How involved are you?

[Sturmundcalm]

DD will be doing uni applications this yr (although probably won't go for 2 years) and we do talk quite a bit about her plans but I do very little... Partly cause she's looking at options that are beyond my experience and partly because she's v keen on going abroad and I think if that's her hope then she really needs to be v independent.

Am I leaving her to it a bit too much though?? Don't want to disadvantage her by not getting involved!! She is v driven and does seem to be on top of it all.

If she's on top of it then you're fine.
We've driven to some uni open days, but dropped and spent the time in the town by ourselves. It's the first step to adulthood and it's important that they take it.
Check that deadlines for applications etc are being met, otherwise it sounds like she's good to go!

Like most things, it depends. If she is applying for courses where they will make offers in the basis of predicted grades & a cursory look at her personal statement you can probably safely have a hands-off approach. If it's a very competitive course and/or they interview if is probably worth doing some research yourself just so can ensure she hasn't missed anything vital.

It also depends in personality. I would have balked at any input from my parents but my dd seemed glad I took an active interest.

Sturmundcalm You can always go to see the school's Higher Education counsellor along with your daughter, or the school may give a presentation where you can find out all of the basics / musts, and make a note of the various deadlines (as previous posters have said), but, yes, I think it's fine for you to leave your daughter to approach her applications independently. Good luck to all!

Son s school has a policy of non interference from parents and the admissions tutors are well aware. Input was therefore zero for the personal statement and minimal discussion on 5 choices. He auditioned for 3 out of 5, one he arrived late for audition, uni of Birmingham who withdrew his offer and refused another audition despite the train delaying him. He did all university visits alone. For me it was hugely important not to interfere and for him to be capable of getting around and dealing with the unexpected.

I'm with you OP.

I did driving and discussion.

They are quite capable of drafting, deciding and form-filling. And they need to know that they are capable of navigating it.

Plus you don't won't to end up on one of the weird threads for chronically over involved parents, discussing the intricacies of your final year student's timetable/thesis/love life

It depends on the DC. DD used to involve me a lot; DS hardly at all.

I think that you are doing the right thing: talking to and trusting your DD, and using MN to vent your hopes & fears.

If you're based in the UK, and she's thinking of studying outside the UK, you will need to be more involved, as it's very expensive. And after we exit the EU stupid stupid effing Tory 51.8% there is no guarantee that EU universities will be cheaper than UK ones, or available on the same basis which they are now. There's no guarantee that the Erasmus scheme, offering a semester or a year abroad in an EU university, will the available on the same terms either.

And after we exit the EU there is no guarantee that EU universities will be cheaper than UK ones, or available on the same basis which they are now.

I would go further than that: it is not just that there is no guarantee, it is highly unlikely that the EU universities will be available on the same basis as now. It is highly unlikely that Erasmus will continue to exist - Switzerland lost access the moment they broke freedom of movement rules.

And if we slap down visa requirements for EU students EU countries will reciprocate. Given that we currently charge non-EU students £500 per year for visa/NHS surcharge, that's the kind of level you should expect to pay in the future for study visas/health care in Europe, on top of fees.

(Switzerland pay themselves for a version of Erasmus. I find it really hard to believe that a country which doesn't pay for HE, but which makes students take loans, would pay for an Erasmus scheme.)

We do not charge £500 per year for a visa for non EU for higher level studies in the UK. A single fee is charged, so long as entry clearance officer is happy that the person will follow the entire course, the visa/entry certificate is issued for the entire period which can be up to 5 years. If there are doubts for a course longer than 12 months, well then they will be charged to renew. In reality, more than 90% of higher level non EU students get their visas/entry certificates for the full period of their courses. The fees vary between countries too.

OK, so it is around £300 for the tier 4 visa (which lasts three or more years) and then around £150 per year for the NHS surcharge. But for somebody doing a single exchange year that would still be around £500 for that year.

The bottom line is that if the idiots who are anti-EU and not-managing Brexit insist on breaking the freedom of movement principles within the EU, we can whistle for any sort of "special arrangement" post-exit from the EU.

I think people will get quite a shock ...

A Tier 4 visa lasts anywhere between 12 months and 5 years.

Yes, indeed that's what I meant: they can get one single visa for a full 3 or 4 year course. But they obviously don't get a visa for 5 years if the course is only for 4 years. They need to leave when the course finishes (apart from the special pilot schemes running at Oxbridge, Imperial and Bath currently).

BTW the minimum length is not 12 months: it is less if the course is shorter e.g. if you are attending one semester of a course as a visiting student or spending 6 months as a PhD student working with a UK academic.

What country would she like to go to and what is her nationality? As others have mentioned access to EU universities may become problematic.

However, if she is interested in the US, I would suggest that you get more involved. US universities/colleges select student based on different criteria then do UK universities and I am sure she would need help navigating the system.

