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Guest post: "This September, my daughters won't be going back to school"

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MumsnetGuestPosts · 30/08/2016 12:49

When we first considered home education, I pictured handwriting practice, daily reading tasks, desks and mini-projects. I used to be a teacher; I imagined some kind of co-op, where I'd teach four or five children Stuff I Knew and another parent would include our children in a similar group for Stuff They Knew.

We decided to opt out of the school system after a brief dabble with preschool for Evie, who's now five - her four-year-old sister Clara won't be starting school this September either. Society can sometimes laugh, with varying degrees of mirth, about the lack of fun and creativity in schools. But given the government push for testing and an ever-narrowing curriculum, we stopped laughing and just felt a bit sad. We decided that home educating would suit our family better.

Of course, we had early worries about doing the right thing for the kids; qualifications; making friends; the embarrassment of telling people.

Although I'd initially envisioned a kind of school at home, my children don't learn that way; in fact, few of us learn that way. It's how schools work because there are 30 children in each group with one adult, and that's hard to manage. It's what has always been done.

We're usually wet or muddy or covered in ice cream or - on good days - all three. Some days I'm Queen Elizabeth I at Hampton Court Palace (but a nicer one at Evie's instruction, because our ginger queen wasn't known for her benevolence) and the girls are my daughters (but secret, illegitimate daughters, because she didn't have any really). Other days we might go back to check on some tadpoles at the park. The girls are enthusiastic explorers and biologists. I'm a rather repetitive and slightly irritating Protector of the Tadpoles. No tadpoles have been harmed, but many have been stroked.

I always knew that these kinds of activities were legitimate ways of learning, but surely you'd also need lessons, or some form of structured teaching. I had read a bit about unschooling but I wasn't really convinced. The essence is that you live with your children and allow them to live: offer lots of opportunities and resources, and allow the children to choose how they spend their time. Be supportive and talk to them. It's the parenting that most of us did when our children were babies and toddlers. They learnt to talk and walk, and recognise individuals, they knew their colours and how to count, and how to stack things, and what would make them feel better if they got hurt. As I started to look for and find learning in ways that don't look like school, this way of educating, and living, made the most sense to me.

We're lucky these days that lots of unschooled kids have grown up and been to university; they're getting good jobs and living satisfying lives without ever having faced the stress of year 6 SATs or last minute Sunday night homework or bullying.

So we're unschoolers. We don't do it in exactly the same way as anybody else, because everyone has their own set of interests and learns in different ways. We go on all sorts of trips organised by home educating parents - to museums and nature reserves and sites of historical interest - and a whole lot of unorganised trips to parks and IKEA and the swimming pool. We read lots of books and go to the library to get more. We play with toys. We watch a lot of Netflix and YouTube and are currently in a phase of playing an abundance of Kirby's Epic Yarn on the Wii.

We spend time with lovely friends and travel around the country to see family. We never take tests; we're never limited by a curriculum; we don't sit if we want to run, nor do we run when we need to sit.

I don't worry about the same things any more, which luckily leaves me time to worry about the mess, or the sibling squabbles or what we'll have for tea instead. I know this is the right choice for us. If they need qualifications there are plenty of ways to get them; they have lots of friends of all ages; and I'm not at all embarrassed to tell people that we're not on holiday, actually, we home educate.

OP posts:
PumpkinPie9 · 01/09/2016 08:48

Mrs Lupo
Yet others are frankly mentally unwell and have delusional beliefs that are incompatible with exposing their DCs to the outside world, e.g. extreme religious beliefs, extreme ideas about gender roles, or one or both parents is controlling and/or abusive and home edding is a way of isolating children and/or spouse from agencies who can help them.

Just checking, but did you report the suspected abuse to the relevant agencies?

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 08:54

I think the whole notion of home schooling sounds absolutely idyllic in terms of lifestyle. No rushing around to fit in with the school day, no limitations about when you can go on holiday. Lots of time to spend together, lots of time to pursue different interests. It would suit me down to the ground.

