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Guest post: "This September, my daughters won't be going back to school"

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 30/08/2016 12:49

When we first considered home education, I pictured handwriting practice, daily reading tasks, desks and mini-projects. I used to be a teacher; I imagined some kind of co-op, where I'd teach four or five children Stuff I Knew and another parent would include our children in a similar group for Stuff They Knew.

We decided to opt out of the school system after a brief dabble with preschool for Evie, who's now five - her four-year-old sister Clara won't be starting school this September either. Society can sometimes laugh, with varying degrees of mirth, about the lack of fun and creativity in schools. But given the government push for testing and an ever-narrowing curriculum, we stopped laughing and just felt a bit sad. We decided that home educating would suit our family better.

Of course, we had early worries about doing the right thing for the kids; qualifications; making friends; the embarrassment of telling people.

Although I'd initially envisioned a kind of school at home, my children don't learn that way; in fact, few of us learn that way. It's how schools work because there are 30 children in each group with one adult, and that's hard to manage. It's what has always been done.

We're usually wet or muddy or covered in ice cream or - on good days - all three. Some days I'm Queen Elizabeth I at Hampton Court Palace (but a nicer one at Evie's instruction, because our ginger queen wasn't known for her benevolence) and the girls are my daughters (but secret, illegitimate daughters, because she didn't have any really). Other days we might go back to check on some tadpoles at the park. The girls are enthusiastic explorers and biologists. I'm a rather repetitive and slightly irritating Protector of the Tadpoles. No tadpoles have been harmed, but many have been stroked.

I always knew that these kinds of activities were legitimate ways of learning, but surely you'd also need lessons, or some form of structured teaching. I had read a bit about unschooling but I wasn't really convinced. The essence is that you live with your children and allow them to live: offer lots of opportunities and resources, and allow the children to choose how they spend their time. Be supportive and talk to them. It's the parenting that most of us did when our children were babies and toddlers. They learnt to talk and walk, and recognise individuals, they knew their colours and how to count, and how to stack things, and what would make them feel better if they got hurt. As I started to look for and find learning in ways that don't look like school, this way of educating, and living, made the most sense to me.

We're lucky these days that lots of unschooled kids have grown up and been to university; they're getting good jobs and living satisfying lives without ever having faced the stress of year 6 SATs or last minute Sunday night homework or bullying.

So we're unschoolers. We don't do it in exactly the same way as anybody else, because everyone has their own set of interests and learns in different ways. We go on all sorts of trips organised by home educating parents - to museums and nature reserves and sites of historical interest - and a whole lot of unorganised trips to parks and IKEA and the swimming pool. We read lots of books and go to the library to get more. We play with toys. We watch a lot of Netflix and YouTube and are currently in a phase of playing an abundance of Kirby's Epic Yarn on the Wii.

We spend time with lovely friends and travel around the country to see family. We never take tests; we're never limited by a curriculum; we don't sit if we want to run, nor do we run when we need to sit.

I don't worry about the same things any more, which luckily leaves me time to worry about the mess, or the sibling squabbles or what we'll have for tea instead. I know this is the right choice for us. If they need qualifications there are plenty of ways to get them; they have lots of friends of all ages; and I'm not at all embarrassed to tell people that we're not on holiday, actually, we home educate.

OP posts:
SamMN · 01/09/2016 13:27

"Houseconfusion Thu 01-Sep-16 13:19:41
You are so keen to throw your parental rights away, we are not. Or our child's...
This sentence above is not a home educator criticising the choices of others, then?"

Please provide context eh? This was in response to us all needing social workers as well you know.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 13:28

Where is the choice for your kids?

Actually, dd and I have talked about home education previously, as she has a friend who is HE. She would hate not to have the opportunity to go to school.

That said, school probably doesn't suit everyone, and I'm sure some kids would be glad of the chance to opt out. Whether or not that would be good for them would depend on the alternative. What is clear is that there are some HE parents who invest loads of effort and skill into HE and do an extremely good job of it. There are others who frankly make a mess of it and let their children down.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 13:29

"MindSweeper Thu 01-Sep-16 13:20:41
I asked how you combat the lack of socialisation, I was genuinely interested to hear how you do this yet instead of answering me you launched an attack on schools. You had an opportunity to display how you do it, yet you didn't."

We have listed how and when we socialise often on this thread. We even provided a link for you to watch a video. Do you need spoon feeding?
Our kids mix in the real world everyday with a range of people.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 13:30

brokenbiscuit then you are a rarity. Most parents do not give their kids a choice :)

Houseconfusion · 01/09/2016 13:30

Sam MN countless sentences of yours criticise schools, criticise parents who send their kids to school. You know it, and it's there for all to see.

So, responding to the comment of home educators here aren't criticising the choices of others, please, of course you are.

pentomino · 01/09/2016 13:31

Fulltimemummy85 - Teachers facilititate opportunities for children to socialise, trips clubs, groups, parties etc. You will also find schools are for building life skills apart from qualifications, Teachers care about children and understand there has to be balance.

