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Guest post: "This September, my daughters won't be going back to school"

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 30/08/2016 12:49

When we first considered home education, I pictured handwriting practice, daily reading tasks, desks and mini-projects. I used to be a teacher; I imagined some kind of co-op, where I'd teach four or five children Stuff I Knew and another parent would include our children in a similar group for Stuff They Knew.

We decided to opt out of the school system after a brief dabble with preschool for Evie, who's now five - her four-year-old sister Clara won't be starting school this September either. Society can sometimes laugh, with varying degrees of mirth, about the lack of fun and creativity in schools. But given the government push for testing and an ever-narrowing curriculum, we stopped laughing and just felt a bit sad. We decided that home educating would suit our family better.

Of course, we had early worries about doing the right thing for the kids; qualifications; making friends; the embarrassment of telling people.

Although I'd initially envisioned a kind of school at home, my children don't learn that way; in fact, few of us learn that way. It's how schools work because there are 30 children in each group with one adult, and that's hard to manage. It's what has always been done.

We're usually wet or muddy or covered in ice cream or - on good days - all three. Some days I'm Queen Elizabeth I at Hampton Court Palace (but a nicer one at Evie's instruction, because our ginger queen wasn't known for her benevolence) and the girls are my daughters (but secret, illegitimate daughters, because she didn't have any really). Other days we might go back to check on some tadpoles at the park. The girls are enthusiastic explorers and biologists. I'm a rather repetitive and slightly irritating Protector of the Tadpoles. No tadpoles have been harmed, but many have been stroked.

I always knew that these kinds of activities were legitimate ways of learning, but surely you'd also need lessons, or some form of structured teaching. I had read a bit about unschooling but I wasn't really convinced. The essence is that you live with your children and allow them to live: offer lots of opportunities and resources, and allow the children to choose how they spend their time. Be supportive and talk to them. It's the parenting that most of us did when our children were babies and toddlers. They learnt to talk and walk, and recognise individuals, they knew their colours and how to count, and how to stack things, and what would make them feel better if they got hurt. As I started to look for and find learning in ways that don't look like school, this way of educating, and living, made the most sense to me.

We're lucky these days that lots of unschooled kids have grown up and been to university; they're getting good jobs and living satisfying lives without ever having faced the stress of year 6 SATs or last minute Sunday night homework or bullying.

So we're unschoolers. We don't do it in exactly the same way as anybody else, because everyone has their own set of interests and learns in different ways. We go on all sorts of trips organised by home educating parents - to museums and nature reserves and sites of historical interest - and a whole lot of unorganised trips to parks and IKEA and the swimming pool. We read lots of books and go to the library to get more. We play with toys. We watch a lot of Netflix and YouTube and are currently in a phase of playing an abundance of Kirby's Epic Yarn on the Wii.

We spend time with lovely friends and travel around the country to see family. We never take tests; we're never limited by a curriculum; we don't sit if we want to run, nor do we run when we need to sit.

I don't worry about the same things any more, which luckily leaves me time to worry about the mess, or the sibling squabbles or what we'll have for tea instead. I know this is the right choice for us. If they need qualifications there are plenty of ways to get them; they have lots of friends of all ages; and I'm not at all embarrassed to tell people that we're not on holiday, actually, we home educate.

OP posts:
Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 12:02

I see nothing mentioned here which can only be provided by schools and much that is commonplace for home educated children.

Fair enough. I guess the HEers that I have encountered aren't typical then. Though I can't really see guides or woodcraft folk being able to compensate for what you miss out on in school - surely these are just complementary extras for most people.

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 12:04

'Yes, kids who do A-levels and GCSEs very early tend to be home educated. I don't think that really tells us anything other than the fact that the parents who choose to home educate probably have a different set of values from those who choose to send their kids to school.'

Could you tell us what grounds you have for believing this? Some children who take examinations early are home educated, others are at school and their parents arrange for the GCSEs to be taken privately. Why on Earth do you think that this is more common among home educated children? Presumably you base this assertion upon evidence and are not merely repeating a rumour rsomething?

drspouse · 01/09/2016 12:05

Ideology does not enter into it.

