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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

My girl has set her heart on Oxford or Cambridge. Encourage or ignore????

292 replies

Ilovemyrabbits · 04/06/2013 20:47

DD is 12...I know, it's very young and she's got a long way to go before we seriously need to consider this BUT...she is a very determined young lady who becomes very focussed when she has a goal in mind. She is academic and does well at school but she's not always top of the class. She's not overly outgoing, but she mixes well when she needs to. She has told all her friends she wants to go to Oxford or Cambridge. Her Y6 teacher told her she could do this if she wanted to. In the teacher's defence, she has two daughters who have gone through the Oxbridge process successfully and I think she was trying to be encouraging.

I am torn here between wanting to encourage dd in her aims, because it's good to aim high, and wanting her to be grounded. She's quite a sensible girl, even at 12, but I'm trying to figure how to deal with this. Part of me thinks, keep quiet...it's a long way before the decisions need to be made and she may well adapt her plans by then. Another part of me thinks, she's stubborn and what do we do if she sticks with it?? Should we be encouraging her now? Asking teachers if she's capable? Or what????

Neither her dad nor I went to university, so I guess we're a little out of our comfort zone here. Does anyone have any advice for me????

OP posts:
senua · 05/06/2013 10:05

Thank you for your kind words upachimney.

I would be delighted to know your undergrads were benefiting from my words of wisdom makes a change from the DC totally ignoring them!
Grin

mummytime · 05/06/2013 10:15

Encourage! 12 is the right kind of age. Do point out to her how much hard work it will take. See if the school will encourage her too. Go and visit (look at their websites for information). Get her to be passionate about a subject/study area. Encourage her to do things that are hard for her (whether Rock Climbing or Public speaking). Argue with her, and encourage her to argue back.

Lots of people do get to Oxbridge from State schools, and they want to encourage more.

Somethingyesterday · 05/06/2013 10:15

OP Your daughter sounds wonderful and of course you must encourage her. In addition to all the spot-on advice above I would suggest that , if possible, you take her to visit both towns. No need for anything formal - just let her enjoy wandering around and getting a feel for what they mean as real places. (Assuming you haven't done so already...) The more familiar she and you become with the idea, the more motivated she may become to work really hard. Which can only be a good thing. By the time she has to apply to university she'll know for herself exactly what she should be aiming at. I would not, personally, be too concerned about seeking extra opinions on her current ability. (Too much like "dealing with a problem...) Let it be an adventure.

xylem8 · 05/06/2013 10:30

It depends a heck of a lot on what subject you want to do there, on just how competitive it is to get in.

Somethingyesterday · 05/06/2013 10:47

OP It's awfully easy to give advice from a distance - but I do feel excited for you. As you say, neither you nor your husband has experience of university, but your daughter wants to take you on that journey. Obviously we don't know where you are in the country, or what kind of holidays or trips you favour. It doesn't matter - but why not embrace university town visiting as a thing you do as a family? Whether it's Edinburgh or Bologna, wherever you go over the next few years - be sure to have a poke around the university area. Normalise the activity! I should imagine your daughter wants your approval and encouragement more than anyone else's.

StellaNova · 05/06/2013 11:08

I went to Cambridge to read English in the late 90s from a council estate/ generally non-university going background (although I did go to a grammar school). For some reason I always just assumed that I would go to Cambridge from an early age, a bit like your daughter, so I am trying to think how people behaved towards me. I think I would have been a bit gutted if my mum had said "well you know you must work hard and you might not get in" because I would have interpreted that as "I don't think you are good enough to get in and you do not work hard enough". But I was very sensitive to criticism (still am!).

I always felt that my mum and dad were behind me and never felt they had any doubts about me getting in, they didn't "encourage" as such but they never discouraged either - however on the downside I think I would have felt guilt about letting them down as well as being pretty devastated if I hadn't got in, so the idea of bigging up other universities is good I think as long as it doesn't make your daughter feel you don't have confidence in her. Twelve is pretty early to decide if someone is Oxbridge material or not.

angusandelspethsthistlewhistle · 05/06/2013 12:45

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ilovemyrabbits · 05/06/2013 13:39

Thanks for all the advice. I know it's early days and I'm sure that things will challenge her desires, be it boys or social activities or whatever else young teenage girls get distracted from school with. I will take on board all the different points that people have said though and will at least be secure in the knowledge that I'm not putting my size 8s in my size 7 parenting mouth as it were.