No one is saying this is not the case. We are discussing home education and unschooling and how that works, not what happens in schools or to schooled children out of school.

What we are saying is that as HEders we have found that just by following interests, living a fun packed life, doing the activities we want to do, offering opportunities and mixing with lots of people in the course of all of that - that our children do learn the essential skills taught in schools without having to make them sit down and learn it. That our children are learning literacy and numeracy and about science and how the world works, about history and art and many many more things.

It sounds unbelievable because it goes against what school has taught us about how people learn, that it must be broken down into small chunks and worked through from A to Z and tested as you go along. That knowledge can only be passed from one person to another and not acquired without this teaching. But my experience of learning and my observation of my children learning shows me this is not true. When I need a new skill, like when I decided that I wanted to build myself a website, I read some webpages, I thought about it, I bought a few books, I read the intro then skipped to the chapters that covered what I needed in my site, when I had a problem I asked a friend, I debugged, I posted on forums for help. Finally I had the website I wanted and along the way I learnt a lot about how to design and build sites, so much so I ended up with a career in it. My kids learn in a very similar way, they try stuff out, they ask questions, we look at books and the internet, they try again and in the process they create things they want and learn along the way.

Way way back at the beginning of this comment thread someone said it can't be all that lovely and romantic. Of course we have bad days of sibling fights and no one being able to agree on what to do. But actually the learning really is as wonderful and fun as the original post describes. For me and my family its a wonderful way to live and learn and I wouldn't do it if I didn't enjoy it. It is a positive choice not a backlash against school.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 13:31

For the home educated child, there is no bell which rings and tells them that they must now end an interesting conversation or game.

No, and while I can see the positives of this, I have also seen the negative consequences that can make it difficult for some HE children to cope with structure and routine in their adult lives.

MrsLupo · 01/09/2016 13:35

We have nothing to hide. Get your own house in order first. You are so keen to throw your parental rights away, we are not.

Haha, we need an eyeroll emoticon, MNHQ. The sooner the better. And maybe a [rtft] icon. I'm pretty sure that's not how I characterised my position.

FireSquirrel · 01/09/2016 13:37

Nothing is being said about negative experiences of school because that's not what this thread is about.

Granted, but the implication seems to be that there are problems with the whole idea of home ed, rather than that it just didn't suit these particular individuals. I don't doubt there are people who for whatever reason don't feel they enjoyed or benefitted from being home educated. I also know lots of adults who were home educated who felt it hugely benefitted them, and in some cases saved their lives. I know people who had an awful time at school and feel their time at school impacted negatively on their adult lives, and others who absolutely loved every part of school and can't understand why anyone would want to be home educated.

Personally I am interested in hearing from people who had a bad experience of home ed, I do want to know the reasons why and I would (and have done) take those things into consideration when home edding my own children. Hearing other people's experiences can be extremely valuable. What I wouldn't do is let it put me off the entire idea of home ed or make me believe that home ed is inherently flawed as some posters here are suggesting. It is absolutely not the right option for everyone, but it's a brilliant option for many.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 13:38

brokenbiscuit then you are a rarity. Most parents do not give their kids a choice :)

I'm not saying that I would necessarily give dd the choice.Wink Merely that if she had it, she wouldn't take it.

I suppose if she was desperately eager to experience HE, I would at least consider it, but on balance, I think she gets a better education at school, and I would really struggle to replicate those opportunities at home.

Of course, I might think differently again if I didn't have very good schools locally that share my basic values with regard to education. If I thought that the schools couldn't offer her what she needed (and the education I wanted for her), then my first choice would be to find a school that could. If all else failed, I suppose I might pull her out and do it myself, but for me it would be a last resort and definitely not a positive choice.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 13:42

Personally I am interested in hearing from people who had a bad experience of home ed, I do want to know the reasons why and I would (and have done) take those things into consideration when home edding my own children. Hearing other people's experiences can be extremely valuable. What I wouldn't do is let it put me off the entire idea of home ed or make me believe that home ed is inherently flawed as some posters here are suggesting. It is absolutely not the right option for everyone, but it's a brilliant option for many.

That sounds like a very reasonable and rational point of view, Fire.

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 13:43

' can make it difficult for some HE children to cope with structure and routine in their adult lives.'

of course, the opposite case also happens. That is to say that young people leave school having had their learning monitored and controlled to the Nth degree within a highly structured setting and are then quite unable to learn anything unless they are told what to read and then afterwords told what they should think about what they have just read! I think both scnenarios may happen and neither is desirable.

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 13:47

'Merely that if she had it, she wouldn't take it.'

Some would call this 'institutionalisation'! Many children become dependent upon school for the very act of learning and are at a loss when that support is withdrawn. This is why many children would not dream of learning anything or even picking up a book during the summer holiday; unless they are specifically instructed to do so by a parent. I am bound to say that this does not seem to be quite so much the case with children who have not attended school.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 13:48

of course, the opposite case also happens. That is to say that young people leave school having had their learning monitored and controlled to the Nth degree within a highly structured setting and are then quite unable to learn anything unless they are told what to read and then afterwords told what they should think about what they have just read!

