Open days - what attracts you? What puts you off?

[shovetheholly]

I'm interested in hearing about your experiences of open days!

What attracts you and your DS/DD to a course or a place? What puts you off? What kind of information is it good to receive about the course? How much does the city/town of the university matter? How significant are job prospects later on to your decision? Do open days always confirm what you already think, or has one changed your mind (either positively or negatively)?

Am asking because we rarely get honest feedback from parents on the day (for obvious reasons), and I'd love to hear what you REALLY think... and get a sense of what we can do better.

Strong vocational degrees would be great. I hope that most are. I do raise an eyebrow at the number of Criminology degrees. I'm sure we're all very interested in crime, but... there is no need for this degree. There should be Law on the one hand on the other a scientific route to forensic work, but Criminology? What are you studying? Are students informed that they are highly unlikely to become a lawyer/CSI practitioner with this degree?

I know this line of thinking leads to what's the point of Arts degrees full stop, but there is a difference between an academic degree and "hobby" ones.

Addressing the point of foreign students being good/bad, it depends on the foreign students! High-calibre people with different perspectives = excellent. Bums on seats paying £££ = bad.

Dn complained that there were a lot of Chinese students on her course (top RG, very sought-after course) whose English skills were very poor indeed. She said she had no idea how they were managing to keep on with the course and it could only be £££. Outside of Oxbridge places most places don't interview so on paper someone could look perfectly fine, and then once they are there it creates a bad impression if an institution is routinely throwing substandard overseas students out. They need to sustain the flow of high-paying students!

Dn complained that there were a lot of Chinese students on her course (top RG, very sought-after course) whose English skills were very poor indeed.

But did she actually see their written work? It's not uncommon for students with less confident spoken English to write English well, often putting British students to shame.

In all the places where I examine, the Chinese students aren't doing worse than the British. The opposite actually - the students at the bottom failing through lack of work are very rarely the international ones. (And marking of exams is blind, so there is no way that international students are being marked to a different standard than home students.)

BTW in student surveys British students consistently state that non-native English speaker lecturers are less knowledgable about their subjects than native English speaker lecturers. These comments are sometimes made about lecturers who are acknowledged world leaders of their respective fields.

I would wonder whether British students similarly assume imperfect spoken English means doing less well at the course.

Dn complained that there were a lot of Chinese students on her course (top RG, very sought-after course) whose English skills were very poor indeed.

I taught a Masters module last year with at least half non-English speakers from east Asia (mostly Chinese speakers). They had difficulties in the flow and cut & thrust of discussions in seminars, but their oral presentations on their research projects were excellent - really top class. When you're learning fluency in a language, there's this thing called 'passive comprehension' where your understanding outstrips your ability to communicate complex ideas. But the understanding is there.

Your DN may not have understood the different strategies for learning and speaking that a non-native speaker needs to adopt. And is probably not in a position to evaluate her peers.

Those are fair points (and a charge that could be levelled at me because I hate speaking in front of people and if I do I sound like Larry the Lamb) but she particularly complained about having to do a piece of collaborative work and her groupmates could not write either. I think they may have been customers of those essay-writing services! Incidentally, I had a look and it was £200 for a humanities essay. Now, £200 ain't bad but if you are going to have to custom write one for each student to avoid plagiarism then that is hours, nay days needed to earn £200.

Bit of a soapbox, excuse me. wink

Ha ha - no problem - Virgils - many years ago I did Eng Lit. Not unacquainted with low contact hours - but also somewhat appreciative ( inter alia of your list ) of an excellent library. Wouldn't be surprised if DS is similar.

Rhoda - Am I naive ? surely not many people pay for an essay. Please tell me not - I don't know of any .

Virgs, sounds like my German. I have pretty good understanding but do not speak it enough for my spoken German to sounds as good as I am if you see what I am.

..see what I mean....

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/05/29/essay-writing-industry-booms-as-students-demand-tailor-made-cour/

One essay-writing firm they mention has 50 staff. Big demand, methinks.

Interesting, Rhoda. The issue of a newly arrived overseas students not knowing what an essay should look like is a real one - both my DSSs took a little while to get up to speed on essay writing when they started at university in the U.K. - but an essay writing service is a bit OTT. DSS1 used at first to email me his essays to proofread and for comment but it was his essay and his thinking.

Offer day this week. My son had no complaints about the organisation (Bristol). He wished they had booked a later train than 4pm back as the questions at the end of his subject talk were just getting going but he and his friends had to rush for the train - it was already a 12 hour day even leaving for the 4pm train back though so I doubt they missed too much. They saw round some accommodation but not where I think he'll apply to stay in and I think he went with friends who are more likely to accept Durham so he got negative vibes from the friends but is still tending towards Bristol.

He got a nice bag to take home with some leaflets in and most of all just giong to the place and seeing the reality of it, getting a train, noticing the distance, cost of the journey, seeing the City and accommodation, some sample lectures was all very good. He just about never complains about anything ever though, very positive boy, so he is probably not the best person to assess a day.

I went to a couple with both dds 1 and 2 after dd1 went off to the first one on a train with a friend, only to return and tell me everyone else had turned up with a parent. Who knew? How things have changed since I was at university! (Uni is a word I can't bring myself to use.)

Luckily, my daughters made good choices for them. They wanted a feel for the city - for eg, Exeter lovely but both wanted somewhere bigger, idea of where they might live after the first year, a building they wanted to learn in, see if there were current students there with similar outlooks, staff that sounded clever and interested in them. Up to date library.

Dd1 liked the look of Manchester but within 5 minutes of arriving was ready to leave - bad organisation, guides couldn't even point us in the direction of Law department! Immediate reaction. Thought Nottingham campus was lovely but too far out of town so that clarified she didn't want that kind of setting. Birmingham - no Erasmus opportunity etc. Dd2 liked Southampton and somewhere else I can't remember because they invited her to politics talks/debates with well known polticians and wrote to her about her personal statement. Chose somewhere entirely different though...

Can't imagine asking as a parent what night life is like!