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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Despite having the right grades, my child is not applying to Oxbridge because ....

887 replies

TalkinPeace · 20/08/2015 11:43

  • she wants to live in self catered accommodation
  • she does not like the small sizes of the colleges / social units
  • having to go back to college for lunch while doing a lab based degree does not make sense
  • the whole gown and formal dinner stuff smacks of coat tails rather than standing on own feet
  • she does not fancy fighting through hordes of tourists while moving between buildings
  • having a tutor picked by which college they are based in rather than their research specialism seems very odd to her

Also, for what she wants to do, the course at Oxford is not that well balanced
and Cambridge, despite having a fab course was not a place that felt like home when she visited for 2 days.

So she will be putting other Universities on her form and taking a great deal of stress out of this house.

For what its worth, those of her friends I've chatted to are also ruling out Oxbridge in favour of other Unis because of the first four points.

What are other people's reasons for ruling out Oxbridge, despite having the grades?

OP posts:
RaisingSteam · 20/08/2015 13:29

If she likes the course at Cambridge I would give it serious consideration. I would not worry about small colleges, they are just halls of residence. She will spend more time with the hundreds of people on her degree course. I'd look at a larger college with good modern halls in addition to the ye olde bit: Queens maybe?

Yes Cambridge is a small city but what exactly is she missing? Miles of council estates? Due to the university it has facilities of a much bigger place. And you are only there half the year and too busy to really notice. why not take the chance to go somewhere a bit different to home?

You get cheap, good accommodation, normally very close to your labs. Don't underestimate how much easier this makes it to concentrate on your work.

The DD's/friends' approach sounds like reverse snobbery but more concerningly, misinformation and stereotypes. A shame some of these children will miss a great opportunity.

Gruach · 20/08/2015 13:36

Tell her that if she doesn't go you'll have to reiterate these "reasons" on Every. Single. Oxbridge. Thread. for the next fifty years.

BitOutOfPractice · 20/08/2015 13:41

G1veMeStrength I think that is a more legitimate reason than, I don't like where I'm supposed to eat lunch" which isn't true anyway it would seem Grin

BoboChic · 20/08/2015 13:41

The only good reasons I can sympathise with for not trying for Oxbridge despite being of the right academic calibre are: wanting to live in a metropolis (UCL/LSE/Imperial/Columbia beckon); wanting to live in another country (Harvard/Yale/McGill beckon); not wanting to live in college with its very distinct restrictions/advantages that do not suit everyone).

SheGotAllDaMoves · 20/08/2015 13:50

There are plenty of legitimate reasons for not applying to Oxbridge.

But they are not what this thread is about.

talkin thinks her DD should give it a punt. Her grades are at the give-it-a-try end of things, but even so I agree with talkin ! Her DD has been wanting to give it a try for years ( based on MN) and is talking herself out of it now because it's a long shot. She's coming up with various daft reasons which are frustrating OP ( don't blame her ).

If it were me talkin is be honest. Don't buy into said daft reasons. Certainly don't try to find other ones on the internet. Just smile and agree it's her choice.Smile.

balletgirlmum · 20/08/2015 13:52

My dd will not be applying to Oxbridge when the time comes even if she gets the right grades (& she's a whizz at interviews) because they don't do degrees in dance & musical theatre. Hmm

ClaudiusMaximus · 20/08/2015 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AtiaoftheJulii · 20/08/2015 13:57

My same-aged dd2 isn't applying for Oxford or Cambridge because she doesn't like their courses. If she produced any of the reasons in the OP I'd be asking her to elaborate and rethink. (And also asking wtf "smacks of coat tails" means!)

As she's produced a few courses she prefers, for very specific reasons, I'm not arguing - I honestly think the only reason for her to ignore what she actually wants from a degree and apply to Oxbridge would be to have an Oxbridge degree, and I don't think that's enough.

ClaudiusMaximus · 20/08/2015 13:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/08/2015 13:58

The only good reasons I can sympathise with for not trying for Oxbridge....

I'd have thought the main one was if the course wasn't what you really wanted to do. We're currently pondering why oxbridge and a couple of other good unis offer 'general engineering' and what the pros and cons are versus doing straight Elec/electronic eng for someone who knows they want to be specificall an elec/electronic engineer. I was similarly somewhat baffled (back in the day pre-internet, I had no idea how research such things) by Nat Sci if you knew you wanted to do chemistry (we know cambridge 'chemists' who were surprised to find DH or I from a redbrick knew more chemistry....).

