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Guest post: "This September, my daughters won't be going back to school"

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 30/08/2016 12:49

When we first considered home education, I pictured handwriting practice, daily reading tasks, desks and mini-projects. I used to be a teacher; I imagined some kind of co-op, where I'd teach four or five children Stuff I Knew and another parent would include our children in a similar group for Stuff They Knew.

We decided to opt out of the school system after a brief dabble with preschool for Evie, who's now five - her four-year-old sister Clara won't be starting school this September either. Society can sometimes laugh, with varying degrees of mirth, about the lack of fun and creativity in schools. But given the government push for testing and an ever-narrowing curriculum, we stopped laughing and just felt a bit sad. We decided that home educating would suit our family better.

Of course, we had early worries about doing the right thing for the kids; qualifications; making friends; the embarrassment of telling people.

Although I'd initially envisioned a kind of school at home, my children don't learn that way; in fact, few of us learn that way. It's how schools work because there are 30 children in each group with one adult, and that's hard to manage. It's what has always been done.

We're usually wet or muddy or covered in ice cream or - on good days - all three. Some days I'm Queen Elizabeth I at Hampton Court Palace (but a nicer one at Evie's instruction, because our ginger queen wasn't known for her benevolence) and the girls are my daughters (but secret, illegitimate daughters, because she didn't have any really). Other days we might go back to check on some tadpoles at the park. The girls are enthusiastic explorers and biologists. I'm a rather repetitive and slightly irritating Protector of the Tadpoles. No tadpoles have been harmed, but many have been stroked.

I always knew that these kinds of activities were legitimate ways of learning, but surely you'd also need lessons, or some form of structured teaching. I had read a bit about unschooling but I wasn't really convinced. The essence is that you live with your children and allow them to live: offer lots of opportunities and resources, and allow the children to choose how they spend their time. Be supportive and talk to them. It's the parenting that most of us did when our children were babies and toddlers. They learnt to talk and walk, and recognise individuals, they knew their colours and how to count, and how to stack things, and what would make them feel better if they got hurt. As I started to look for and find learning in ways that don't look like school, this way of educating, and living, made the most sense to me.

We're lucky these days that lots of unschooled kids have grown up and been to university; they're getting good jobs and living satisfying lives without ever having faced the stress of year 6 SATs or last minute Sunday night homework or bullying.

So we're unschoolers. We don't do it in exactly the same way as anybody else, because everyone has their own set of interests and learns in different ways. We go on all sorts of trips organised by home educating parents - to museums and nature reserves and sites of historical interest - and a whole lot of unorganised trips to parks and IKEA and the swimming pool. We read lots of books and go to the library to get more. We play with toys. We watch a lot of Netflix and YouTube and are currently in a phase of playing an abundance of Kirby's Epic Yarn on the Wii.

We spend time with lovely friends and travel around the country to see family. We never take tests; we're never limited by a curriculum; we don't sit if we want to run, nor do we run when we need to sit.

I don't worry about the same things any more, which luckily leaves me time to worry about the mess, or the sibling squabbles or what we'll have for tea instead. I know this is the right choice for us. If they need qualifications there are plenty of ways to get them; they have lots of friends of all ages; and I'm not at all embarrassed to tell people that we're not on holiday, actually, we home educate.

OP posts:
Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 14:18

Even as a light-hearted comment, Simon, it reveals a lot about your thinking.

corythatwas · 01/09/2016 14:21

What I found, Sam, is that people who do base their meetings around the car get impatient very quickly when they find out you don't intend to drive- and a group of them is not suddenly going to turn round and start meeting in an accessible way just because a new member says she doesn't want to drive.

If there is not a large number of HE'ders living nearby, even meeting in somebody's garden is likely to involve travel. School had the advantage that dc got thrown in with lots of local children who all lived within walking distance.

Perhaps this is just me being hippy, but it isn't just that I am unable to drive (which I am); it is also that I feel very uncomfortable about unnecessary driving. If there was a way I could provide dc with a social life which did not involve anyone driving, then I felt it was right to do so.

(Eventually, dd ended up needing some transport due to disability, but that was unavoidable).

SamMN · 01/09/2016 14:29

corythatwas certainly a car helps :D I live in a rural area and would be stuffed without it. Our local bus runs once a yr when the moon is in virgo..

