Medical School Pondering

[kaykay72]

Hi all,

I’ve been reading a bit of the epically long medical school application thread, you all seem so knowledgable about the unis and the process, that I wondered if you could give me some thoughts on our situation please?

D has wanted to be a surgeon for as long as I can remember, used to aspire to go to Cambridge but wavers in that now. Strong academic and sporting record. Developed an illness in the run up to her GCSEs, sat exams (pre diagnosis but on diagnosis was told illness had been present around 6 months before exams, came out with 6A, 3A, 2B. Ended up missing year 12 due to treatment and extended hospital admission, but has fought like a warrior and restarted year 12 with next cohort. School have already said that she’ll have a medical attachment to her UCAS form to explain gap and the opinion that she underperformed at gcse due to illness. First half of year 12 going well, medical situation all good. Has part time job, is currently predicted A, A*, A - and school don’t give predicted grade for further maths at this point. Is back at her sport, working her way back up (she was a national level competitor), completing a diploma in this which carries UCAS points (equivalent to a B grade A level) and has just passed a coaching qualification as she coaches a bit at her club. Trying to fit in some WE/voluntary work but difficult to access and fit in with study/work/training. Has booked (and self funded) an overseas medical work shadowing trip later in the year.

She’s starting to shortlist unis for 2019 - she’s looking for places that do dissection rather than prosection, would prefer a campus uni (has a non medic family member at Nottingham, where they also cater well for her sport) and does not like the idea of too high a proportion of PBL

I’ve got little idea of how the various scoring systems work or which unis might suit or consider her - or whether Cambridge is still a reasonable goal for her (although she’s not sure their course is what she’s looking for). Can anyone offer any advice or opinions?

Thank you 😊

But to say I don't understand the demands of the process because I left my DS to his own devices is another piece of incredible flawed logic! No point repeating what I said in my post above to Woodenhill but simply because you and a large number of other mothers on these threads choose to make the process uber demanding doesn't mean it has to be uber demanding.
I stand by my opinion that indeed you don't really get what the process is really like when you haven't included the UKCAT part into it. Your DS didn't find himself waiting to hear the temporary results in September to get an idea of where he stood and again for the final result, only a week before the deadline for application, still wondering whether he should apply to one school or the other based on their result, their position in comparison with others for that particular year and cut off from previous years.

Do you know the number of applicants who applied to Exeter with 10 As at GCSE, UKCAT result above 700, AAA predicted and confident to be invited for an interview, yet got rejected right away because they fail to do their research and know that Exeter didn't give an invitation to interview to anyone not predicted at least AAA*? What a stupid mistake to make, one that could so easily have been avoided by doing the intensive research we mum did to help our children?

I made the process uber demanding because I didn't have a star pupil like yours who'd achieved 12 A*s at GCSE and was unlikely to get over 18 at the BMAT unlike your clearly extremely clever son. If my daughter had been that brilliant, then maybe I too would have had the confidence to take a step back and let her decide the obvious 4 choices to go for.

As it is, part of me did enjoy doing that research with DD. It brought us together and unknowingly, it had the benefit to improved my research skills. It was actually noted by my new boss at our recent supervision session.

I totally disagree that the thread would put mums off. Anyone is free to go about supporting their children as they see fit. Exactly a year ago, I met with my mum and she asked me what I thought was DD's chances of an offer to study medicine and I told her honestly that I thought it was about 50/50. As it is, she's done as well as your son. Surely the end result is all that matters?

You'll be deceiving yourself to think medic parents and potential ones only read this one thread and not others on MN on Medicine. Currently there are at least two or three, possibly more, threads on Medicine that's been running for days if not months. Just go back a little bit to see for yourself if you'd mentioned anything about your DS's grades. In any case, you've now admitted the "error" of the A* EPQ grade. Just what are we supposed to believe what other "errors" there might be?

And I don't understand why Eton should be brought up for discussion here either? You are letting your imaginations run wild by saying I'm only happy to see OE's flourishing at med schools. As a rule of thumb, Medicine won't be the first subject on a large propotion of Etonian's list of preferred degree when apply to university. It would hardly make it into the first dozen. None of DS's cohort at College (except only DS) applied for Medicine even when one-third of the cohort had either one or both parents as high- flying medics e.g. top consultants and surgeons. All of the cohort are more than capable to apply.

I've absolutely nothing against any Oxbridge medics. One of DS's best friends (one year older) at prep school and Eton/College was flying out of sight at Oxbridge! Matter of fact, my own GP surgery has a new partner, Cambridge-London trained who's now my GP! Believe it or not he's a family friend and I've known him since he was a 5-year-old! Chatted with him for 25 mins - entitled only 10 - in surgery when I visited last week (apologies to others waiting, not my fault, he wanted to chat). In addition, my hospital consultant-specialist who is treating me for a minor issue in the last 18 months is Cambridge trained and we got on as if we had known each other for decades.