Yes, I think that's a valid point.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 13:49

"of course, the opposite case also happens. That is to say that young people leave school having had their learning monitored and controlled to the Nth degree within a highly structured setting and are then quite unable to learn anything unless they are told what to read and then afterwords told what they should think about what they have just read! I think both scnenarios may happen and neither is desirable."

I have certainly seen this here with the kids in the summer holidays. They are struggling without every little thing being decided for them.

brasty · 01/09/2016 13:53

As a child I used to read about 4 books a week, including the classics. I certainly did not need to be directed. And I still read lots and learn lots. But that is my passion. My sister loved sports and would have spent all her time playing sports if she was able to. She hated reading.

Pteranodon · 01/09/2016 13:54

Mindsweeper

My children socialise at HE groups, we have choices of groups every weekday in term time and go to as many as they want to, I'm always happy to take them. We see some of a core group of friends at each of these.

They also socialise at and after drama, horseriding & climbing classes, and have the usual play dates and sleepovers and calling on lock friends after they get home from school.

My eldest (7) is deciding if he wants to join Woodcraft Folk, St John's Badgers or both, these and Cubs/beavers are very local.

If socialising became too difficult and they were feeling isolated, we'd consider school, but it has been great so far.

Pteranodon · 01/09/2016 13:54

Lock = local

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 13:55

Some would call this 'institutionalisation'! Many children become dependent upon school for the very act of learning and are at a loss when that support is withdrawn. This is why many children would not dream of learning anything or even picking up a book during the summer holiday; unless they are specifically instructed to do so by a parent

Some might indeed call it institutionalisation, but I'm afraid they would be wrong! And also incredibly patronising.

My dd is more than capable of learning without school, and does, regularly. She reads almost constantly, without ever needing to be told to pick up a book Hmm and she is currently in the process of teaching herself German. Please don't assume that kids who go to school lack motivation or the ability to learn independently - this is not my experience in the slightest.

It isn't that my dd is incapable of imagining a life without school. Rather, she just prefers her own life with school in it. For some kids, school is a fabulous, positive experience, just as HE may have been fabulous and positive for your daughter. Is that so very hard to understand?

bellanotte22 · 01/09/2016 13:57

Ah I do love it when people with no actual experience (made up scenarios to justify your prejudice excluded) feel they are qualified ney compelled to comment on the choices of others.

Ahh but Bella you may say, this is Mumsnet home of the strong opinion and platform to say it. Well by all means have your say but maybe take on board what the people who are living the life you condemn are telling you.

So here's my scenario. Picture a 4 year old who loved nursery. Now put her in reception class with a teacher who would shout at the 4 year old for forming her letters incorrectly. Then picture the same teacher telling the 4 year old that God is watching her every move and knows her every thought. Now fast forward to the next school morning when the same 4 year old has locked themselves in the bathroom. And that evening when she's cowwring under her duvet. All because of school.

We did everything your told to:spoke to the head, tried reassurance etc. We ended up moving schools. However the damage was done. She couldn't write without panicking. She had 'tummy ache' after 'tummy ache". She was stressed, unhappy and plain miserable. So what would you do at that point? Continue to push your child into a scenario that was destroying her?

You speak of abuse and yet ignore the shit that occurs every single day in schools. The same criticisms you lobby at home education could be aimed at schools too except maybe that doesn't fit with your agenda at the moment?

People home educate because they believe it to be the best option for their children at a particular time. Just as you may send you kids to school it's working out fine. That's cool. Home educators don't actually give a monkeys what you do with your kids, their priority is unbelievably their own children. So before you launch for the proverbial jugular maybe go out and meet some real people. Chat to you actual home educated kids not a twisted media portrayal. Step into their shoes and base your opinions on what you find out for yourself.

Oh and the 4 year old is now a happy 7 who loves writing me stories.. Smile

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 13:59

'And also incredibly patronising.'

It was meant light-heartedly! I was thinking of what Bowlby had to say about learned helplessness; it wasnt really a serious suggestion.

corythatwas · 01/09/2016 14:00

Genuine question: how do you manage those socialising meeting with other HE'd children and the days out if you are unable to drive or cannot afford a car or simply feel uncomfortable basing your life around the combustion engine?

In our neck of the woods, everything HE-orientated seemed geared towards car ownership.

One of the great things of the school from our pov was that it brought so many things, and so many potential friends, together in one place within walking distance. HE'd children were far more geographically spread out, and I don't see how I could have managed to provide dc with much of a choice of friends without driving.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 14:06

HE kids do not only mix with HE kids.. most of my daughter's friends go to school locally. There would be liftshares locally in groups, especially if the person posted about transport probs. Or meets could be arranged in that person's home/garden. There are many ways to hang with people.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 14:07

(if you look on facebook.. you will find a HE group for pretty much every UK area, plus the national groups of course)

MindSweeper · 01/09/2016 14:15

Thankyou for answering Pteranodon, that sounds really good!

Do you find it forces you to socialise more yourself, and do you like this? Or for the more introverted parents is there options where they can drop kids off and go home?