Open days - what attracts you? What puts you off?

[shovetheholly]

I'm interested in hearing about your experiences of open days!

What attracts you and your DS/DD to a course or a place? What puts you off? What kind of information is it good to receive about the course? How much does the city/town of the university matter? How significant are job prospects later on to your decision? Do open days always confirm what you already think, or has one changed your mind (either positively or negatively)?

Am asking because we rarely get honest feedback from parents on the day (for obvious reasons), and I'd love to hear what you REALLY think... and get a sense of what we can do better.

Thanks, catslife. Allow me to reassure you that my and my institution's spelling is perfect, when not being written on a phone while on a treadmill. And that my department has an active programme of outreach activities and master- classes running in schools in the city and county, including public schools and traditionally low-participation schools. What we are looking at is how to expand this further to target non-traditional applicants.

Pretty poor form to comment on other posters' spelling / grammar on MN unless it's totally unintelligible.

Lots of people are posting on phones / with poor internet connections / while breast feeding / cooking dinner /have dyslexia / English as a second language . Though on a treadmill is a new one on me

Lots of people are posting on phones / with poor internet connections / while breast feeding / cooking dinner /have dyslexia / English as a second language . Though on a treadmill is a new one on me

...and don't forget those of us who are just a bit thick and crap at English. 😂

My kids went to theirs alone or with friends or the school. They had narrowed them down a lot before going. It was mainly course content they were interested in and the way the course is structured. My son is doing engineering so the tour round the engineering department was very important. He was lucky and got to go on all engineering dept tours but they did get booked early and I think if depts are going to have open days they should be able to ensure all applicants (not their hangers on) get to see round the departments.
He was put off one uni by the dept tours being done by a couple of PhD students speaking English as a second language who he struggled to understand. He has dyslexia so didn't want to to struggle with verbal course content as well as written content although they probably wouldn't have been lecturing.
They both wanted to imagine themselves living in the cities of the universities and were interested in the various societies.

I'm sure roughbeast knows she's not writing official publicity on Mumsnet. To be honest, if I were typing on a treadmill it would be WAY worse than the coherent sentences she produced!

(And, seriously, some of the most brilliant people I know can't spell. The perception that it's somehow a measure of intelligence leaves me a little bit baffled. A bit like the idea that having general knowledge facts at your fingertips is a mark of cleverness. But I digress...)

The thing about international students is that they basically cross-subsidize UK places. They pay higher tuition fees, and that helps to keep fees a bit lower for UK students. So parents of kids who are about to go should really worry about numbers dropping off. I think just about every Russell Group uni does a lot of 'civic' work both to help the community around them and to encourage children from local communities to attend - unfortunately, the perception of huge debt is a very real barrier for those from poorer backgrounds. Personally, I think we could do more on this score, though our hands are often tied by government and university policy and funding regimes.

This is a very interesting thread, but also a frustrating one.

Various responses are contradictory. For example, some of you have said hearing about course structure is boring. Others have said you want specific information. I used to give an Open Day talk which had a section on the very specific modular structure of our degree, with columns of core modules, options, how Joint Hons was organised etc etc. would explain examples of curricula for optional & core modules, to give an idea about what "Hamster Weaving for Community Practice" at Level 3 involved.

I would still get questions afterwards, still get questions at interview, and still get students in the First Year coming to me to say, "Oh I didn't know we had to do that."

And prospective students put off by non-native English speakers - you really need to get used to it. My colleagues are an international bunch, as are most university departments. And as shove says, international student fees allow universities to keep fees down for domestic students; they subsidise your children's fees. They're very much allowed to be here, and teach our undergraduates - most of my Graduate Teaching Assistants have "accents" and they are fabulous teachers.

Shove, there is an associated point here. Different students want different things. International students, are not all rich, and will often be here on "family scholarships" meaning they come here, study hard, then go home, get a good job and help fund the next family member. They are very motivated, and will not be impressed by Student Union reps talking about great freshers weeks and so on.

I suspect more British students now take a similar view of tertiary education. Partly because of Britain increasing cultural diversity (and Borojo - it is not just Asians. Americans and Eastern Europeans, even the French, can take a very different approach.) But also because of fees and a very uncertain job market. Plus some would always have found the library more interesting than the Friday night disco.

I suspect it is important for these groups to be reassured that University is primarily about studying. And that you will not be considered weird, but instead there is an active intellectual community that you can be part of, either accessed through your course or through Societies.