Gosh, lack of self knowledge there much?

Yes, kids who do A-levels and GCSEs very early tend to be home educated. I don't think that really tells us anything other than the fact that the parents who choose to home educate probably have a different set of values from those who choose to send their kids to school.

It does also tell us that the parents who choose to home educate have children who are in some cases capable of achieving academic results earlier than would otherwise be possible. These facts may well be linked (parent feels resentful they weren't allowed to do their GCSEs early and frankly has never got over this resentful feeling, child is also bright due to both nature and nurture, parent has small amount of wish fulfilment in living through their child and wanting them to do their GCSEs early).

I was resentful that I wasn't allowed to do my GCSE Maths early. However, I am now in my 40s and have got over this.

gilly points are moot not mute. Hopefully you'll remember that when you're teaching your DC spelling...

Back to the "why do we need SWs" point.
We need SWs (I would not say allocated one per Home Ed family but more oversight than is presently available) because it is perfectly possible to not bother providing resources/actually do any education, and call it unschooling.

As I say though I have experienced lots of lovely home edders (mostly not dogmatic like several on this thread, and mostly not critical of those sending their children to school either!), those who see themselves as "radical unschoolers" and to whom any kind of structure or planning is anathema can easily let their children fall into educational neglect.

Coupled with unparenting (children will decide what they need to eat/when they need to go to bed/they don't need to go to the doctor/dentist/have new clothes unless they specifically ask) means physical and emotional neglect is also much easier to overlook than in children who have a childcare professional seeing them daily.

MindSweeper · 01/09/2016 12:06

HEers, how do you make up for the socialisation aspect? I know some learning at school isn't done in the classroom, it's done via socialisation, skills that we take for granted really.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 12:06

My decision to NOT send my child to school is not necessarily a criticism of your decision to do so.

Perhaps not, but when there are posters on here telling us that those of us who send our kids to school are actually "shirking" our responsibilities, you can hardly be surprised when people feel that some HEers have rather a superiority complex!

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 12:06

My decision to NOT send my child to school is not necessarily a criticism of your decision to do so.

Perhaps not, but when there are posters on here telling us that those of us who send our kids to school are actually "shirking" our responsibilities, you can hardly be surprised when people feel that some HEers have rather a superiority complex!

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 12:08

'Though I can't really see guides or woodcraft folk being able to compensate for what you miss out on in school - surely these are just complementary extras for most people.'

I'm sure that you know about HE groups, where children hang out with each other? I don't doubt for a moment that you might have met some weird and dysfunctional children who did not go to school. As somebody who works in an FE college, I can assure you that I meet a huge number of strange and anti-social young people. Almost without exception, these have attended school for over a decade. I don't feel that I can blame their educational setting for the way they turned out, any more than we can do so with home education.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 12:10

"Yes, kids who do A-levels and GCSEs very early tend to be home educated. I don't think that really tells us anything other than the fact that the parents who choose to home educate probably have a different set of values from those who choose to send their kids to school.

My dd is very academic, and I've no doubt I could have hot-housed her to do various exams at a very precocious age, but what would be the point?"

I know all of the people in these articles and none were hothoused.

melonribena · 01/09/2016 12:11

Broken biscuit, I completely agree with your last post. I am a teacher and am sending my 4 year old to school. I want him to have individual experiences and learn in different ways to the way I can teach him.

I am not outsourcing his education or failing to take responsibility for it, I just realise my own limitations and want him to have a vast array of experiences and qualified people to support his education.

I will also support his learning at home and there are many hours outside school time in which to do this.

I respect anyone who chooses to he, what I don't agree with is people stating that we are somehow failing our children by sending them to school. This is offensive and really takes away from any valid points that might have been made.

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 12:12

'HEers, how do you make up for the socialisation aspect? I know some learning at school isn't done in the classroom, it's done via socialisation, skills that we take for granted really.'