Unfortunately, though, while it might make for an idyllic childhood, I'm far from convinced that it offers the best education or a great preparation for adult life. Of course, I can only base my judgements on what I have personally observed, but I work with young people and I've encountered a few ex-HE'd young adults over the years. Generally speaking, they have been ok from an academic point of view but they have struggled with structure they have lacked resilience. Of course, it's possible that the reason they have been home schooled is precisely because they struggle with structure and lack resilience, but it does not appear that home education has addressed those issues for them in any way.

I'm also sceptical about the quality of friendships enjoyed by HE'd children. My dd has a friend through one of her extra-curricular activities who is HE'd. Her mum is positively evangelical about the benefits of HE and repeatedly makes comments about how many opportunities there are to socialise outside school and how lovely it is that our daughters are such close friends. Thing is, the child is a lovely kid and my dd likes her, is happy to have her over to our house etc, but the friendship she has with this girl is nothing like the close friendships that she has with some of her school friends. At school, they have so many shared experiences that help them bond. I don't see those opportunities for the kids I know who are HE'd.

Of course, some people choose to HE because school doesn't work for their kids in terms of social interaction, and I understand that, for those kids who have struggled with friendships in mainstream schools, perhaps the social interaction offered by HE is a better option. For my own dd, though, I think school offers more.

brasty · 01/09/2016 09:12

I do think in primary school HE is fairly straightforward. I fail to see in secondary school how working from a textbook is better than being able to discuss a subject with others.
I feel the same about university versus the OU. I remember at university sitting up till 1am discussing subjects we were studying with other students. A textbook can not replicate that.

BoffinMum · 01/09/2016 09:17

I think there are lessons to be learned about being out of your comfort zone as well. Most people would give up maths and science early on given the chance. As they permeate so many jobs now it's a dangerous choice.

Roseformeplease · 01/09/2016 09:26

Teachers training consists of learning how to attempt to educate en masse, a glorified version of herding cattle, whilst recording results. There's probably a sub on understanding how to work a printer in order to print someone else's worksheets from TES.

This is hilarious. And this is from someone who feels that they have the breadth of knowledge and intellect to replace a school.

Roseformeplease · 01/09/2016 09:27

Teachers cut and pasted from original post.

Should either be Teacher training or teachers' training.

Although, punctuation aside, it is the breathtaking ignorance that is of most concern.

MrsLupo · 01/09/2016 09:36

Pumpkin Yes, obviously. And I know my way around the child protection system, but the fact is that the resources aren't there for social services to monitor home educated kids. As readers of this thread are finding there is also a narrative around home education in which parents readily paint themselves as misunderstood and victimised, which creates an impossible gradient against which social workers have to work. I am thinking with a heavy heart of a particular family as I write this, and I feel I did all I could while staying on the right side of the law myself.

I wish the home edders would address this point of regulation, though. Home educated children are potentially incredibly vulnerable. Leaving aside florid abuse, which I accept is at the less common end of the spectrum, there are still genuine issues around cultural breadth and educational depth. It is all very well to speak about feelings of confidence that you can provide a decent education for your child. But what if you are wrong? I was interested in the example a pp gave of a child who had had to fight for his right to a school education via social services. How many children would know they could do that or how to go about it? How many would have the courage to take their parents on in that way, presumably in the face of a complete refusal to acknowledge their child's desire to go to school? I would think such a path is actually quite similar emotionally for children to reporting abuse.

Even if all the home educating parents on this thread are doing a bang-up job, it's surely not much of a stretch to see that that isn't going to be true in all cases. If home education really is all about a child-centred/child-led approach, I really don't think it's too much to ask that parents put their money where their mouth is and engage with the statutory authorities in such a way as to place their child's needs and desires ahead of their own. At the very least, I think that once a child is registered as home educated they should be appointed their own social worker, who can act as their advocate if necessary.

Houseconfusion · 01/09/2016 10:10

Isn't this amazing - in so many other walks of life a "feeling of confidence" won't cut it. To be a doctor a teacher a lawyer any or most jobs with children and other vulnerable human beings - "I feel I am confident enough" isn't on its own a qualification.

But somehow when it comes to educating children - vulnerable people I may add- suddenly a feeling of confidence and an absence of any requisite qualification is just fine to "un school". And if you aren't to accept that "I feel confident" is enough on its own you are attacking and maligning those who uhm think beyond boxes.