As others have said it varies according to the DC.
Some 17 year olds are not only mature but know exactly what they want. Others need help.
DS1 knew exactly what he wanted to do but needed some practical help. He took himself off to open days and summer schools but struggled to deal with people and bureaucracy.
DS2 socially confident but no clue what he wanted to do. I tried to help him make choices that would keep his options open and pushed him into doing lots of open days and visits to explore choices.
You know what's best for your DD.

It depends on the school, some schools like LifIsUnjusts get involved on your behalf but other schools like my kids school do next to nothing. If your kid is at a halfway decent private school you have effectively contracted out your involvement

It also depends hugely on the child.

I have 4 DC at Uni and unsurprisingly had a completely different experience with each of them.

I didn't attend a single open day with DC1 but every single open day with DC4 - different kids have different preferences. I don't even think it's got much to do with how independent or capable the child is. DC4 is very independent but she wanted my company and feedback on everything
She made her own choices but she liked to chat them over with me. I didn't accompany her to subject talks and things like that but we wandered around the campuses together and chatted things over. She welcomed my feedback as did my other kids when I helped them.

Often it's much, much cheaper and convenient to drive DC to open days and I have found it a great opportunity to hang out with my DC.

I found that it was a much simpler process for my DC with the highest predicted to apply for Uni rather than my DC with more middling predictions. The reason being that the top Unis are all good and you are not going to go far wrong with any of them but with the mid ranking Unis there seemed to be massive differences between the quality of the courses and the Universities.

Also, if you are not going to achieve top grades then it seems even more imperative to box clever and really examine the pros and cons of each Uni.

All my kids have ended up on courses and at Unis that they love.

Haybot, the under 12 month entry clearances are different, it's my job to do them. I could write essays on them, but I'm not going to bore you. Tier 4 general is different to under 12 months - most are STS with no right to work,, visiting academic, too many blooming categories and the post study visas have also just re-appeared, I can hardly keep up with them all myself.

My son went to state boarding so it was one of those perks to the boarding fees which have crippled me financially and I ended up paying for the past 2 years (when the other person withdrew all financial support a week before starting). I was very glad to be told to butt out and let my son / school deal with the UCAS stuff.

I did go to an open day but not interview/audition day to what ended up as the firm choice, simply because I was passing by that day and I'd never been to Guildford. I had a feeling it was going to end up as favourite so it was a pre-meditated decision. If I go to any further open days with the younger children, they'll all be for my own selfish reasons of wanting to look around a city I've never visited.

My son did say he saw very few candidates at the auditions without parents and I do hope his lack of parental (interference) was an advantage. He's even already managed himself a part time job offer at his firm choice, all on his own. He's my most "dependent" of the 4 so I was pleased to see him finally making his own decisions without consulting me.

Op. As you mention studying abroad , I do think you need to realise this is a very different proposition to studying here. The USA in particular. You can easily familiarise yourself with the system, suitable courses and how young people apply. You don't have to helicopter - I never read my DDs personal statements but I did help them get to open days and sift through possible universities and courses. There is no reason why you cannot take an interest and living away from home is not the same as a parent not taking any interest before they go!

I would like to think some sort of Erasmus will still be available and there are many great courses at uk universities with a year abroad. Best of both worlds !

We all might like to think that some form of the Erasmus scheme will survive, but if the Brexiteers insist on limiting freedom of movement in Europe, it just won't.

Leave voters will soon need to face facts about what they voted for.

There are many great courses at uk universities with a year abroad.

It's far from clear how the financing for these (year spent in Europe) is going to work, as students on the year abroad in Europe are currently also funded under Erasmus. If parents have to pay up front fees for the year abroad, plus living expenses and medical insurance/visa, then the year abroad will be unaffordable for many families.

We're about to start the university application cycle for 2017, for which the year abroad would be 2019/2020 (after we leave the EU). Universities aren't really sure what to say about these courses as we know nothing about what the fees/living expenses/medical insurance/visa status will be. We're expecting a crash in enrolment for such courses.

So we presumably will see a crash in MFL applicants - again? Just when we need those skills most of all. I completely agree that people voting for Brexit did not understand the consequences. We had friends round yesterday and they didn't care about students going abroad as they thought it was akin to a jolly. They are highly educated but are selfish.

It depends on the child. Some have wanted more input than not. They are at very good fee paying schools so even leaving it to the school is fine in their case. The two applying in September have had some chats with me and I have looked at the draft UCAS application. I did also do one check of the older children's UCAS personal statement. I have never been to a unviersity open day but neither have most of my children - they are content with youtube as it involves less time.

I've made sure that all of mine have put a range of universities on their UCAS form - two universities if they nail their predictions, two slightly below, and one backstop. There's no point in putting down five very similar places.

Other than that, it's a case of "mouth shut/wallet open".

Obviously if they were on a disastrous collision course, I would intervene.