ClaudiusMaximus · 20/08/2015 14:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SacredHeart · 20/08/2015 14:06

My tutor suggested I apply but as I am a mature student I have too many commitments where I live and commuting would be too far.

It would have been fun if I were younger but I am glad to be getting my degree full stop.

AtiaoftheJulii · 20/08/2015 14:07

Claudius I definitely worry about the fear of 'failure' for my dd2 - especially as dd1 will be going to Oxford in October, and dd2 always compares herself to her. I have pissed off dd2 more than once lately by quizzing her on her decision not to apply to Cambridge (a year ago she was dead set on it), but I've pretty much assured myself that her reasoning is sound!

SecretSquirrels · 20/08/2015 14:13

If those grades had been sufficiently stellar I suspect she might have applied anyway. If they made her an offer she could turn it down if she still wanted to choose her university based on catering.

As a parent of a DC who yearned from an early age to go to Cambridge but ended up missing his STEP grade I can tell you it's a very stressful process.

Lots of DC have good enough grades but don't fancy Oxbridge. DS2 has good enough grades to apply but to my relief he isn't interested partly because of his DB's experience.
Having said that there are many, many other excellent places to go and by and large it seems they all find somewhere that suits them.

RaisingSteam · 20/08/2015 14:13

Erroll for engineering definitely consider elsewhere too. I liked Cambridge but didn't get a very good degree due in part to too much of the wrong sort of engineering. Imperial?

Gruach · 20/08/2015 14:17

Too late to change your mind SacredHeart?

SacredHeart · 20/08/2015 14:54

I'm totally happy with where I am going and with a husband and a mortgage travelling or stating that far south is not going to happen.

It wasn't meant to be. But I'm going to the local RG which scores very highly in my degree and has large funding for masters and Doctorates so I have a great opportunity here.

addictedtosugar · 20/08/2015 15:12

Talkin . I didn't apply to Oxbridge for NatSci 20 years ago. I have lived in Oxford. I like it as a city (but think London is too big!). The industrial engineering placement, if DD can get one is an amazing experience, and well worth doing.

Someone asked re engineering: from working with lots of enginners post gradustion I'd say if you like the theoretical calculation side of engineering, Oxbridge is great. If you want to be out problem solving on a manufacturing site, getting your hand dirty, it possibly isn't the best intro.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/08/2015 15:32

Thanks for comments re eng (hope TiP will forgive slight hijack!) - I've heard that eng at Imperial can be more like a degree in applied maths. I think DD would prefer a course which combined theory and hands-on.

EstuaryView · 20/08/2015 15:33

One clarification, though you said it was a lesser point, OP, and forgive me if it is covered above: the college Tutor is your personal tutor - i.e. for your well-being - and does not organize your studies; it’s arguably better to have someone outside your subject area who you just relate to as a human being. Unless things go wrong you don’t see much of them. Your Director of Studies (DOS – irony) is just what it says: she/he oversees your studies, including arranging topic/subject supervisions with Supervisors who may or may not be at your college (and might supervise you for some courses her/himself). If it's a 'small' subject your DOS might be at another college

But your DD does not have to apply for Oxbridge, and as someone said up-thread, that decision doesn't need to be justified. Yes, she does not appear to be fully informed about how Oxbridge works, but what 18 year old is? More to the point, going to either place with 'attitude' is not likely to lead to a happy experience. These universities are daft in parts, great in parts, and if you're going to get the most out of them, go with an open, enthusiastic mind, ready to make the most of opportunities that appeal and ignore those that don't. Her gut feeling is not to apply, and it's better to go with that than have a sinking feeling later. I wish her well in choosing universities/courses that suit her better.

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/08/2015 15:36

I don't have anything to add about misconceptions already corrected (though, goodness knows, all students have a few misconceptions about wherever they go).

But, isn't all of this quite normal, talkin?

I used to teach while I was doing my PhD at a university where most students had grades a bit below Oxbridge but not much - the commonest reasons they gave for not applying to Oxbridge (if they hadn't) were not liking the course, and not fancying living in that town.

Most people I know who got Oxbridge-worthy grades and didn't apply also say the same.

