My girl has set her heart on Oxford or Cambridge. Encourage or ignore????

[Ilovemyrabbits]

DD is 12...I know, it's very young and she's got a long way to go before we seriously need to consider this BUT...she is a very determined young lady who becomes very focussed when she has a goal in mind. She is academic and does well at school but she's not always top of the class. She's not overly outgoing, but she mixes well when she needs to. She has told all her friends she wants to go to Oxford or Cambridge. Her Y6 teacher told her she could do this if she wanted to. In the teacher's defence, she has two daughters who have gone through the Oxbridge process successfully and I think she was trying to be encouraging.

I am torn here between wanting to encourage dd in her aims, because it's good to aim high, and wanting her to be grounded. She's quite a sensible girl, even at 12, but I'm trying to figure how to deal with this. Part of me thinks, keep quiet...it's a long way before the decisions need to be made and she may well adapt her plans by then. Another part of me thinks, she's stubborn and what do we do if she sticks with it?? Should we be encouraging her now? Asking teachers if she's capable? Or what????

Neither her dad nor I went to university, so I guess we're a little out of our comfort zone here. Does anyone have any advice for me????

Ok TOSN, I guess I have my reasons.

I guess so, yes - I just wouldn't want the OP to feel she can't do right for doing wrong because of them.

Dd is priveliged in as much as she's an only child of older parents, only grandchild of even older, sole surviving grandparent (now 82) and only niece of a not too ancient aunt who has no children. Each owns a property that's mortgage free. Aunty is moving in with grandma in the near future and half the money from her very modest 2 up 2 down will go to dd at that point to be held in an account for her. For some people it would be enough to buy a nice car but we are not rich, so to us it's a fair amount.

We could have privately educated but it would have been a squash and a squeeze financially and we decided instead to pay off our modest mortgage, 3 bed semi oop north, so we wouldn't be rich by many people's standards. To us, though, having worked for everything we have, we see that dd's well sorted for the future and we will probably downsize when she goes to uni, hopefully getting her onto the property ladder, plans willing.

I can see I've said something to ruffle yellowtip's feathers but I'm not sure what. She may be thinking that we've pleaded working class but clearly aren't. We are, in terms of DH and myself. His dad worked in a timber yard and mine was a miner. He was better off than me cos his dad had two kids and his mum ruled with a rod of iron. My dad had 6 kids and was a mysogynist who kept my mum barefoot, pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink, having lost his own mum to another man at a very young age (truly scandalous in his day).

We are both non graduates. I had clawed my way up the ladder but gave up work when my daughter was young, probably because I lacked confidence in my career, despite doing well in it. DH has done brilliantly and is a technical consultant in the construction industry. He's well paid and loves his job. I want that for dd and I want her to have the confidence to believe in herself, something which seems to be working out ok for her right now.

Xenia, your practical advice is much appreciated. Having taken exams early myself at secondary school, I always thought that was a good thing. I never thought of the ramifications of this on a university application as I never applied to UCAS myself. I will go find the better schools from various threads from mumsnet and check out their sites for exams to take.

There's no harm in being prepared, as far as I can see. Thanks again for the support and encouragement. I think balance is the key and I'm sure, like word factory, dd won't lose sleep if she doesn't hit the giddiest of heights right now. Mind you, prime minister sounds like a close escape word factory rather than a source of disappointment.

I will go find the better schools from various threads from mumsnet and check out their sites for exams to take.

Simples. You are going the high-flier route so
for GCSE it's the EBacc and
for A Levels it's "informed choices"

Your DD might want to do other subjects (which is perfectly acceptable if she has a good argument to back her reasoning) but, as a rule of thumb, she won't go far wrong if she has a solid base of old skool subjects.

senua I could kiss you. Thanks. Have bookmarked the links. You are a star x

In short, encourage, encourage, and then encourage some more. Your DD has Oxbridge in her sights, and if you try to steer her elsewhere who knows how she might feel towards you later on. Despite what some posters have said, you don't by any means have to be privately educated to get in, particularly if a candidate doesn't limit their options by picking a particular college. Oxford and Cambridge are at the top of the university charts for very good reason, and in my view someone who wants to go there should be given all the encouragement in the world.

Your dad was a miner and twice on this thread you've said 'Oop North' ? . OP there are a number of people on these MN threads who had working class roots or very poor immigrant roots and don't resort to the sort of clichés that you do but have nevertheless done exceptionally well. The cliché to beat all clichés is to say that you're so ill educated that you can't resist clichés. word grew up with not much in material terms it seems but look where she is and where her children are. My dad arrived in England with only a suitcase and I've sent four kids to Oxford. And look at Russians too, not just an unmoneyed background but very serious illness and early bereavement to deal with too. The worst thing you can do for your DD is to land her with emotional guilt about your own regrets or feelings of hardship and to make her feel that there is an imperative to 'achieve'. I've seen lots of DC set their heart on Oxford or Cambridge and not get a place even on reapplication and that's hard for them and made harder by the intense attitude of some parents. You asked the question: encourage or ignore? Somewhere inbetween I'd say, and loosen up on the whole underprivileged background thing - this child is privileged, no question.

