Medical School Pondering

[kaykay72]

Hi all,

I’ve been reading a bit of the epically long medical school application thread, you all seem so knowledgable about the unis and the process, that I wondered if you could give me some thoughts on our situation please?

D has wanted to be a surgeon for as long as I can remember, used to aspire to go to Cambridge but wavers in that now. Strong academic and sporting record. Developed an illness in the run up to her GCSEs, sat exams (pre diagnosis but on diagnosis was told illness had been present around 6 months before exams, came out with 6A, 3A, 2B. Ended up missing year 12 due to treatment and extended hospital admission, but has fought like a warrior and restarted year 12 with next cohort. School have already said that she’ll have a medical attachment to her UCAS form to explain gap and the opinion that she underperformed at gcse due to illness. First half of year 12 going well, medical situation all good. Has part time job, is currently predicted A, A*, A - and school don’t give predicted grade for further maths at this point. Is back at her sport, working her way back up (she was a national level competitor), completing a diploma in this which carries UCAS points (equivalent to a B grade A level) and has just passed a coaching qualification as she coaches a bit at her club. Trying to fit in some WE/voluntary work but difficult to access and fit in with study/work/training. Has booked (and self funded) an overseas medical work shadowing trip later in the year.

She’s starting to shortlist unis for 2019 - she’s looking for places that do dissection rather than prosection, would prefer a campus uni (has a non medic family member at Nottingham, where they also cater well for her sport) and does not like the idea of too high a proportion of PBL

I’ve got little idea of how the various scoring systems work or which unis might suit or consider her - or whether Cambridge is still a reasonable goal for her (although she’s not sure their course is what she’s looking for). Can anyone offer any advice or opinions?

Thank you 😊

I totally agree Herodshelper and concluded to the same. Without blowing my trumpet, I am not sure DD would be where she is if it wasn't for the support I was able to provide with the knowledge I gained.

Once again, there is a difference between a kid with top 12 GCSEs, and an natural ability to ace tests like UKCAT and BMAT AND who interview naturally brilliantly, and a kid who has to find ways to go around the fact that they haven't done as well with these markers.

When a school will only interview applicants with 10+ A* GCSE, you've already got a foot in the door without consideration of anything else. Many kids, especially those attending local average comprehensive will not have a clue that GCSEs alone can have such a huge impact on their chances to get in.

I asked the Head of the local comp DD has gone too whether anyone had ever got 10A* or more. This is a large school. He said that he could only recall one girl doing so in the last 5 years and all her options were in the performing arts (not saying these are easier but that it wasn't a candidate interested in science). The aim of the school is to maximise the number of pupils getting A-C. Still I love that school and am glad my children attend(ed) it. They were very supportive and encouraging of DD's aim to study medicine, even though they were totally clueless as to advising her how to go about it!

Agh competitive hand-off'ish'ness. 😉

(I made that word up!)

No that's incorrect IThinkThatsWeird. It's the logical response when accused of being wrong when one says huge parental intrusion into the application process is required. It tends to be snarkypuss people who repsond as you've done. I'm aware it's a lose lose situation but I'm cheerily unbothered!

Medical applicants are much more special than other DC
It's only you that equates extra support and more demands with being more 'special'. I don't even know what being more 'special' under these circumstances mean? Do parents think their children are more special when they decide to work PT rather than FT to give them more attention?

DD is the only child amongst a large group of friends (one whose parents are both GPs but is not interested in pursuing that career) whose decided to take Medicine. It's definitely been a more stressful experience for me and her, but I don't see myself as more special than my friends as a result, nor my daughter. It's just a different route. I expect some of them might find themselves under more pressure/stress when their kids leave Uni and enter the world of employment. Will their children be more special then?

My DS most likely won't be going to Uni but take the route of an apprenticeship. Will he be less special because I -hope- the process won't be as labour intense? Not in my eyes!

Goodbystranger, you pretend to post in an open-minded way to promote discussion, which is absolutely fine, but your choice of words are loaded with condescension. I was initially opened to consider your points of view until it became clear that your experience of the process was not half what most posters have been through. You can word it as you want, but I definitely know that if DD had had 12 A*s and only opted to do the BMAT, I too would have found it much much easier (sudden memory of waiting for the final UKCAT results and only a few days to discuss with DD whether to put Manchester, Exeter, Plymouth or UEA as her 4th choice. As it stands, she would have got an interview at all, but hindsight is priceless!)

