Despite having the right grades, my child is not applying to Oxbridge because ....

[TalkinPeace]

• she wants to live in self catered accommodation
• she does not like the small sizes of the colleges / social units
• having to go back to college for lunch while doing a lab based degree does not make sense
• the whole gown and formal dinner stuff smacks of coat tails rather than standing on own feet
• she does not fancy fighting through hordes of tourists while moving between buildings
• having a tutor picked by which college they are based in rather than their research specialism seems very odd to her

Also, for what she wants to do, the course at Oxford is not that well balanced
and Cambridge, despite having a fab course was not a place that felt like home when she visited for 2 days.

So she will be putting other Universities on her form and taking a great deal of stress out of this house.

For what its worth, those of her friends I've chatted to are also ruling out Oxbridge in favour of other Unis because of the first four points.

What are other people's reasons for ruling out Oxbridge, despite having the grades?

Point taken, but I assume that it is one reason for private school students doing disproportionately well in terms of good University offers. Its been strange for us, as the high aspirations of peers seem often to originate from peers' parents. So we have only needed to reassure DS that as long as he was reasonable purposeful at school we would be content.

Character also came into play. If he had been a different sort of boy we would have sent him to a different school. There again we feel this about Oxbridge and DD.

Oh I agree the students often take their aspirations from their parents need for them to achieve.

I've spent a lot of time this year reassuring my DD that we are proud of her even though she didn't achieve the high grades that her peer group did.

Interestingly she has gained a lot more softer skills and experiences than her peers though this year. Being in a less competitive uni has enabled her to gain valuable experience running things, both in the uni itself and representing the uni nationally. I doubt she would have got a look in at some other places as her friends have found.

This has led to paid work experience, offers for next year, things her peers have not managed to get at all.

It is in the job description of parents to set standards. Of course DC get their aspirations from their parents. That's why it's so hard for outreach programmes etc to break through: low family aspirations.

Yes, it is to a certain extent, but the trick is getting a standard that is achievable.

I agree. It's no use setting standards that are either independent of a child's abilities and aptitudes, or independent of the opportunities and support that you can provide.

I know a mother who told her 10 year old that she wanted him to learn two languages fluently by the time he grew up. At 18 she expressed her extreme disappointment that he hadn't achieved this goal. But she had done nothing, bar send him to normal crap-at-MFL school...

Well I dunno.

My Mum was very ambitious for me. And there was almost nothing she could do to assist other than cheer lead.

With all the will in the world, SheGot, I doubt you learned anything in a void.

Not a void, I don't suppose.

But my parents were not a position to teach me much. They both left school at 15. And they had no social capital. And no money to buy anything that might have helped my ambitions.

This isn't self pitying BTW. They did everything they could, with what they had. But the truth is they didn't have much .

There is a difference between outputs and outcomes.

Education/child rearing is a long term game. We want our children to become happy, independent, resiliant, thoughtful adults who will make good partners and parents. Yes we want them to achieve to their academic potential. However too much trying to fit square pegs into round holes runs the risk of being counter-productive. Children who are under-parented may suffer, but the same has to be true of children who are over-parented and who are not allowed to make choices for themselves or who are only rewarded for their achievements, can suffer equally. So Oxbridge as a target is fine if that is the child's ambition. Not if the child feels they have to go to please a parent. Or if thought had not been given to what might be the best course or the right place.

One poor friend of DS' was already putting in all night library stints in his first term at University. Despite this he is unlikley to achieve better than a 2.2. Presumably he achieved the grades that got him onto a competitive course by working equally hard and aiming high. Right course? Right place? Best outcome?

My dc's (at a non selective comprehensive academy) seem quite happy to aim high. They only care about competing within the family. Outdoing a brother or sister is the main aim.

One got an interview at Oxford & didn't get in, but the interviewers were absolutely lovely to her and congratulated her on getting to the interview. She is really happy with the university she will be going to soon and has no regrets having gone through the application process. Her view is that a job interview won't be half as scary now.

My younger dd got really high GCSE's for her school and is talking about applying. I've told her she needs to get good AS results and if she does then she may as well give it a go as she will still have four other universities to pick from. One person got into Oxford from her school with grades of ABB so I guess they make allowances occasionally.

Sure. But parents who have little can aspire to high standards and support their DC to the hilt in whatever educational pursuits they have at their disposal. That is quite different to parents setting goals for which there are no resources.

A friend of mine was born to Berber parents who arrived in France from Algeria illiterate and who never learned to read. My friend's father died when my friend was 9, leaving the mother alone with 4 DC. My friend made it to a top French b-school and we met as colleagues in a consulting firm. My friend's siblings didn't get their bac. My friend is super close to his family and they are all super supportive of one another and happy with their lives. The "cheerleading" was super important to my friend's success, even though the resources were French state school and absolutely nothing else. That's a better sort if parenting by far than the parents who set goals that are impossible to fulfil without additional resources they need to supply and purchase.

Oh yes. And I was very well cared for both by my parents and ( huge) extended family.

DD went for lunch today with a friend who has moved school 7 times and is pretty much independent. His parents are divorced and do their own thing. He looks after himself .