that the help's available before you can resist seeking it out. And having parents who know how to navigate the system is a big step in that direction.

"She has already seen one girl, probably on an access/contecxtual offer, drop out and is watching as a second flounders."
Yes, I am sure all the kids who struggle at University are on "access/contextual offers". Never does any good-letting people get above their station. It doesn't make them happy, you know, giving them "ideas".

Yes, I am sure all the kids who struggle at University are on "access/contextual offers". Never does any good-letting people get above their station.

Take that chip off your shoulder. That isn't what was meant, and is absolutely not the thing. We fall over ourselves to recruit and support students from non-traditional backgrounds. They also drop out at a higher rate. A much higher rate. What we do about that is a constant topic of discussion, and it is precisely because people who have PhDs and a job as a lecturer don't have a pair of those shoes to walk a mile in that makes the task harder. But it would be ludicrous to pretend it is not the case. It's only by identifying the problem that we can do something about it.

Case in point: non-traditional students are much more likely to be undertaking, and reliant on, part-time work while studying. They are much more likely to have domestic commitments. They are much more likely to have money problems. I know MN is full of "oh, all students take part-time jobs" but actually, most here in the RG don't.

Millicent most DC at Oxford and Cambridge are fairly bright and reasonably literate. There are notices all over college and in university buildings drawing students' attention to help available. That doesn't require a mummy's help. I was taking issue with Keneft's logic about Oxford and Cambridge. The general points made about steps up etc are perfectly fair.

At times I feel as if I am in a parallel Universe.

1. I have a friend who is going through a nasty divorce. If she were to phone suggesting we meet up, I would clear my diary drive 50 miles and be ready to listen. Why on earth would I not do thesame for my daughter.

1. If I have a new colleague who is struggling because they lack experience, I hope I would reach out and help them survive the initial difficult few months. Which is what DD and her peers have tried to do with their peers who dont have the same comfort zone/headroom that they do. They have found it tough, and can see why others, without the same advantages, would find it tougher. Unfortunately it does not look as if it will be enough.

I am constantly amazed to hear people on Mumsnet suggesting that once your child hits 18 they should be cut adrift to sink or swim. It's very odd.

Who is that addressed to Needmoresleep?!

I personally would do anything for my DC. However, my points about Oxford and Cambridge and the complexity of issues surrounding mental health in university students can't all be resolved by the intervention of a middle class mummy. It's minimizing the issues to a horrendous degree.

Well I'm not in that league Millicent but unfortunately some serious mental health problems aren't capable of being solved by waving the magic middle class wand. That's rather a different thing from saying parents have to cut their children adrift.

"unfortunately some serious mental health problems aren't capable of being solved by waving the magic middle class wand." obviously. But you did say that there were plenty of signs up in Oxbridge colleges and reading them does not need a "mummy's help"...

However, my points about Oxford and Cambridge and the complexity of issues surrounding mental health in university students can't all be resolved by the intervention of a middle class mummy.

It's a good thing no-one is saying that.

What people are saying is that given two students in the same position at the same university, an advocate who will (a) encourage them to seek support, which they may not realise they need and (b) help them navigate that support, will probably have a positive effect. No-one (here, at least) is saying that mummy will make it better; they are saying that an adult with the social (and actual) capital to help navigate it will help.

I know multiple people who within the last five years had serious mental health crises as undergraduates at Oxford. In each case, the advocacy of their parents and, in fact, their parents' private health insurance were contributory to their recovery; in large part, because parents in regular contact with their children sensed something was wrong and encouraged them to seek support.

There is also a serious problem in differing attitudes to seeking help. It is sometimes said - primary isn't my field, I don't know if this is true - that middle-class parents actively seek statementing of their children when because they realise it unlocks resources and help, whereas other parents resist statementing because they see it as judgemental and shaming. It is certainly the case that middle-class students are more willing to seek help, whereas non-traditional students (and, slightly off the topic, particularly overseas student) attempt to struggle through and then are treated badly when they seek retrospective mitigation.

Millicent that was simply because you said that DC need to know that there's help available. No student at Oxford or Cambridge can fail to know it's available, given the plethora of notices and the provision of college welfare teams publicizing support available. A mummy is not required to bring that to a student's notice, at Oxford and Cambridge.

Unfortunately there can be a gulf between knowing help is there and asking for it. But my point was specifically in response to your own: ' Yeah, well, you have to know that the help's available before you can resist seeking it out.'

Keneft I'm leaving it here, but perhaps you're generalizing in the case of Oxford because the cases you know of happen to concern middle class students.

Basically, and speaking as a middle class person, everything is easier if you are middle class. That's what privilege means.

That may be true of Oxford or Cambridge, but it really is not true elsewhere. DD received some fantastic big-sister type support from her accomodation's senior resident (a Post-Graduate who lived in hall in exchange for cheap accomodation). You really are not going to go to a central University welfare department to complain about an inconsiderate flatmate even though weeks of missed sleep have left you sinking. There are all sorts of ramifications around reporting a flatmate, including whole flat fines, and serious problems for would-be lawyers or medics should drugs then be found in any of the communal areas.

However to save money the University are planning to withdraw senior residents. My guess is that DDs University has a higher drop out rate than Oxbridge, even though the initial intake may be, on average, less perfectionist or highly-strung.

No student at Oxford or Cambridge can fail to know it's available, given the plethora of notices and the provision of college welfare teams publicizing support available.

Nor at any other university. That doesn't stop people falling through the cracks.