I like your word ITTW!

On the elite sport side of universities it is typical to spend 10 hours plus training in addition to matches away across the country - no academic departments give any let up to elite sports students and there is often pre season training before uni starts. My son says the medics and engineers all drop sport at that level in the end. I know non medics who were near national level who dropped to department or college level, particularly rowers and rugby. Rugby is almost at the same level as professional and live streamed too, I don’t know about athletics though. Great if you have the energy, talent and organisational skills to carry on - there is clearly much to be gained from it but worth being realistic.

Goodbyestranger. I have multiple kids. One older did the Cambridge/Imperial thing. It was trivial in comparison. No work experience required. A couple of little tests, one of which was zero revision. Not the very least of it being had three other offers the day after applying for Bath, Bristol and Edinburgh. His girlfriend got 5 offers in a week at similar places. The stress was trying to talk him into cutting his gaming time allocation.
Number two could have 5 offers in a week from similar places. Has even better results. Not for medicine. For medicine he has spent 4-5 man months running around at half a dozen different jobs and revising for bonkers tests. Followed by god knows how much time practising for four testing interviews. Has four offers to show for it. I am on my knees with it all. I must have driven about 3000 miles at least, if not more.
The only that's special about all this is the ridiculous hoops that kids are made to go through, which half the time are tossed aside without a thought by one college or another. And as an earlier poster says, it does seem to result in hundreds of normal schools not having the slightest chance of sending anyone to medical school, but some sending dozens.

I don't like this thread it's verging on unpleasant & I don't see that all that arguing boasting of grades debating about Oxbridge, A grades etc is of any use to any of the DCs.

Kids from state schools & those with mediocre grades can do this if they apply carefully. They just need to get an interview. Uni's see through the bluff & bluster when they come face to face.

Parental assistance through research, time & support is invaluable and strategic application the key. We've proved that too this year. That information is personal to the applicant & cannot be bought.

The application process & the build up year has been incredibly stressful for DCs & family. DCs show outstanding resilience getting to offer/ rejection stage. So much emotional energy is invested in this process that I've not got time or inclination for such squabbling.

As for "special", all our DCs are special to us & that's all that matters. We choose to discuss the process on Mumsnet because we should understand what each other is going through & support, celebrate & commiserate the highs & lows. We have also shared really useful information was useful to us back in Sept before closing dates & which could be of real use to next year's applicants.

Medicine is medicine, wherever you get in. Just choose the city, campus, staff & method of teaching that suits your DC. They need to be happy & healthy.

That's it from me. Good luck.

Well said SomersetS! As I said I do have experience both as a parent and teacher. I never implied that children applying for medicine are more special, simply that it is more stressful. I cannot see how this is in doubt. At Christmas, everyone in my DS’s friendship group had multiple offers and every single one had an unconditional offer. He goes to a state school so nothing unusual. My DS had no offers until early March and having watched him in tears prior to his last MMI interview, saying how terrified he was of not getting any offers, I think I can safely say it is way more stressful than other applications. It is a huge rollercoaster and not for the faint-hearted!
I am also bowing out of this thread as I love the supportive nature of Mumsnet but this isn’t about support. I wish you all the best of luck.

Sorry haven't read the rest of the thread, but just a few thoughts from me-

If your DD is going to have some kind of medical addition to her UCAS form, I'd let that speak for itself and not take up much (or indeed any) o her personal statement talking about that. The school reference can also talk about her ability to cope/catch up/personal qualities that have helped her overcome her illness. I'd use the PS to pack in as much as she can about all her other activities/experiences etc related to medicine.

DH and I have worked with medics from all over the place and we feel that it is impossible to tell where someone was trained from simply working alongside them, seeing how they deal with patients etc. Medical courses vary to some degree in their teaching methods but overall the syllabus is very tightly defined and the end product is remarkably similar for all the different universities. Oxbridge probably does have a slightly higher proportion of academically inclined people who carry on into research and academic jobs, but it makes very little difference where you train. Your DD should pick courses and cities that she likes and ignore everything else.

