Open days - what attracts you? What puts you off?

[shovetheholly]

I'm interested in hearing about your experiences of open days!

What attracts you and your DS/DD to a course or a place? What puts you off? What kind of information is it good to receive about the course? How much does the city/town of the university matter? How significant are job prospects later on to your decision? Do open days always confirm what you already think, or has one changed your mind (either positively or negatively)?

Am asking because we rarely get honest feedback from parents on the day (for obvious reasons), and I'd love to hear what you REALLY think... and get a sense of what we can do better.

Canapés!!! Where are you??? Obviously not Exeter!!!

Universities do have to look at why their numbers are down. It cannot just be changed by an open day if the overall experience of that university is not what people want. Why might that be?

If there are obviously people hanging around and you have no staff/students available to scoop them up and talk to them, you have missed the opportunity. They may not come back. Pay your students more to come back in and help to boost helper numbers. Informed students are a brilliant advert for your university. It is a horrible waste of time to travel a long way and have to hover!!!

shove, agreed on the Top Brass and their peculiar ideas. We're also starting to investigate given the demongraphic dip ways of attracting more non-traditional entrants, mature students, as well as overseas etc.

bojo - the suspicion is that it's the contemporary political context that might be doing some damage. Behind the falling applications figures, which are being reported almost everywhere, even Oxbridge, is a big drop in applications from EU countries, and a smaller drop in international student numbers. Numbers applying from the UK are down a bit too. That means a decline in income which has significant implications for the funding of courses for home students, of course. Everyone is hoping it's a blip, not a trend.

rough - yes, I think more flexibility (genuine flexibility, not just flexibility on paper) might have to be built in to courses. There are significant delivery challenges there!

helen - We do have offer holder days, but I think we should perhaps emphasize these a bit more!

I suspect the subject makes a huge difference together with whether the course is recruiting or selecting.
DC did some subject taster days which were not part of the open day. On one open day the lecturer who had delivered the taster day was there and DS was able to chat with him about his interest in the subject.
One uni (Nottingham I think?) did some taster lectures. They were poorly attended, no danger of parents taking up spaces. Very dumbed down and dull and a waste of valuable time on the day.
Remember many visitors have travelled a long way and need to fit a lot into a day.

Enthusiastic students in luminous T shirts can be a double edged sword. DS was completely put off by the student guides in one place. Others were keen to talk about the nightlife to a shy 17 year old who wasn't interested.
My DC went to about 6 or 7 open days each plus some tours/ taster days. I think this might be more than average but some were just because there was a coach from school. I went along on about half and sat in coffee shops wandered around.
I did go to the offer days. These are much more important IMO and more focussed. This was where I went to some talks aimed at parents, and yes there were some cringe making parental questions.
Financial talks seem a bit pointless, all done to death by schools and colleges. Those parents who are clueless are probably not going to be there.

I'm reading with interest as dd has booked to go on a couple by herself. I'm impressed with her independence, but I'm worried about reports of parents dominating open days as she's a reserved soul who would get elbowed out by confident adults.

I think making the subject talks and milling around with lecturers after, a student ticket only affair would be a good way to allow students to have some space. It's really down to the students what they want out of their courses, I've not got the foggiest what would make a good course for my dd.

Is it worth working backwards, looking why students might drop out, and make sure you have this covered. For example courses labelled "economics" can vary a lot between vocational type courses, with work experience and accountancy options, to others with lots and lots of dry financial maths. (Which DS loves, but some of his friends hate.) It not just enough to be good at it. You need to like maths as well. Other courses will have plenty of history and other humanities options.

Cambridge economics had two lecture rooms side by side, with parents funnelled into one and prospective students into another. Both talks finished at the same time so no one could object.

I suspect the increase in fees has change the landscape. Parents are more likely to see a degree as an investment decisions, and certainly a minority of DCs friends have been under pressure to select quasi-vocational courses: economics; accountancy; architecture; engineering; law; and medicine. (DD asked a girl at her first Open Day why she was wanting to study medicine, which the girl saw as a weird question. She would study medicine, like her three older sisters, because that is what her father had decided. Ditto an international student friend of DS' really struggled to pull off a 2.1 having to do lots of maths when she preferred writing essays and had wanted to study liberal arts - though concedes her father was right and her degree has been the passport to a good job.) Parents may be interested in things like University status and career prospects. Trouble is that they don't take the degree and if a student is not interested, it can be a hard three/five year slog. Therefore useful if there is space for students to air issues that may be worrying them.

I agree with a session for SEN. What would have suited dyslexic DD would be a session with students with dyslexia or autism speaking about how the University had helped them cope and why that particular campus/city environment worked, and what they needed to consider, say accommodation preferences.