Natsku · 01/09/2016 14:47

I'm "outsourcing" DD's education because I'm clever enough to know that I'm not clever enough to teach her Grin

But its not just the academic side, she goes to early education and will go to school also to learn that she is part of a wider society, that she is not more important than others (if I was teaching her at home she'd be the most important, and that's not healthy for a child - she doesn't have any siblings as yet and any that come would be so much younger they won't be competition to her in that way), that she needs to care for others. These are things that are learnt much better in a group as they are putting theory into practice constantly every day in daycare/school. The curriculum in her daycare has a big emphasis on becoming ethical members of society - she has certainly learnt a lot of that from the two years she's been there that she just wasn't learning at home despite my best efforts.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 14:53

Our kids do things in groups... so that bit is not really relevant. They are also part of "wider society" every day.

Natsku · 01/09/2016 15:00

Its relevant where I live, there are no homeschool groups (except maybe very small ones in the bigger cities). Besides, a group headed by parents of members of the group operates differently from a group headed by a non-biased adult (teachers).

SamMN · 01/09/2016 15:03

Teachers have a different kind of bias. Everywhere you go will have some form of bias. We counteract that as best we can by mixing with a wide range of people in life and having as many experiences as we can. Yes living far from a HE group can be challenging however HE kids do play and mix with school kids. Socialisation is one of the biggest myths around home ed.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 15:07

Teachers have a different kind of bias. Everywhere you go will have some form of bias. We counteract that as best we can by mixing with a wide range of people in life and having as many experiences as we can.

I agree with this, but that's exactly why I prefer my dd to be exposed to the bias of various teachers, rather than only my own and those of my friends and acquaintances.

Natsku · 01/09/2016 15:09

I'm not talking so much about socialisation as I agree its entirely possible outside of school (and actually think a lot of the time the socialisation should be done without adult intervention as children learn to moderate their behaviour through the natural conflicts that come up during play) but that some things children learn better from 'outside' adults than their parents as they are a different kind of authority. Its a bit hard to put into words exactly what I mean (hence me not being clever enough to teach!)

Natsku · 01/09/2016 15:12

Indeed Brokenbiscuit (god I miss buying bags of broken biscuits from the garage across the road from school!), although I have a fairly varied acquaintance group with quite different biases, I still want DD to be exposed to even more.

BluePancakes · 01/09/2016 15:13

This thread is hilarious!

I've nearly caught up (finally read the first 700 posts...) and some of the generalisations/myths that are being perpetuated by both sides of the fence, as it were, is really funny.

Not everyone who was home educated grows up to have hated it. In my local group there are two mums who were HEd themselves who now choose to HE their own children.

Not everyone who home educates hated school themselves. Personally, I enjoyed school. I was bored at times, but that's par for the course, but overall school was a positive experience for me. I came out of school with lots of qualifications and went to Oxbridge. However, I do not believe school to provide the best education for myself, nor do I think it would provide the best education for my children. If my children decided they wanted to go to school, I would allow them to try it - my eldest is 9yo, and can't think of anything worse atm. If our circumstances changed such that my children had to go to school for some reason, we would embrace that. I don't think schools are automatically bad, I just think a tailored education to the individual to be better.

Of course HE children have friends. It's my girls' birthday party this weekend, and we've had trouble limiting it to 30 kids. These are a mix of HE friends, and schooled friends from the clubs/activities they attend.

The discussion about maths has made me laugh too. To counter the teacher who has met many previously HE kids who can't add ok, the PP didn't quite phrase it like that I'm a maths and physics tutor, and have never tutored HE students. If it wasn't for schools failing their students I'd be out of a job. Wink

In truth, there will be people who struggle with maths whether they go to school or not, and there will be people who find maths easy, whether they go to school or not, and a lot of people in between. For us, we unschool, so I don't do any formal maths with my girls, but we play loads of games together. They know fractions, decimals, negative numbers, triangle numbers, square numbers, Fibonacci sequence. They can add, subtract, multiply, divide, do basic algebra, know basic geometry, etc etc. Not a stealth boast, honest, more an overview of types of maths that can be learned through every day life and discussions and observations of things around us. I'm a maths tutor, and firmly believe it is much more important for people to have a deep and thorough understanding of maths and numbers, than it is for them to be able to regurgitate answers/methods to find answers without understanding it. As such, I don't plan to get my girls to do any written maths before the age of 11yo at all. That's not to say we don't write things down; I'm a visual learner myself, so I find it easier to write down notes when I am explaining concepts. I just don't force it on my children.