This ties in to the regulation point and is fantastically alarming.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 10:13

There have been a handful of interesting posts on this thread from adults who were HE'd for some or all of their childhood - one positive, who is now HEing herself, and 3 negative. It's interesting to me that none of the current HEers have shown any interest in these posts.

I think if I were HEing, I'd be eager to learn from the experiences of those who did not find it effective or conducive to a happy adult life. The silence in response to these posts is deafening.

FireSquirrel · 01/09/2016 10:36

The attribution bias in this thread is shocking. If a home ed child didint thrive either academically or socially that's put down to the fact that they were home educated. If they did thrive that's apparently in spite of home ed.

A handful of people speak negatively about their experience being home edded and and yet there are a huge number of people who have a negative experience of school and nothing is being said about that.

Everyone claims to know an odd or weird or strange home ed kid which is apparently attributed to their being home educated, yet plenty of school kids are odd or different or don't fit in (i should know, i was one of them) and that's not put down to their being in school.

Home edders are being accused of ignoring those with negative experience of home ed, yet home edders who report that their children are thriving, happy and achieving academically are also being ignored.

simonwebbstache · 01/09/2016 10:39

"I started off fairly neutral about HE but I am now getting pretty alarmed. How can you be confident about that? When a lot of people need to buy in tutoring for the tough stuff?

Without high level input in certain areas your child's education is going to be just a reflection of your own, with concomitant misconceptions and flaws and gaps.

No amount of enthusiasm for lifelong learning can compensate for this, seriously."

Not everybody "buys in" tutoring. Many do it in various ways to get a better knowledge and to skill share. Some HE kids will go to college if they wish to and do GCSEs and others will do them online. You sound very anti- home ed so of course you will not see the good bits :)

You need to speak to some of those with older kids so that you can assess outcomes... or read some of the studies mentioned in here. maybe then you will believe that HE kids can do pretty damn well at their chosen careers. There is no convincing naysayers. And either way it is not relevant really, because HE is a legal choice and education is a parental responsibility.

"Without high level input in certain areas your child's education is going to be just a reflection of your own, with concomitant misconceptions and flaws and gaps."

This is not the case at all. Most of us were schooled and most home edders do not follow the national curriculum, so how can this even be the case?

simonwebbstache · 01/09/2016 10:44

"brasty Thu 01-Sep-16 09:12:29
I do think in primary school HE is fairly straightforward. I fail to see in secondary school how working from a textbook is better than being able to discuss a subject with others.
I feel the same about university versus the OU. I remember at university sitting up till 1am discussing subjects we were studying with other students. A textbook can not replicate that."

Nobody seems to read what is written on here by Home Edders. Joolz for example could address that one (again). Our kids DO discuss ideas and texts with others!

simonwebbstache · 01/09/2016 10:46

"MrsLupo Thu 01-Sep-16 09:36:35
Pumpkin Yes, obviously. And I know my way around the child protection system, but the fact is that the resources aren't there for social services to monitor home educated kids"

It is not the job of SS to monitor HE kids. Sorry. And you should know this if you "know your way around the CP system". There is no duty to monitor... UNLESS there is evidence that an appropriate education is not taking place.

Education should not be conflated with welfare. The systems are already in place for kids who are needing SS.

Brokenbiscuit · 01/09/2016 10:48

A handful of people speak negatively about their experience being home edded and and yet there are a huge number of people who have a negative experience of school and nothing is being said about that.

Nothing is being said about negative experiences of school because that's not what this thread is about.

Away from this thread, schools are constantly examining, reflecting and learning from experience, striving to improve. For example, the way my dd's primary school supported her classmate with ASD was a world away from how things were dealt with when I was at school. Likewise, my dd's recent transition to secondary school has been managed in a completely different way because schools have learnt from what did and didn't go well for previous generations.

Perhaps HEers do this as well, but I rarely see it on these boards. There are rather a lot of smug, self-congratulatory posts about how marvellous it all is, but there seems to be very little engagement with perspectives that are less positive.

simonwebbstache · 01/09/2016 10:49

"Even if all the home educating parents on this thread are doing a bang-up job, it's surely not much of a stretch to see that that isn't going to be true in all cases."