Ther only places where I have known squads of thirty people to be marched from place to place, expected to address their superiors as 'Sir' and forbidden to use the lavatory without permission are prisons and the army. You will forgive my observing that such conditions are not really my idea of good socialisation! To you call your boss 'Sir'? Do you ahve to ask permission at work if you wish to empty your bladder? School is not a good place to learn about socialisation.

ImYourProlapse · 01/09/2016 12:12

It's very strange to see parents, who advocate school as being the best possible way to educate a child, who are, as a result of that education, not confident in heir ability to teach their own children what they have learned. That's not a very good advertisement for school, is it?

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 12:13

I'm sure that you know about HE groups, where children hang out with each other

Yes, I have heard of these. However, I don't know how often they meet.

If the kids are getting together daily for extended periods of time, to learn together and socialise together, then I agree that they probably won't miss out. If contact is less regular, then I'm not so sure.

Re HE kids doing exams early - it's just a perception based on the stories that I see in the media. I have no statistical evidence. It's entirely possible that school educated kids do just as many exams at an early age. Perhaps they just don't seek as much media attention for it. Wink

user1471734618 · 01/09/2016 12:14

I agree Simon.
ONly at school would someone be able to follow you round for weeks shouting abuse at you and then get patted on the head by the teacher when you finally respond.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 12:14

"gilly points are moot not mute. Hopefully you'll remember that when you're teaching your DC spelling..."

ah yes... that old game of picking on typos or spellchecker when you have nothing else to add ;)

Simon is a smart cookie and an author. I doubt that your comments will affect him much and his daughter seems to have done ok..

ImYourProlapse · 01/09/2016 12:16

More than O.K, in fact.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 12:17

It's very strange to see parents, who advocate school as being the best possible way to educate a child, who are, as a result of that education, not confident in heir ability to teach their own children what they have learned. That's not a very good advertisement for school, is it?

I disagree completely. I'd say that self awareness and a robust understanding of one's own strengths and weaknesses is a very important outcome of a good education.

I know that lots of HEers aren't so arrogant as to assume that they can teach their kids everything themselves, and they therefore find ways of exposing their kids to different teachers, experts and influences.

The few who are confident that they can teach everything themselves are really quite worrying, and I feel desperately sorry for their kids.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 12:17

"As I say though I have experienced lots of lovely home edders (mostly not dogmatic like several on this thread, and mostly not critical of those sending their children to school either!), those who see themselves as "radical unschoolers" and to whom any kind of structure or planning is anathema can easily let their children fall into educational neglect."

I am a radical Unschooler. My child is far from neglected and due to being reported by a helpful council bod... our education was described as "excellent" and they were impressed with her. Please stop propagating unhelpful and tedious stereotypes...

Do you even know what RU is?

"Coupled with unparenting (children will decide what they need to eat/when they need to go to bed/they don't need to go to the doctor/dentist/have new clothes unless they specifically ask) means physical and emotional neglect is also much easier to overlook than in children who have a childcare professional seeing them daily."

Mine has always decided when to go to bed and what to eat. She goes to bed at 9.30-10pm most nights and has a very varied diet. You know little about how this actually works do you.....?

Fulltimemummy85 · 01/09/2016 12:19

"It is a shocking indictment of modern society that those who choose to care for and educate their own children are viewed as dangerous or maladjusted cranks".

Glad to say I care for my child, how rude to say that people who choose to send their child to school do not "care". If your child has not been to school how are you such an expert?

SamMN · 01/09/2016 12:21

"Glad to say I care for my child, how rude to say that people who choose to send their child to school do not "care". If your child has not been to school how are you such an expert?"

School has failed some of you on the ability to comprehend comments.. that is not what was said.

drspouse · 01/09/2016 12:22

It's very strange to see parents, who advocate school as being the best possible way to educate a child, who are, as a result of that education, not confident in heir ability to teach their own children what they have learned. That's not a very good advertisement for school, is it?