And again, how to teach things you don't know. Well, as has been explained multiple times, it is not often you have to "teach", merely facilitate their learning. As for myself, I learn from books, from TV, from other people, and I do many courses just for fun! from FutureLearn and Coursera. My children often join me with some of these (we've just done a course in Basic Science from FutureLearn together) but they can't get a certificate in their own name until they are 13yo.

And groups, obviously it depends on where you live, but where I live not London there is at least one HE group every day Mon-Fri. Any time a child wants to do something, the parent tends to ask "does anyone want to join us?" and if enough people are interested, a group gets set up. There is a huge breadth and variety of groups, that we can choose from. In addition to this, the usual "extra-curricular" activities are available for HE kids too, so my girls do dance and gym "after school".

Pteranodon · 01/09/2016 15:18

Mindsweeper

It is harder for more introverted parents but it is less pressured to be a parent at an HE group than in some other situations, people are IME very understanding of different people's needs and preferences, and we are all there for the children (though some enjoy seeing parent friends too of course). Some parents bring work or admin to do while their children socialise, some take turns with friends to be the adult responsible for a few kids and yes, some things - especially classes - are drop-off. I know HErs whose kids go to holiday clubs/summer camps too, these are drop-offs of course.

FireSquirrel · 01/09/2016 15:24

'It matters that they're meeting all different sorts of personalities, people from different backgrounds, people with different needs,'

I think home ed caters for this well. I do get baffled at the idea that home ed won't prepare children socially for the real world because home ed is the real world, it's learning about the world by being in it! My children have some friends they see only at home ed groups or mainstream groups, others that they see several times a week to go to the park or playdates at each other's houses. They have lots of friends in the local area who go to school and they play out with them most evenings - I have never noticed those children having a less close friendship with my kids than the ones they go to school with. They have a close relationship with their cousins who they see regularly, and they also have a great relationship with adults in our community. They love to chat to people on the bus and are confident speaking to staff in shops, etc. Their main group of friends ranges in age from 3 to about 14; the older ones love helping out and guiding the younger ones and the younger ones love learning from the older ones. Seeing the older lads climbing trees gave mine the confidence to try it and with a bit of guidance from the older kids they're now expert tree climbers!

They have friends of all ages and backgrounds. Home edders are a massively diverse group and for many, the only thing they have in common is that they home educate. My kids have several friends for whom English is not their first language and they also have friends who's lifestyles and social circles are so different from ours that we almost certainly wouldn't have crossed paths if not for home ed.

In contrast, their stepsibling who goes to school (through choice) couldn't be more different! He rarely hangs out with anyone in a younger year group ('too babyish') or an older one ('not cool'). He wouldn't be seen dead talking to an elderly person on the bus and would rather spend hours wandering around lost or looking for something in a shop than ask an adult for directions. When he does have cause to talk to an adult he is often awkward and stuggles to make eye contact. Now, I expect teenage hormones have a lot to do with it and I'm not for a moment saying that his behaviour is due to school, what I am saying though is that I don't think being home educated has put my kids at a disadvantage socially, and that school is not a garauntee of good social skills.

FireSquirrel · 01/09/2016 15:34

It's also worth noting that while children in school may spend several hours per day in the company of their friends, very little of that is free, unstructured, non adult-directed time, which is so essential for teaching a myriad of social and emotional skills needed for adulthood. There's a brilliant TED talk by developmental psychologist Peter Gray where he discusses the importance of free play and how the decline in play has led to an increase in childhood anxiety, depression and mental health issues. Not an argument for or against home ed per se, but makes the point that it's the quality of time spent with others, rather than the quantity, which fosters healthy social development. My home ed kids don't always see their friends for several hours every single day, but they do get plenty of time for free, age mixed, adult-supervised but not adult-directed play.