Ah,.. a bit like some schools then :( Have you seen the studies on UK standards compared to the rest of Europe?

" If home education really is all about a child-centred/child-led approach, I really don't think it's too much to ask that parents put their money where their mouth is and engage with the statutory authorities in such a way as to place their child's needs and desires ahead of their own. At the very least, I think that once a child is registered as home educated they should be appointed their own social worker, who can act as their advocate if necessary."

We should have a social worker? What on earth for? You are ridiculous. I really worry if you are still "involved in CP". Good God. Save your "worry" for kids being abused.

Cagliostro · 01/09/2016 10:57

I have to admit, when we took the DCs out of school last year, the person I was most nervous about telling was my best friend, a teacher (reception class). But she has been incredibly supportive. She loves hearing about what the DCs are doing, we share ideas and in particular she has been really interested in the odd paths our learning takes when questions arise, following links to different topics etc. She doesn't usually get time or freedom to do that kind of stuff spontaneously in the classroom. She's the most passionate teacher I've ever known, but even she is getting disillusioned with all the bureaucracy and pressure and targets and paperwork etc.

I just think live and let live TBH. My DCs went to school, then they stopped because they were unhappy. I don't regret sending them to school in the first place. I don't look down on other people who keep their DCs in school just because we've ended up on a different path.

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 11:01

I might mention that my daughter did not attend school for a single day. She read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford from 2011 to 2014 and then did a Master's there from 2014 to last year. This month, she begins her PhD at UCL. To suggest that home education produces only strange people, welfare concerns or educational failures is absurd.

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 11:03

Here is a news article about a young woman who never went to school;

www.news.com.au/world/assange-protest-organiser-faces-taunts/story-fndir2ev-1226551693931

JoolzyBabe · 01/09/2016 11:04

What all the self-righteous 'HEers need monitoring' brigade seem to overlook is that children are frequently left behind, neglected and abused while attending schools. Almost every week we read in the press of teenage girls being groomed by teachers, or a child harming themselves because of bullying. Being 'in the system' did not help safeguard these kids. Even if your child says s/he is happy at school, this may not be the case. What you may not know is that the most common response my child gets from your child when she says she's HE is a sad shake of the head and "I wish I didn't have to go to school." As for academia: in some areas of the country, over 60% of children fail to pass Maths and English GCSE - despite spending 11 years in the system. All over the UK, children are raised on junk food, but we don't send government officials into people's homes to check they are giving their kids a healthy diet. Try to think outside the box a little before you criticise HE. I know school didn't train you to do that, but I bet you can do it if you really try.

SamMN · 01/09/2016 11:06

Yes, I suggest that schools get their own houses in order first....

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 11:06

Here is my daughter getting a bunch of top GCSEs without attending school. This is often done by home educated young people. Home education is no bar to academic achievement;

www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/4569389.LOUGHTON__Home_educated_girl_gets_eight_A_s/

Cagliostro · 01/09/2016 11:11

We have had social services help before due to my health, and we had a family support worker during our first year of home ed (we'd been referred by school due to DS' problems and my health, but the appointment didn't come up until after he'd left). They've all been happy with what we're doing. We also had CAMHS appointments due to DD's anxiety but we were soon discharged as DD had improved so dramatically after leaving school.

I know some home ed families who refuse any meetings with the LEA etc but most of us happily invite them in. Nothing to hide!

SimonWebb · 01/09/2016 11:14

Those who have so much to say about home education might care to look at their local schools. I would not trust some of those places look after my cat; never mind my child! We are responsible, both legally and morally, for our own children. If some parents wish to off-load this task onto the state, then I wish them luck. Don't start critcising those of us who refuse to shirk our responsibilities in this way though.

Iggi999 · 01/09/2016 11:16

HEders need monitoring.
Schools need monitoring.

Neither needs to be with an iron fist, but there has to be checks that neither school nor parent is failing the child.
I don't see that this should be hard for either group to accept.

Iggi999 · 01/09/2016 11:17

Simon you sound like an eejit and are doing your "cause" no favours by speaking like that.