DS' University has a high percentage of international and European students so they had parent sessions and a tour on the welcome day when students were being dropped off. It was interesting, as they covered things like the careers service, the health facilities (American parents could not be convinced that the NHS could be trusted in any way shape or form, and the University explained the system and gave details of private insurance), and payment. The big message was not to give the fee money to students but to pay the University directly, and different ways of payment - taking on board exchange restrictions in some countries. Even how to pay fees in cash.

The event was also, and inevitably, used to ask for studentship donations. You can specify the what nationality students you want to support.

needmoresleep - yes, I agree with you about the change in the landscape after fees, and the tensions it creates! I feel sorry for students who are clearly on courses they've been told to do, rather than those that they enjoy. I totally understand the parental anxiety that has placed them there, but I am not sure it's always the wisest course long term.

V much hear you on the SEN. That is definitely something we should speak about, because we put loads of effort into students who having a bit more of a battle, for whatever reason. Kindness and support really matter.

ohyoubad - Good on your DD! I'd like to think someone would spot that she's unaccompanied and have a chat. It can be difficult to know when a student is there on their own, and when they are with family because in groups you're not always sure which children belong to which parents! This is something we could perhaps do more on.

wand - I think most Russell Group places, perhaps with the exception of Oxbridge, are somewhere on a continuum between recruiting and selecting! I hear you on the financial talks, and also on the offer days- that seems to be a theme of this thread, and it's useful to hear.

I've recently been doing Open Days with my DD.

1. General ambience is really impt but not something you can alter I think. Exeter was lovely, warm, cosy, small - and we had a super student guide. Warwick was cold and concrete with a guide who made us trudge round every accommodation block (until we ran away).

1. Lecturers / talks. Warwick profs were brilliant. about 8 or 9 present, all stood up, all introduced themselves, sounded genuine and enthusiastic, gave a 5 minute talk on an ancient coin, which was fascinating. Exeter wouldn't let parents in so can't say, but DD said one tutor just waffled on and on about the # of credits they needed in each year. Bored to death.

Newcastle took us to the museum and were also brilliant in terms of enthusiasm and letting students see where they would spend their time.

DD unfortunately put off by drunken yobs, hens and stags and police in hotel reception, plus 20 minute wait to register, when we arrived the night before...

Southampton looked and felt like an unused 6th form college. Not one single student poster up anywhere. Totally souless place (we weren't at the main campus). Only 1 lecturer in attendance. We left after a couple of hours.

1. Accommodation - Warwick looked good. Newcastle great. Exeter v v expensive and the cheapest hall felt like a prison block - very claustrophobic and actually quite intimidating as you couldn't pass anyone in the corridors without having to turn sideways...

I did say "informed" student helpers! They need training.

Ha! So Exeter have changed then! No parents! My DD discovered cosy, warm and small was the last thing she wanted. Many girls from my DD's boarding schools loved Exeter for those reasons, however. It was like school. However, my DD quickly learned she didn't want somewhere like school. Looking at Exeter and Newcastle are chalk and cheese! (My sister lives in Newcastle). It shows that just selecting on course content alone, is not the way forward for many students because other factors come into play. Clearly an open day cannot help with drunks in the hotel.
Newcastle really is party central. I am surprised you did not know that, Twitter. Think Gazza etc. However, many students love that about the city. It is also quite a cheap place to live. If your DD would be totally put off, it is a waste of time going there as she discovered with cosy Exeter!

DD rarely looked at Halls. They are all much of a muchness really. You can have a better look on an offer day. DD was only considering a couple of universities seriously so did not want to waste time trudging round hall after hall. She just didn't care that much but a video would be helpful.I think planning the day is important and if certain elements are too time consuming, do not do them. Universities put all the info re talks on the web site, so plan around the important bits. I am not sure anyone should choose a university based on narrow corridor or a shared bathroom!

DD was far more interested in the Department and the possible options, but she did not go into it forensically because these can change. She seemed to know what her top choices were, so as long as the visit was not a disaster, she would fit in perfectly well. However, she is super confident and a few hens in Newcastle wouldn't put her off. It is hardly a judgement on the quality of the university!

I think that Brexit has changed the European scene. Worldwide students who can go anywhere may now feel we are not welcoming here. I think overseas students already here for school will still look here, but others have a big wide world to choose from including the USA, Canada, and Australia. America may not be so appealing now either!