Natsku · 01/09/2016 15:38

That's where the school system where I live does better than the UK system FireSquirrel as there's 15 mins free play outside after every lesson and the school day is only 4-6 hours long (4 hours in the earlier years) after which children generally play freely in the neighbourhood because school finishes several hours before parents finish work so many hours of free play every day. I can definitely understand being concerned about a lack of it in the UK system (although I did have a good amount of free play when I went to school)

SamMN · 01/09/2016 15:59

"That's where the school system where I live does better than the UK system FireSquirrel as there's 15 mins free play outside after every lesson and the school day is only 4-6 hours long (4 hours in the earlier years) after which children generally play freely in the neighbourhood because school finishes several hours before parents finish work so many hours of free play every day. I can definitely understand being concerned about a lack of it in the UK system (although I did have a good amount of free play when I went to school)"

That sounds so much better that what UK kids get.

Waitingfordolly · 01/09/2016 16:54

The socialisation might be good for some kids but for mine the bullying was so bad she no longer wanted to be alive.

gillybeanz · 01/09/2016 17:24

We didn't attend any group as there wasn't a very large active group in our area and we usually had other commitments when they met on a monthly basis.
We did join some of the soft play sessions though, but only a few times.
She is very sociable though so has always had plenty of friends of all ages who are schooled. So she could play with any of them whenever she wanted to, outside their school hours. No parental involvement at all here, except maybe somebody needed a lift.
In terms of working in groups she belonged to lots of music ensembles and choirs both when schooled and H.ed. The main difference being we were able to travel for her music work, something we couldn't have done if she attended school.
The rest of the time when not travelling for work she would practice (up to 4 hours per day), read, write her journal, diary, bake, play, meet with friends, have family time, visit friends and family, go on holiday etc. Pretty much what schooled children do, with the added bonus of freedom of time and choice of subject/ topics to investigate.
She certainly doesn't think she missed out on anything and has said she will H.ed again if things don't work out at school.

ourserendipitoushome · 01/09/2016 17:24

Hiya Mindsweeper I am an introvert and I did find that certain home ed activities sent me into stimulation overload.

I have gotten a lot better at managing this as I have gone on. Not spending hours on end, choosing who I socialise with, trying to be outdoors where possible etc.

Of course you can't always control the environment of the activity you sign your kids up too, or they ask to go too, but I can manage what I do when I get home, and if that means I build in down time, then I build in down time.

I have 2 extroverts and 2 personalities like me (we like the right people and company, but spend hours at home recharging and enjoying our own company), and 1 true introvert.

It was tricky managing everyone's needs (along with my own) but we did it. Maintaining balance and being aware of what needed was key. Families are give and take environments and hopefully everyone's needs get considered.

ourserendipitoushome · 01/09/2016 17:33

Brokenbiscuit but most home ed kids I know, don't spend all day everyday with only their parents.

A really common thing in HE is parents forming co-op type arrangements where they group together and pay a teacher, or utilise free activities in the community (run by education facilitators in museums etc).

This means that children are learning to take direction from other people, and aren't just subject to a particular bias.

I know in my own circle of friends, I have Muslims, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics, Pagans etc. Anytime my children spend time with these families they learn values and world views that are not our own.

These parents also often volunteer to help run things in our community.

That is without groups like scouts, sporting groups, friendship groups, religious groups, youth groups etc where obviously leaders and parents all have different world views too.

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2016 18:08

I think home ed groups where parents band together and share expertise, pay for a tutor for certain subjects, or do part time college are probably fine.

What worries me are the home-edders who claim they can teach whatever subject to whatever level (or even worse, will just leave their kid to get on with it) while doing things like confusing maths with basic arithmetic.

Natsku · 01/09/2016 18:09

Forming a co-op group and hiring a teacher sounds rather like making your own school.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 18:13

Forming a co-op group and hiring a teacher sounds rather like making your own school.

Exactly what I was going to say...

ourserendipitoushome · 01/09/2016 18:14

Natsku

No it's more like what parents of schooled children do after-school, but during the day.

It's no different to sending your child to an after school drama class except we pay the teacher.

ourserendipitoushome · 01/09/2016 18:15

Brokenbiscuit

A parent volunteering to run a choir or a philosophy group where kids do things in a larger group for an hour or two a week (or month), is very different to school.

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