We know of one East Asian girl who dropped out of Birmingham because she could not cope with the squalor in her allocated student flat, and British students who find this, and the fact that flatmates regularly come in in the not so early hours of the morning making lots of noise, very difficult. I suspect that this is one reason why London Universities are disproportionately popular with both International students, and with ethnic minority British students. (I don't have evidence for the latter, but am sure I am right.) The academics are there, and costs can be kept under control by sharing rooms, cooking in groups etc, and you can avoid the Great British University Experience. KCL or Newcastle - a no brainer for many prospective students. The problem for Newcastle might be that they pick up the students whose fees are capped.

needmore - I hear you, it all sounds like an argument for a "quiet hall" to be honest. We are very aware of the changes in the student demographic!

At risk of a derail, I think something odd is happening to the student body. Many, many students of all nationalities aren't interested in drink, drugs, or parties. They come with an incredible work ethic and sometimes also with a great deal of anxiety. But here's the really strange thing - in spite of this elevated level of commitment and extra hours of work, I haven't noticed ANY improvement in the standard of the work they do. Compared both to partying students in their peer groups and to older groups of students I've taught years and years ago who had a more relaxed attitude, they aren't producing any better work. In fact, if anything, while I get fewer off-the-wall mad essays, I also get fewer truly brilliant ones.

While everyone, of course, has the right to choose how they live their life and spend their teens and 20s - and while there is no obligation to party at all - I think it's also perhaps a mistake to think that an increased work ethic/anxiety about performance leads to increased actual performance. In my experience, that's not the case. The only thing I see going up is the number of students with MH issues. On the whole, they seem more, not less miserable, which I hate to see .

Oops, I managed to delete an entire sentence from that first paragraph! It was supposed to say "We are very aware of the changes in the student demographic! And you're quite right about a new need to be culturally sensitive to different expectations of university life".

in spite of this elevated level of commitment and extra hours of work, I haven't noticed ANY improvement in the standard of the work they do.

Indeed.

Anxiety to please, to follow the "rules" - as if following the rules will get you a good mark. The instrumentalising and marketisation of HE (all things we see in this forum). The lower level of knowledge they arrive with - or rather, the way they've been taught in bite-size pieces, so they don't have the intellectual reach & range to synthesise, to put together bigger ideas.

Shove, it is interesting that you mention a "quiet hall". I went with my DD to several Open Days in the States, and one of the students mentioned that he had chosen to be in a "sub free" dorm. This is apparently where everyone living in it has agreed not to drink alcohol, take drugs or smoke. He said it was frequently chosen by the elite sportsmen. I thought it was an interesting concept, and not one I have heard of in the UK.

Virgil - I sometimes wonder if anxiety itself isn't inhibiting. Some of them are clearly scared to bejeesus about conserving marks, and as a result taking a risk and being original is too dangerous. Better to regurgitate the points that have been made in the lecture (and throw in a few cites to the lecturer's work to garner favour!) The crying shame is that I don't think they are less able than any previous students. They're just terrified to within an inch of their lives.... of life itself. The idea of playing, experimenting, trying something out is where we do a lot of learning - without it, university is impoverished for them both intellectually and at the level of other pleasures.

(To be fair, there's plenty of rote writing in academia too!)

leeds - I suspect there might be quite a bit of demand for that here! Though there would need to be some flexibility, as I like to think some students would change their opinions and way of life over the course of the three years (in both directions).

I sometimes wonder if anxiety itself isn't inhibiting

Absolutely. Agree with all you say - my students are bright, energetic, entrepreneurial, and absolutely terrified of failure. It inhibits them flying, sadly.

I had a sobbing student in my office for an hour the other day. Every time I mentioned a particular aspect of her work, the uncontrollable sobs shook her body. I read her marks out to her (mid 2, i range, so clearly very good). She told me she was clearly not coping and needed to work harder. I wanted to hug her and shake her simultaneously. Worse thing is, she's started to try to blame those around her in her classes - other students, staff - for "bullying" her. I know the bullying is not happening, but she is so anxious, she's projecting something very serious.

She's a conscientious ambitious student & unless she gets a hod of her anxiety, it will derail all the other really good things she's achieving.

And I'm derailing this thread - apologies but there's nowhere at my institution for staff to offload after such an experience so you get it here!

I shall carrying on the derailing! I think you (as in you-the-system) have some part to play in this. I have read this board for many years and the persistent message has been that, for lots of subjects, the Personal Statement is not read. If it is read, then you only want to hear about subject-related matters and you are not interested in Grade 8 chello. You only care about (entrance) grades, not the hinterland stuff.
You've got what you asked for.

Virgilstaff I think if non native speakers are chosen to show students round and to lecture students then the department should ensure their English is clear. This shouldn't be an optional extra. I'm talking about Scottish unis here so I'm not after BBC English just easily intelligible English.