No, my problem is mainly when guys turn up here insisting Oxbridge is the brightest and most able and London is the dumping ground for Oxbridge rejects or something similar.

It would hardly make it into the first half dozen.

I went to Oxford. From a v rubbish Essex comp. And my DD took one look at the Oxbridge courses and say nah, no patient contact for years. No course produces better doctors, and no one cares where they've studied for the first 5 years. Doctors seem to carry on studying for the next 40 years of their career in a multitude of places.
Anyhow, have enjoyed the parents on here saying they've taken no part in the process but seemingly having an in-depth knowledge of it.
I hope my DD decides where she fancies soon but I'm v proud of her for getting this far through a very tortuous process. Well done to everyone's kids who succeed - a lot don't get an offer.
And now off for 🍺 got St Paddy's day

peteneras it's no 'error'. The HT at our school was only too happy to count an EPQ as an A on results day for the top achievers but if you're absolutely determined to do DS and his peers down then I'm completely happy to say five A and an EPQ at A*. Why does it matter to you so much to do a random DC down in any event? I certainly don't think London is a 'dumping ground' although it is true that a lot of DC who apply to Oxford or Cambridge and don't get an offer do choose London as a good second best. I don't believe I've ever done your own DS down - it would be weird to do so - so I can't think why you have such a problem with state educated DC that you don't know doing at least as well academically as your own DS. It's mesmerizingly bizarre. I can only assume it's some curious displacement thing but I don't think I want to delve too far. Give it a rest for everyone's sake, it's unhealthy.

peteneras and swing while you may be helping others to navigate the process, you do know you're wasting your energy in the case of those who have a proven record of knowing more about everyone else and everything, and is never at fault when s/he gets anything wrong.

I found it extremely amusing that of the London schools, only UCL and ICL were worthy of earlier mention, as if perhaps Guys or Georges or Barts (founded 1123) had somehow lost their way and were begging for students... let alone the many other wonderful hospitals who make up the 5 London consortia. That said, if we lived in say Glasgow... or anywhere else near a school, that would be perfectly good enough.

Happy St P' s Day mumsneedwine and well done to your DD!

mumsneedwine Oxford is a very nice place to be for six years and the City and the college stuff and the teaching is sufficient grounds for wanting a place. Good on your DD for wanting patient contact. I'm unconvinced that's a morally superior choice but I'm glad you're v proud of her. I'm sure we're all - you, me and certainly peteneras - v proud of our DC, with reason however I don't quite understand the mean mindedness in that manifesting itself in doing random DC down. Yes absolutely, cheers for St Patrick's Day.

maryso I know nothing about any London hospitals other than UCL and Imperial and KCL to an extnt, so no point my making observations when I've got no decent knowledge to add. I'm losing track with the name changing I have to say but I'm trying to keep up :)

mumsneedwine I should have said that I knew nothing before DS applied other than vaguely, through other DCs' friends who'd applied but I learned obviously, during DS's interviewing process etc and have become more interested since, with friends of subsequent DCs who I could help at the margins. Isn't it perfectly natural to learn as one goes? I probably wouldn't let it amuse you too much anyhow - funnier things out there I reckon.

Again goodbyestranger, you're imagining things - that I'm doing your state-schooled DS down. I have never met you nor your undoubtedly bri!liant DS so what do I gain from what you're accusing me of? By definition then, according to you, I'm also "doing down" your DS's good friend from the same school who went to Oxford with him? How ridiculous!

My DD went to a state school too, a super-selective north London grammar after rejecting an equally brilliant top grammar that sends loads to Oxbridge and elsewhere for Medicine. Her cousin was a Head Girl there, now a very successful GP having qualified from UCL more than 10 years ago but refused to apply to Oxbridge as she wanted to stay in London.

This is an adult forum for parents and we have no reasons or excuses to take our adult differences/quarre!s towards our kids!

Possibly one of the few times we've agreed peteneras. Your own DS is clearly very impressive academically and in career terms which is why your seemingly grinchy attitude to others doing well/ institutions your own DC haven't attended is so puzzling. Very welcome if that's finally softening. Anyhow, supper is finally ready :)

I was very grateful for the medical applicants threads on MN back in the day and the support and information received.

The only stress I have now is picking out a knockout graduation dress :) Oh and FYI placement pondering. DD got her first choice but scored higher than anticipated but as long as she is happy in the area chosed for 2 years then I'm sure it will all work out.

Sorry if I've derailed the thread.

Arrowminta the threads weren't so fevered back in our day, that's the issue. They've become far more stressed but it could be more competitive to get in than it was in 2012 - I don't know the stats. I'm not numbers can have altered sufficiently to account for the changed tone of the threads.