I think the fees have not put anyone off in recent years. The stats have said otherwise, but I do think the EU is a bigger problem. However, some Departments such as MFL are struggling to get suitable candidates from anywhere. It could be that the university sector is too big now and the lesser universitis will suffer (not that I am sugesting yours is lesser OP). There is also a pecking order. Those nearer the bottom of the tables with empty spaces trying to recruit lots of mature students will not necessarily be attractive to younger students. I think the drop out rates also tell a story. If a university recruits like mad, and ends up with more unsuitable students with low grades, does this get reflected in drop-out rates?

Doing what parents dictate is a very big issue for Asian students. It is cultural and will not be changed easily. My DDs were both at school with girls who had a lot of pressure to do STEM degrees (medicine, dentist, pharmacy, maths, etc, or economics! Even my local Sri Lankan garage owner could not imagine why my DD wanted to do French and Italian! "What job will she get?" - he wondered. She is now a Barrister and he is happy!

Bojo I was a student in Newcastle for 4 years...

I do indeed know that it is a) party central and b) the most fantastic place to be a student.

I would have loved DD to have chosen Newcastle . I did my best.

It is some consolation that she is likely to end up in Durham.

I get irritated when one parent hogs a lecture by asking question after question, and not giving the potential students chance to raise their points. Same parent often spends inordinate amount of time with staff afterwards, with no-one else getting a look in.

Leeds2 as an academic, this annoys me as well (as does being mansplained by said parents!) but what should academic staff do? we can't very well not talk to parents ... You can be irritated at the other parent, but not the institution, I should have thought?

My pet peeve is talks crammed full of parents/other hangers on with no space for applicants. Perhaps the presumption should be that parents don't attend a talk unless and until it is known that there is enough space for prospective students?

You know, when I've been involved (as an academic) in asking parents to stand back while we fit the applicants in the lecture theatre first, I have received some almost offensively rude comments, from very naicely spoken parents.

Just saying.

Often we do what we do because of parents' demands. It's tricky, isn't it? Most posts here don't like overcrowding, but speak of overcrowding as if it's all the other attendees.

How do you think we should solve this? Ask parents to stay home? only admit those who've booked? Anything we do risks irritating someone.

It is some consolation that she is likely to end up in Durham.

Well, Newcastle used to be King's College, Durham (my father's alma mater).

Virgil -I now say "If I can please ask you to restrict yourselves to one question each so everyone gets a chance to ask - we have students and staff available later in the day for any extra questions". It doesn't always stop the grandstanding, but it does mean someone has to be deliberately rude/selfish to override it and then they look BAD. And YES to the mansplaining. I have to stuff my face with cake sometimes to compensate. I work in an area that is sometimes considered pretentious/difficult (it's not really) and it seems to really threaten a particular kind of bloke.

The overcrowding thing is really difficult, not least because many universities don't let departments organise their own thing and insist on open days being centrally organised to coordinate with things like accommodation tours, library tours etc (there are sensible reasons for this). Since this is often in term time, it can put a great deal of pressure on teaching space, which makes it hard to find spaces that are large enough - a few additional and unexpected families showing up can really cause things to be cramped, but again there are often individual circumstances for those families that made a last minute decision unavoidable. We try to do our best but sometimes it is just totally unpredictable. I can hear how frustrated some of you feel by this, though, so I will have a think...

Pros -
Advance online booking system
Shuttle bus from station (free is an advantage)
Good signposting / maps
Short inspiring lecture with something visual (eg laser show at Southampton / Physics)
Separating parents from students
Good students acting as guides
Flexible pick and mix day

Cons -
Crowds of people (hard to get rid of crowds other than by having more Open Days but some universities manage them much better than others eg fast entry system, dividing people into small groups)
Cafes running out of food
Long tedious dry example lectures
Rooms too small for the amount of people invited
Loud music blasting out of speakers

Hi holly < waves >

I've just done some open days with DC but for a totally different subject that yours and your DH.

General things

1. Most departments /schools had tours taken by final year or post grad students. Please think VERY carefully about who does this and give them a script and some training . My DC was seriously put off by a brash and rather stupid undergrad , who told them that they didn't need to work hard for exams, as it was good enough to just pass ( for one of the most competitive and demanding undergrad courses ) .

One prospective student asked him why he was studying that course and why that uni , and he rubbed his fingers togther and said " the money " . Full stop. So arrogant.

While as adults we can see that it's just one idiot, kids find that attitude very off putting.

1. If your uni is in a big city ( like yours ) , you don't need to waste so much time banging on about the great social life and how you can get wasted every night in the student union. Most prospective students can work out that having fun is part of uni life. And the huge emphasis on this at some open days is off putting for students who are not into parties / clubbing etc and want to hear more about sport /music/ whatever

1. Explain a lot more about the course and what and how they will study, especially in first year. Not just a list of options tell them what that actually means . Even in a subject where they have done it at A level, it's won't be the same. Even More important in your department.