If you want to be in a big clubbing town, there is no point trying to live in Oxford or Cambridge.

If you care about the course, there's no sense choosing one that doesn't interest you so much.

And, TBH, I think it's fair enough to be put off by tourists - sure, it's a superficial issue, but most of us have some superficial issues that bug us. I know people who chose universities in the countryside because they really didn't like being cooped up in town - it's not so very different.

What I suppose I'm saying is, why are you posting? Do you think your DD is unusual in some way, and needs reassurance there are loads of people like her (if so: don't worry! She's normal). Or what is it?

JeanneDeMontbaston · 20/08/2015 15:38

Oh, and in case I sound negative: I don't think she's wrong to have what can seem like silly 'gut reaction' reasons when they're on paper.

When I was 17 my dad dragged me round Oxford and clearly hoped like mad I'd apply. I just didn't like the feel of it. Nothing more profound than that.

So I didn't apply, and now I can look back and be absolutely certain that was the right decision for me, in ways I can articulate much better now. Anecdata, I know, but still ...

BoboChic · 20/08/2015 15:41

It's also perfectly possible to hate Oxford and love Cambridge (or vice versa). They are very different towns.

RunAwayHome · 20/08/2015 16:06

If the course isn't for her, then fair enough.

Lots of colleges of varying sizes, though, and you also get to mix with undergraduates from loads of different colleges, increasing the social pool to both those you live with (but doing lots of courses) and those who are doing similar courses to you. You can also get involved with e.g., music, as many different colleges, not just your own.

You can self cater at many of them, particularly in second and third years. Sometimes you pay a small termly charge regardless of how much you eat in college, but often it's not that much. And the food in colleges is often very good value and quite good. It's quite nice to go back for lunch! Good break in the day, and very convenient in many colleges. And you can bring your friends back with you. The formal hall is much less formal than people think - yes you wear a gown on top of your normal clothes, but that's about it; there are only one or two really posh dinners a year. And all of it is optional.

Tourists are a much bigger problem in the vacations than in term times! Bigger problem is moving through crowds of students! And really, students are based on a 'site' with lots of lectures/labs, and their colleges, and tourists don't really go into the lecture sites. Between there and colleges, yes, sometimes. In college, depends which college you are at - old, town centre ones, yes, not so much the lesser known ones further away. But again, there are very restricted areas that tourists can go. Open days would not be a good indication of what it's like, because it's out of term time, and in tourists season!

College tutor is pastoral, which is really useful to have someone unconnected to your course - they help with things like funding and health crises and wanting to change course and whatever else you might need. You also have a director of studies, who is in your area, and then in later years, more specific people related to your subject who supervise you and help with dissertations etc.

Doesn't sounds like she's very open minded about it all, in which case, probably best if she doesn't apply, but if the course was really suitable for her and she was rejecting it for superficial reasons like this, she might think again.

People find in Cambridge what they want to find. If they are assuming it's going to be filled with snobs and that it's all spoiled brats, then they will find people like that (because they are there). If they assume there will be lots of ordinary people who are not snobbish and just really enjoy their subjects and are fascinating and interesting people in their own right, then they will find that (because they are also there). I think it's really a case of confirming your own prejudices! There are so many lovely and passionate people from everywhere, amidst the ones who are snobs and spoon-fed.

I think open days are probably not a great judge, either, because I don't know if those who apply are a good representation of those who actually get in. I've known quite a few snobbish types who apply, thinking they have fantastic grades and backgrounds, but don't get in, whereas the passionate student from an ordinary background goes.

All that said, though, I don't think Oxbridge is the be all and end all. There are lots of courses at other places that are probably better in that specific field, and get ignored because of the public perception that Oxbridge is somehow better, which it isn't necessarily. It is very good in some ways, and suit some types of students very well. But there are lots of equally good ways to get an excellent degree. If she doesn't like the city, then fair enough. No reason to apply, if there are other things she wants to do. But it would be a shame to reject a course that is ideal for her because of reasons that might not be valid.

MyEvenNewerAccount · 20/08/2015 16:11

It's perfectly ok not to want to apply to Oxbridge even though you have the grades.

Personally I would have loved one of my DC to go to Oxford. I think it's an incredible place, both the Uni and the city.

However, I presume the OPs DD will apply somewhere equally amazing or even somewhere that is actually better than Oxbridge for her and her course