And yes indeed, half of a modest two up two down, even oop north, would buy a very, very nice car.

Sorry, sorry: three oop norths!

On the question of extracurricular activities, my tutor atOxford told all the candidates "I don't give a stuff about grade 8 violin or DofE or being captain of rugby. The candidates who are best at maths will be offered places. End of story."

If it's going to be Oxbridge, I'd definitely go for Cambridge not Oxford - and that's saying as someone who's working at the latter. To say the students here are precocious bordering on smug is an understatement. There's education but then there's also molding personalities into something you may not recognize or want...

sorry 'moulding..'

Apologies for not reading the whole thread.

M parents took us on 'causal tourist' visits to Oxford from the age of c. 8. Indoctrination of the gentlest sort - this is a nice place, it's a university, this is what a university is.

Continued at about the same level - we were always just 'passing through' - for several years every couple of years, just seeding the idea.

No heavy pressure from then on in.

All of us went to Oxbridge.

I am sure that had we not been the spotty, nerdy types we all were, it wouldn't have seemed a sensible thing to do with us and my parents wouldn't have done it - but I have always been grateful for that very low-key nudge.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned the Russell group of Universities - Oxford and Cambridge are in this group, but so are lots of other good universities, including two I went to, Bristol and Exeter (both great places to be a student)
I think I'd encourage her, especially by visiting these cities/ universities and looking around (Oxford and Cambridge), but to include some of the other good uni's too.

angus I have absolutely no chip whatsoever. None. That's very simplistic. My dad, if the question ever arose, which it almost never did until he died, insisted he was incredibly lucky. I just find the OP annoying with all her working class poor me stuff when so many others have done so well from the same sort of background. I also think she's remarkably well informed already, given what she says of her ill educated background. The main point is that all the evidence suggests that OP will overload he DD emotionally to achieve Oxbridge wise but shouldn't, since there's so long to go before it's all in the bag.

WJet Are you finding this across all subjects?

Havent read through the whole thread but I would say plan and encourage ie yes to planning for a good school etc.
I dont know about the wisdom of talking about specific universities at a very young age. I remember that programme 7 up where they had a clutch of prep school 7 year olds who knew they were going to go to Oxford and then be lawyers and thats what they did. For the rest of the world life isn't so certain. But the shortage of childhood is certain. The best schools do give children fantastic opportunities and aren't just all grind. The best homes are where parents have made a comfortable safe happy secure warm place thats full of laughter and joy and nice food and stuff and the security of knowing that your family love and support you no matter what. Creating that secure memory is as essential to Oxbridge entry as any good school is. But you know this.
There is nothing wrong with ambition of course. I think at 12 I wanted to be prime minister. I cant remember when I gave that up but I had all sorts of happy plans for running the country. So do encourage the child to dream. Dreams and aspirations are important.

Oxford do a 'unique' summer school which she can go to when 15 yrs, not too far away, you could look it up and apply, school will need to write a report for it. Cambridge and the Sutton trust do a similar one. They are both residential and free.

Take her to lots of museums and concerts and theatre and poetry readings etc if you can, to widen her horizons and talk about what you see, and take a newspaper in, such as the Times or Guardian and discuss current affairs together so she gets in the way of articulating her thoughts on subjects. The Times do a student subscription very cheaply. And lots of country walks of course so she grows up healthy!

www.uniq.ox.ac.uk/

www.suttontrust.com/summer-schools/uk-summer-schools/

angus I've scanned over the thread and I can't see anywhere that I've asked the questions you say I've asked other than asking the OP about her own career since school, since she seems very articulate (but I didn't want to patronise). I've certainly not 'demanded' financial details or made any comments whatsoever either way about the DD being an only. It's not a big deal but I'd prefer it if you got your facts correct, at least in relation to me.

Quite an odd observation from william. Do they all emerge as clones then william and what would you say are the distinguishing features? I don't think I fully understand the connection between precocity and smugness either ....

In answer to your own question of me, and ignoring the point about my opinion of this child going to Oxford or Cambridge (something on which I'm of course utterly neutral), I would say that none of my children bear the faintest resemblance to this child as she's described to us by the OP.

williamjet I think that must be a gross generalisation!

You can't possibly have even met and got to know that many students, can you?

Doing exams early - well all mine were a year early as I was a year young at school and went to university at 17 but what I was advising against was picking off exams bit by bit as it can look more impressive if you have your string of As from one sitting at the end of GCSE 2 year courses all in one go. Also I think doing about 8 - 10 is enough and any school pushing for more should be resisted as it is better to do better in the 8 core ones than not so well in more particularly in less academic subjects. Check on the relevant universities' websites as to what A levels to do (eg law which no good private school does is a soft often and is not going to help you get into university to do law and obviously it helps to have 3 science A levels for medicine etc). In other words it does no harm for the parent to do research rather than leaving it to the school particularly if the school does not have many going to Oxbridge or other good universities.