One talk actually showed a detailed timetable for first years with all the locations on ( like that mattered ) . But failed to say what Design 1.1 and Electrical 2.0 might actually involve.

1. Talk about things that the kids actually care about . We had a one hour lecture from a HOD who spent all his time taking about accreditation and the awards his dept had received . I think it's fairly safe to assume that one of the top courses in the country is good, don't waste time proving this. If you are that insecure , put the info on the website.

1. Another talk consisted solely of ( yet another ) HOD talking about prestigious former students who were now CEO at some multi national. Which is hard for your average 6th former to relate to. Another problem with this talk is that every single former student and member of staff talking and every student in the photos during his powerpoint was male. There was a female postgrad on the display outside - I guess they needed someone to make the tea

1. If you can , do tours of labs and projects and display models and other interesting things. Visual stuff is good.

Don't expect anyone to read posters from conferences or lists of department publications.

Don't give out leaflets, they just get binned. Put it online. If they can't use the internet , you don't want them on your course.

Yes, shove when I do Open Day talks as HoD or as the senior professor (see we're wheeling her out to show she's a functional non-weird human being!) I start by welcoming everyone, but then say I'm going to speak directly to the potential applicants, rather than the parents. And if I get a lecturer-hogger, I do a LOT of smiling and nodding, and try to bring the other people hovering about into the conversation, so my parent lecturer-hogger never gets the sense that this is a private conversation. And I do tend to answer questions as if they were asked by the potential student, even if a parent asks them.

I do think parents need to learn to step back, but from reading on here, I suspect I'm fighting a losing battle. It's a pity, as students seem less and less prepared for the rigours of university.

I don't think I'd fully considered the damage a few silly undergraduates can do! These days students are so determined to work hard and do well on their courses, I can see exactly why it goes down badly! DH uses postgrads (4 year course) so they're a bit older for this reason - we need to do so as well I think!

It's actually reassuring to hear that you already know which courses are really good. Sometimes we don't really know if that information is actually fully 'out there'. (Obviously there are all kinds of drawbacks with going on league tables alone, but you know what I mean).

I am at an all-male panel at an open day! What were they thinking!?!

That's a good idea about addressing replies from parents to the student Virgil. I'm going to try that next time!

On the subject of the helicoptering... I understand why parents want to know about where their kids are going, and what they will be doing. And I totally get why the fees have heightened this - it's a lot of money. I think it's sometimes about the way it's done. I'm only seeing a snapshot, but sometimes you can tell that a parent really ISN'T listening to the student, or creating space for them to have their say, and is piling pressure on that is quite suffocatingly palpable in some cases. I think this creates a lot of anxiety, and I'm sure it's linked in some cases to MH issues. Other times, the concern is more along the lines of 'I want you to be happy, are you sure this is the right thing for you?' which feels far more loving.

To give an idea, I had one case where a parent said "I don't actually know what we're doing here, Alice is as thick as two short planks and she doesn't stand a hope of meeting your entrance grades". To which the girl, white and wan and visibly shaking, just cringed into herself and teared up. I spent ages trying to tell her that LOADS of students only find their feet when they get to university, and only discover after school that they're really, really good at something. I felt terrible for her. It was just awful.

It may also be worth looking at demand for Open Days. The Open Day at one of DD's clear favourites filled up before she had a chance to apply. Irrational but it felt like a rejection before she had started.

Offer days can be a problem if any of your departments have a habit of making late offers. Both DC were still waiting to hear from three choices each at mid-March. Too late for offer days (if they had got offers for them all and were need to make decisions.)

Do many British Universities record the sessions from Open Days?

We found this video really useful:

webcolleges.uva.nl/Mediasite/Play/1f77cb44ac3446968ee10be61e244d5c1d

It would be really helpful to watch some open day sessions before committing to driving 300 miles each way.

We're also starting to investigate -- given the demongraphic dip ways of attracting more non-traditional entrants, mature students, as well as overseas etc.
OK I know MN doesn't have a spell checker, but things like spelling mistakes on official publicity really does put me off (and has done since we were looking at primary schools).
Rather than looking overseas why not consider areas in the UK (or perhaps even within your own city) that are low participation areas and actually work more with local schools and colleges.
Make sure the students helping out represent the sort of students you would like to attract whether it's private/public schools, ethnic diversity and a good male/female ratio.
We still aren't sure about going to any Open Days yet, I think Y12 dd has booked into a more general event that compares different unis and courses in a neutral venue and will take it from there.

Having said that about spelling, demongraphic for demographic is quite funny though!
What I would like to know is what effect this demographic dip is going to have for potential students - lower offers? some courses not able to run due to low numbers etc.?