I didn't learn what I learned at school in order to teach it. I learned it in order to use it. At school, they didn't teach you the best methods for helping someone with a much lower level of understanding to grasp concepts.

At school, and later university, I learned skills that have been helpful to me in my career. My career is not as a teacher of children (most people who are senior/professional train junior employees to do their job so it would be wrong to say my career involves no teaching at all. But teaching adults on the job is rather different, and of course much more specialist. Adults also have a much clearer idea of what they do and do not grasp so are much better at monitoring their own learning and making it clear to their trainers where they need help).

If I had trained as a teacher of children I'd have learned how to help children understand a variety of things and I would also have kept up my knowledge both of the subject(s) I taught and of how to teach in general. My school days were also quite some time ago!

It displays a huge lack of self-knowledge I'd say to think just because you know something you can teach it (and if you can't, it's because you weren't taught it properly in the first place).

pentomino · 01/09/2016 12:27

I am so depressed to see so many people who clearly care a lot about their children attacking each other in such a horrible way. Schools work well for many children, for some they don't work. Home Education works in a totally different way, we don't teach the way it is done in school but children do learn. When you are used to learning looking like one thing it is really hard to see that it could work another way, most HEders struggle with this at first too and it is usually the children that show us they are learning better when we don't actively teach them. That does not mean that we don't introduce them to things, support them in their learning and much more we do.

I know teachers train for a long time, work hard and do their best by the children in their school. We're not dismissing your efforts or your achievements, but to home educate you do not need the same skill set because it works in such a different way. Here is a video interview with someone who has written a PHD about how children learn informally.

Many points on this thread claim that HE children will grow up without qualifications or be unable to succeed in the adult world, or that if their parents don't have x qualification how can their children surpass it. Here is a post about what grown up unschoolers do. www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201406/survey-grown-unschoolers-i-overview-findings

Here is a fabulous article that makes the case for how a child can learn more maths when you teach less of it. www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201003/when-less-is-more-the-case-teaching-less-math-in-school

SamMN · 01/09/2016 12:27

"It displays a huge lack of self-knowledge I'd say to think just because you know something you can teach it (and if you can't, it's because you weren't taught it properly in the first place)."

Well hundreds and hundreds of home edders seem to manage it ok... so it cannot be that hard...

SamMN · 01/09/2016 12:28

Great links pento but nobody seems to be actually looking at links. A bun fight is more interesting :(

drspouse · 01/09/2016 12:30

Sam I do indeed know what radical unschooling is. Likewise "child led parenting" I have experienced a family who supposedly were doing this but if you read my posts upthread you'll see how it works out in practice. I have not talked upthread about how the parenting aspects have worked out but they have tended to lead to massively overtired toddlers and older children anxious about going to bed (because the answer to "I don't want to go to bed" is not "let's work out why not and see how we can make it less scary" but "OK don't then", battles over food (children having one idea of what they want to eat and parents having prepared something else) or an unhealthily restricted diet, outgrown clothes and shoes continuing to be worn (though that aspect seems to be more due to not bothering to buy new ones/check sizes than much to do with unparenting), minor health problems not checked (child does not complain of them because they are, well, a child) and mental health problems dismissed (because child is a child and cannot really put the problems into words).

Several of these would have been spotted by professionals at school. Of course, the parents listening to the professionals wouldn't necessarily have happened either.

And I've had my ear bent plenty about how fabulous this philosophy is, thanks very much, so I do know a lot about the theory.

Again, I know lots of lovely home edders who don't tell me I'm doing it all wrong - but many of those on this thread remind me of my experience with this particular unschooling family.

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 12:30

' (parent feels resentful they weren't allowed to do their GCSEs early and frankly has never got over this resentful feeling, child is also bright due to both nature and nurture, parent has small amount of wish fulfilment in living through their child and wanting them to do their GCSEs early).'

Cod psychology alert!! There is not a scrap of evidence that home educated children tend to take GCSEs any earlier than those at school. The assumption by the person who wrote the guff quoted above is presumably that if such nonsense if repeated often enough, people might come to believe that it is true.