Can you change an F1 posting if you've been cautious in your choice and do better than expected? I assumed that was it and you were stuck with what you were allocated.

That should read I'm not sure numbers can have altered sufficiently.

I'm just using the same old dress but I like it. Pretty colour, pretty material, much used but it will do.

Not sure why Mumsnet threads about medicine get so snippy and so competitive. It’s tedious.

DD is a Cardiff medic and a keen tennis player but wouldn’t have time for the training regime of the uni tennis team. There’s no medics tennis club (yet) unfortunately

Hilarious that you think the thread was more stressed before the Punch and Judy /showing off session began. I am leaving you to it .As other’s have said you only need one offer , it doesn’t have to be Oxford or Cambridge, and there are other threads were people will offer advice with out disparaging comments on your child’s ability should you feel inclined to help them .The initial poster was talking about a child with an illness and specific sporting abilities and seeking advice.

Where not were ( couldn’t find my glasses )

They've become far more stressed but it could be more competitive to get in than it was in 2012
However impersonal forums are, they are fueled by individual people. You can't expect each year to have the exact same discussions with people saying exactly the same things. Maybe this year's thread has been intense, but maybe it has also resulted in more offers.This thread was for the people who chose to post on it, and most I believe found it informative and supportive. Maybe next year's thread will be more relaxed or maybe not as active.

Not sure why Mumsnet threads about medicine get so snippy and so competitive. It’s tedious
The irony is that the only time there's been some unpleasantness this year, it's been when parents of previous applicants, all successful of course, have posted. Some have been very supportive and helpful, but there are also a few who think it's ok to come after the storm is over, and probably forgotten the level of their own emotions at the time, to tell us that it's not worth getting so stressed about it, that it's really not that competitive because their kids managed to get many offers and therefore so can everyone.

DD has done much better than what I expected so yes of course, looking back, maybe I could have gone through it with less investment, but who knows what the outcome would have been if I had. We learn most from any challenge, so it's easy to look back and reflect on how things could have done differently.

Of course, let's remember that the battle is not over yet, for those with offers, who still need to get the grades, and for those with no offers, who might ace their A levels and still get in so still much to be learnt about the process.

It is madness to suggest that there is no difference between applying for medicine and other degrees. Speaking not only as a parent of a DS going through the process and a sixth form tutor - there is no harder pressure than medicine applications. Only yesterday my DS said well at least now it’s ‘just the 3 As at A level’ - I immediately said what do you mean ‘just’. He explained then that he meant he had now got through every hurdle - GCSEs, UKCAT, PS, Interview offers, Interviews (very stressful MMIs) and then the very long wait for offers. What other subject (with exception of maybe dentistry) goes through all of this? I have seen lovely bright DCs in my tutor group crumble under this pressure over the years.

So yes I may have over invested in my DS but only because I knew (or thought I did - much worse than I imagined) the long process ahead. My DS desperately wants to be a Doctor and I therefore see it as my job as his mum to support him in this in any way I can.

100% agree movingmountains. What other course is still interviewing at this late stage ? Because medicine is. Lots of offers still to come and as has been said before all you need is one. Hard to concentrate on exams when you're deciding where to chose as you've only just heard back from your interviews in December. And still waiting for others that won't be out for a few more weeks. And have a snow postponed interview tomorrow (& it's snowed again).

The main 2018 medicine thread is fine. People have been supportive for more than half a year on it.
50% of school leavers who applied will not get an offer. That is a lot of very disappointed children. Many of whom have put a lot of effort into it. Quite a lot of those rejected would have done better with more knowledge of how it works (but which would have displaced others obviously). The most motivated will reapply, and they have a higher chance of getting in.
I find it a process somewhat lacking in empathy and highly prone to being gamed. It is laughable to suggest there is equality of access for all children. And the more hurdles they invent, the worse it gets. For the avoidance of doubt we brought our money, our skills and our time to bear on making it happen for our child, and our child alone. It was not fair.

there is no harder pressure than medicine applications

Applying for medicine isn't for the faint hearted but it would be wrong to assume that the children that do so are under more pressure than other children applying for other types of courses. Medicine applicants are generally mature high achievers who usually have supportive families and schools. Even if they ultimately failed to get into medical school chances are they would still be able to do something worthwhile.

Yes but money, skills and time may not have made a jot of difference Herodshelper. You've no way of knowing.

Art and drama courses are still interviewing mumsneedwine .

I don't think I've got anything to be especially competitive about to be honest. I'm a long way down the line with my DC and I think they'v done ok precisely because I'm notably hands off, not in spite of it. Others who don't have money, skills or time may prefer to hear that those things are not required to succeed.

That's a point I made many posts back Herodshelper - that an absolutely equal amount is at stake for other DC applying for other courses - but apparently it's not so. Medical applicants are much more special than other DC. It wasn't fully explained why but apparently it's so.