I had already started to use her desire to push her to widen her reading choices, to explore activities that will help her to build on her strengths and assist with weaknesses. I have talked to her already today about the fact that Oxbridge is a great goal to have, but only if it's right for her when she's older, ie if the courses are right and if they think she's a good fit. I've said that part of the selection process determines whether you're right for the school as well as the other way around, and being right or wrong for the school is no indication of how well you can do academically. You can achieve your goals no matter where you go, but aiming high is always the best plan. As a family we have been driven by positive thought, aiming high, setting goals and planning effectively. As a result, we ain't done too bad for two luddites and we've both tried to teach dd that she's got the whole world to learn from and a whole lifetime to learn in.

I love the advice that she should want to learn to the best of her ability rather than have her aim set at a specific destination. We have always tried to teach her that the journey is as important as the destination, sometimes more so, and with education, that's surely the case? She's very old-headed and fixed, so I usually have to sew seeds to get her to change her mind on anything, though she has always coped well with disappointment and change, so I think (based on her limited 12 years with us) she'll cope if she doesn't end up there. I think now is a good time to plant the idea that it's the quality of her work that counts and the enjoyment she gets from it and see where that takes us.

Thank you for the lovely compliments...and she is a wonderful girl. She's also a little hormonal, stroppy and argumentative, but as others have said, even that may be something we can turn to her advantage :D We often say that having a stance on something is only valid if you can back up what you believe with facts and empirical data. Learning about your opinions and reasoning why you hold them is fascinating and informative, and can help you out if you're having a heated discussion!

Posting on a forum like this can make it seem like an OP is obsessed about an issue that really shouldn't be on the radar right now, and I did 'um' and 'argh' about whether to post, but I really was so torn between going, 'you're 12 sweetheart...come back to me at 15 and tell me this and we'll work on it' and 'yay dd, good for you. Work hard and aim for the stars. If nowt else, you might reach the moon'. Your advice and information has helped me to know how to steer things when it becomes important and how to be encouraging of her ambitious, 12 year old thinking.

Oh...and 'trip wise' we have been to Durham, Lancaster, Birmingham, Bordeaux, Paris and our home is in Sheffield, so we've had a little experience of university towns. DD is totally convinced that no matter what happens, she's not going to study here! She wants her years of adventure, thank you very much :)

OP posts:
mummytime · 05/06/2013 13:57

Do go to Oxford and/or Cambridge as they are quite different as places.

Ilovemyrabbits · 05/06/2013 14:11

Oh...and thanks for the advice on English. That's her favourite subject and the direction she wants to go in. I have told her she needs to join library groups, book clubs, debating forums, etc, and have told her to read classic literature, but confess I'm not totally sure what I should be steering her towards here. I did ask her English teacher to give us a list at the last parent's evening, as he said she needed to expand her reading but we never saw said list, so I'm guessing. She likes her post apocalyptic stories, so I'm thinking Oryx and Crake and Brave New World to get her out of the modern day writing, then maybe some of the lighter classics, like Jayne Eyre and The Hobbit. I think I'll hit google to see what books I need to add to that list.

OP posts:
Yellowtip · 05/06/2013 14:11

She does sound very old and serious for her years OP.

And do you go on holiday anywhere other than uni towns?!

Ilovemyrabbits · 05/06/2013 14:12

Thanks mummytime. I will put both on the 'hitlist' for trips in the summer, just for fun.

OP posts:
Ilovemyrabbits · 05/06/2013 14:15

Oh God, yes, Yellowtip. We holidayed last year in Florida. DD declared that she'd like to come back to see the coast, do some shopping and check out the Everglades, but she wasn't overly interested in doing Disney again! This year it's back to earth with a bump...we're heading for Northumberland. She loves the beaches and the castles.