If DD fancies surgery as a career, is she doing anything to develop her hand-eye co-ordination e.g. playing a musical instrument, or a crafting hobby that requires a lot of intricate fine movements? I did a lot of those things and it probably contributed quite a bit to my manual dexterity.

SomersetS you don't need to read the thread in that case. It's certainly de-railed but MedSchoolRat was the poster who commented initially on parental over investment. Admittedly she then ducked out pretty fast.

Also, don't accuse a poster of boasting when a different poster mentioned the specific grades. I'm not ashamed of my DCs' grades but I didn't post them on this thread until another poster did so and made an odd comment about them which required challenge.

It's so weird to get so collectively uptight when a poster says parental money, skills and time don't need to be deployed to gain a place or places especially when the poster hasn't said the DC who are helped must be deficient in some way (there's no reason why a DC with a very invested parent should be a lower achiever after all). But it's weirder still when another poster scoots along, reveals that my own DS has very good grades and that prompts a sudden access of venom. It certainly suggests who's the competitive one/s! Anyhow it doesn't reflect brilliantly. I simply said good grades, I know now better than to say a specific number in the middle of a snake pit!

Also a general query about weirdness: what is the point of changing names on these threads but saying the same things twice? That's less than straightforward surely?

Or rather, I know now better.

Also, obviously, that last question was rhetorical.

Ok so third time lucky: now know.

goodbyestranger Also a general query about weirdness: what is the point of changing names on these threads but saying the same things twice? That's less than straightforward surely?

Was this supposed to be me? I had assumed your comment to me about name changes was in response to the London teaching hospital names (As far as I am aware the 20 or so London teaching hospitals making up the 5 schools have not changed name materially, but accept that most people can't be expected to know, hence nothing gained in spelling it out and adding to your angst). If however you're accusing me of name changing you'd better take it back... you're imagining things yet again and take a third .

goodbyestranger if you were making that accusation, kindly spell out which users are causing your paranoia on mumsnet user name changes, so that we can step up and put you right

I have never changed my name. Just saying.

at SomersetS

Haha, I think the comment might be about me as I have previously complained about posters being snarky and overly competitive on the higher education threads. I find it tiresome especially as there are so many helpful and knowledgeable posters about. The Oxford and Cambridge threads are even worse than the medicine. 😂

I also name change regularly. I don’t name change within threads as that would be sock puppeting and is against MN rules.

ITTW surely we can't all be expected to line up for inspection, without some form of guidance...?

Perhaps guidance will come after tea is done!

I’ve used the higher education threads on Mumsnet for many years and I’ve generally found them to be really helpful and supportive but some of the threads get really argumentative and competitive. I think I know more about some Mumsnetters kids qualifications than I do my own kids.😂.

Some threads such as the current medicine applicants threads seem to work well and have a friendly and helpful feel to them where others just get snippy. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Lol and now I’ve accidentally posted under my latest nickname! I’m IThinkThatsWeird. ...... 🤦🏻‍♀️

maryso anyone name changing in a weasly way will know who they are. You underestimate me. Although I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about in respect of London teaching hospitals. Someone accused me of dissing the London schools but in fact it was another poster who's DC is doing VetMed who said St George's was in clearing a while ago. I just ignored the wrong aim, it's no big deal. Happy to take the flack etc for everyone else! I don't quite get the endless chucking of biscuits though, simply because I'm sticking to my guns and responding to cattiness and sometimes downright rudeness (which has got much worse since peteneras mentioned 12A and a few other A!).

Yes but Waxx/ Weird it's only ok if it's an echo chamber on the medical threads. One word of dissent and you're it, especially if someone else outs you as having a DC with a good haul of A*. That compounds the problem hugely. It's the same type of thing on 11+ threads and Oxbridge threads but I guess they're all wall to wall of the sort of mother that maryso (who hasn'r a clue) insists I am, or must be. I also know the profile of lots of DC on these threads, I'm sure we all do.

Right ok crappy typing.

👀

Don't know what that means Weird. Perhaps my phrasing was bad about DCs' profiles. You said you knew lots of their grades - lots of posters talk about their DCs a lot, so one gets familiar with all those DC. Perfectly straightforward. I shouldn't type while making pesto, clearly. Obviously one knows some in rl too, but that's not what I meant.