Oh Virgil - derail away! It's good to talk about these things. I find myself becoming very distressed on my students' behalf. I genuinely care about their happiness and I find it deeply upsetting to sit with a wonderful, beautiful, bright young person who has everything ahead of them in life, and to see them so.... defeated before they begin. There is something utterly life-sapping about it in some cases, not just anxiety but a sort of self-mortification and self-punishment and self-loathing that ought to have no place in a young person's soul!

In many cases, the pattern of anxiety is so ingrained, the result of so many years of discipline and training, that I think it will require a lot of help and a lot of time for these young people to walk free of its shadow.

I agree with you that it sometimes rears its head in ways that are very ugly and harmful for others as well. DH used to do a module that had some group work, and students would turn on their fellow group members in racist ways sometimes, if they felt grades were threatened.

senua - personally, I believe that we should be able to tailor offers to personal circumstances far more. The playing field is NOT level and I think it would be just to reflect that in offers. Unfortunately, the funding regime often ties our hands on this.

I agree with the comment about recording the sessions. For time, logistic and budget reasons we had to really narrow down the open days we went to, there are probably universities and courses out there that would have been a good option for DS but we had to prioritise. more subject specific online talks would have probably opened up more choices.

I like the idea of more of a virtual open day - I think this would be really useful.

"sub free" dorms sound wonderful. DD will be taking a heavily loaded course, with lots of early lectures, and is very dyslexic so needs quiet in order to concentrate. She spends her downtime playing sport at quite a high level.

The quiet hall options where she is going, all seem to be single sex, so perhaps appealing to specific demographics including Muslims and some overseas students , but not really what she wants. She just wants to be with people like her who work hard, play hard, but don't party hard.

So her questions at an open day would have been around her specific needs. Ideally somewhere where lectures are recorded or hand outs given as a routine (her note taking is not good), and somewhere where there is opportunity for quiet study, and undisturbed sleep.

I assume others will have different needs and different questions. Recent posts suggest that quite a lot of kids may be concerned about the step up from school to University, and will want to know how they are supported and guided. Academic support during a transition from marks schemes to independent thinking, and realistic expectations, seems as important as welfare support.

Anxiety is not just a University problem. I suspect we are not alone in knowing several kids who have not made it to University because of anxiety issues. (And no obvious rhyme or reason, ie selective, non-selective schools, state or private, London or outside.) DC also know several kids who were doing regular 2am stints in the library in their first time. A common factor, if any, might be overachieving at A level by working very very hard, so having to carry on doing the same.

And to derail further, DS suggests that a surprising number of people he knows, all able and not obviously anxious, taking a variety of degrees in a variety of places, are not enjoying University/their course. He does not know why. He is lucky in that he has always really enjoyed his subject and is on the perfect course. Something is wrong somewhere, but hard to pin point what.

I have just done the rounds of open days with DS1.

By far the biggest frustration for us is the lack of honesty from universities about what grades they will actually accept. EG his first choice says its standard offer is AAA, but on questioning they admitted that if you got AAB last year you were in and if you got ABB, you would probably still get in. His second choice offer is AAB, but we were told one to one that BBB would most likely see him offered a place.

Universities are desperate to show they are all Premier league, so no one will admit that they take lower grades than the competition. In many cases this means that students now have first choice and back up offers all of the same grades, even though we all know that this bears no relation to the grade profile of students they actually admit.

A bit of honesty here would make it much easier for students to target the right universities for their level of ability.

And whilst we are on the subject of personal statements. DP, who is an academic says it is grades, not personal statements that matter when deciding which students get offers. He thinks the current system has become a nonsense with universities lying to students about the grades they will accept and schools lying to universities about the grades students are likely to get. He would like to see a Jan 1st start to the university year with everyone finalising their application after they get their grades. That way both applicants and universities would know if they meet the entrance requirements before they apply.

I think we need a bit of a shake up of the current system tbh. trawling around several unis not really knowing if the grades were what they took or how much flexibility they had. not really wanting to completely commit to one in case the said grades were not achieved.

I would like to see grades first in Early August and Uni years to start in January so run by calendar year. the students can spend the 4 months between starting Uni and getting their grades travelling, working etc. then uni years can still have the same sort of terms and holidays but split up in a different way.

it was so frustrating picking somewhere to look around without really knowing what grades you had. its like going shopping with no idea of how much you have in your purse.

I didn't know quiet halls existed! How do you find out in advance whether a uni has them?

I would have loved that as a student. I'm a quiet, non party type.