OP posts:
Ilovemyrabbits · 05/06/2013 14:17

I do struggle with her old-headedness as I'm more like a 7 year old than she's ever been!!! I despair at times about how sensible she is and worry that she'll miss out on things because of her single-minded approach to things,but I guess we're all different. And DH can see her perspective and explains it to me, as I can't always relate to her that well.

OP posts:
mummytime · 05/06/2013 14:36

If you do go to Oxford, do try to get to the Pitt Rivers museum, if only as it is my favourite one of all time.

You could talk to your local librarian for ideas too, in my experience librarians love to share their knowledge of books.

IKnowWhat · 05/06/2013 15:29

mummytime. The Pitt Rivers Museum is my all time favourite museum too. I love it, it's exactly what a museum is meant to be. Grin.

I love Oxford, I don't know how anyone can visit and NOT want to study at Oxford University. I get a buzz from eavesdropping on the students chatting inthe numerous coffee shops. It is a very inspiring and beautiful place.

I would love to apply myself Wink but I don't think their widening access schemes are quite wide enough to include me Hmm

Ilovemyrabbits · 05/06/2013 16:14

Lol IKnowWhat. The Pitt Rivers Museum is now on the hit list.

OP posts:
LadyLech · 05/06/2013 16:24

Angus - my DH works at an Oxford college, and the admissions tutor for his particular college has said that she has no interest whatsoever in the applicants extra curricular activities (unless it is at an exceptionally high level / relevant) All she wants to see is passion for the subject.

It may be different at other colleges though.

angusandelspethsthistlewhistle · 05/06/2013 16:47

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Ilovemyrabbits · 05/06/2013 16:59

I can see how the extra activities at this age, and over the next few years, can help a child to develop a passion for their subject, or dissuade them from their initial choice. It's something I'm hoping dd will take on board, but it's a case of seed-sewing at the moment.

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angusandelspethsthistlewhistle · 05/06/2013 17:02

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TeWiSavesTheDay · 05/06/2013 17:19

I know lots of people that went to Oxbridge fairly recently (most still there just starting PhDs - a few there doing PhDs now having failed to get in as undergrad's as well)

I will tell my kids that the passion for their subject is the most important thing - the friend I have who was offered a place even if she got less than perfect grades (fairly rare now) is the one who had spent years reading books and doing activities related to the subject she studies/is becoming an academic in.

My other friends were less extreme than that! But could all speak fluently and independently about their subjects, instead of just regurgitating other people's opinions. I have to be honest and say lots of my friends are children of academics themselves, so that kind of expectation or level of knowledge was probably more natural to them than it was to someone like me who is not from such an academic background, and was a bit lost and confused at that point in life! So that kind of attitude is one to encourage. A really good tip is to buy a left wing and a right wing broadsheet newspaper and have them around the house. That way if something catches her eye she can read about it from different points of view and learn how to decide what she believes for herself.

I got decent grades and went to a newer University - discovered that I could feel the same passion about academics, and met lots of other people just like my friends, they're all doing well and one of those is an academic now too, so I'm not going to make Oxbridge the be all and end all for my kids either. You haven't failed if you don't get in, and there are still lots of brilliant Universities in the UK.

MummyMastodon · 05/06/2013 19:03

If nothing else, extracurriculars demonstrate time management, they can't hurt an application.

Ilovemyrabbits · 05/06/2013 19:21

This is where Mumsnet comes into its' own. I've managed to get advice from people who have been through this in their own teenaged lives, have experienced it through the lives of others or are have been in this position as a parent themselves. Even the dissenters have been useful in making me think, ah, that doubt I had was right too. :) Thank you all so much and if I'm still asking for university advice in 3 years time, I'll be a very happy bunny :D

OP posts:
senua · 05/06/2013 23:30

have told her to read classic literature, but confess I'm not totally sure what I should be steering her towards here

TES top 100 books.
BBC Big Read.
Encourage her to write reviews.