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Guest post: "I'd never raise my children as anything but vegan"

347 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 15/08/2016 10:03

I have been vegan for almost nine years. My four-year-old daughter has eaten a plant-based diet since birth (yes, breast milk is vegan) and my second baby, due shortly, will be joining her. It was never something we questioned. We knew that children could grow up strong and healthy on a vegan diet, so why would we introduce foods we wouldn't eat ourselves? My grandma thinks it's a shame she's never tasted a pork sausage, but other than that our choice hasn't attracted much criticism.

Last week, however, an Italian politician proposed a law that would allow the state to prosecute parents who choose to raise their children vegan. The proposed law has come about after a number of high-profile cases of severe malnourishment as a result of parents imposing inadequate vegan diets, and has opened up a debate about whether it's ok to raise children on a vegan diet.

A vegan diet needn't be restrictive. While veganism means avoiding animal products - cheese, meat, gelatine, to name but a few - a rich and varied diet is easily achievable. My daughter eats fruits and vegetables, lentils, tofu, grains, beans and nuts, cereals fortified with vitamins and she also takes a daily multivitamin specially formulated for vegan children. However, she can also hold her own when it comes to chocolate, chips, ice cream and all the other junk foods four-year-olds love to eat. I don’t want her to miss out, so I plan ahead for birthday parties or nursery celebrations so she can have sweets and cake with the rest of the children. She might grow up and decide she doesn't want to be vegan any more, but I don't want that to be because she felt left out growing up.

The NHS says that a vegan diet is fine for babies and children as long as it includes all of the necessary vitamins and minerals. The vegan parents I know are clued up when it comes to nutrition. I think being vegan actually encourages parents to be more critical of their family's diet than they may otherwise be - and that can only be a good thing.

Perhaps, instead of looking to prosecute vegan parents, it would be better for Italy to introduce measures to educate all parents about the importance of a varied diet in childhood. Italy has one of the highest rates of childhood obesity in the world - it’s clear that there's a pervasive lack of understanding about nutrition. Rather than vilifying all vegan parents for the mistakes of a few, resources would be better used educating people about how to achieve a healthy diet - whether this includes animal products or not.

I went vegan after years of being vegetarian. I found out about the cruelty involved in the dairy industry and decided to take the next step to reduce animal suffering. For me, veganism has always been about animal exploitation. The health and environmental benefits of the lifestyle are a bonus, but they're not the reason I choose to be vegan. I am raising my daughter to consider the needs of other people and animals when making decisions. She may not always be vegan. She might grow up and decide she loves beef burgers. I have no idea what the future holds, just like other parents don't know if their children will grow up to embrace the family's love of the outdoors, jazz music or the Labour Party. All I can do is try to teach her compassion now and hope that it sticks. And if it doesn't? Well, she's my daughter and I will love her unconditionally, no matter what.

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SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 11:59

I haave, but since I'm pure evil and eat children, I don't know how much my post counts.

To all the veggies and vegans who say people overreact: read this 'person's' comments. She actually thinks cows dying is more serious.

TBH This makes me want to just give up and buy cheap meat, and stop giving a shit. Why should I care when I'm told my own murdered family matters less than a bloody cow?

Veganmumm · 21/08/2016 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 12:01

Oh, and I am evil, my children are to be pitied and I eat babies.

Where are the vegans saying this deeply unbalanced woman doesn't represent them?

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 12:02

That's one more 'rotting corpse' on your conscious.

For every one of your unbalanced posts, I'll add a 'rotting corpse' to my DC's menu.

And encourage them to eat more.

derxa · 21/08/2016 12:07

I have no doubt this thread will be deleted but Veganmumm I'm really concerned for your mental health. I'm interested in your imagery of a lamb.
No doubt you are trying to paint the picture of a tiny newborn lamb.
Have you actually been in the countryside? On a farm? To see how lambs actually live?
Also you say you have pets. Why?

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 12:11

I think we'll have a roast tonight. To make myself feel better.

LyndaNotLinda · 21/08/2016 12:13

Insisting a carnivorous animal eats a vegan diet to fit with your own imposed moral code is cruel. And you have to give it supplements to ensure it doesn't die from lack of taurine.

How ironic.

SpeakNoWords · 21/08/2016 12:15

Why would someone else's insane and offensive posts make you change your own behaviour? Veganmum is an offensive idiot, she's not representative of every vegan or vegetarian. Report, ignore and carry on as you do normally, surely, rather than let her affect you.

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 12:25

Speak because she told me my grandparents murder didn't matter, (especially in conjunction with the 'new holocaust,' which is much more serious...) and I was a shame to them. The other shit e.g. eating children was just insane, but I'm human and yes, what she said about my family's loss and pain hurt. MNHQ has banned the cunt and sent me a lovely email, in which I apologised for losing my temper.

Obviously I wouldn't buy poor quality meat because of one internet quack. She got to me. Having someone tell you those sorts of things about murdered family member's isn't easy to hear. All in all, I think I reacted well, considering.

And obviously I'll still make my all time favourite chilli - Which is vegan!

Buddhistlove · 21/08/2016 12:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 12:31

Buddhist if you cannot see the things that thing said as cruel well.. I don't even need to finish the sentence.

As for this? After all i can imagine hiw horric it must be for a mother to eat meat during pregnancy and give birth to a disabeked child and then fund out about BSG . How awful that must be

I'm not even bothering. I have a severely disabled child. I'm not even reporting you, because even after what that thing said about mu murdered family, I was still tutted at for being hurt.

If MNHQ want to step up, they will. If not? Every opinion I ever argued vegans didn't hold has been shaken, and I'll be a lot less friendly in the future, especially since now I know slaughtered meat for food is comparable with murdered family members, AND it's a mother's fault if her DC is disabled.

ElphabaTheGreen · 21/08/2016 12:32

Buddhist

I haven't seen any vegans being attacked by internet trolls. I've seen somebody making outrageously offensive statements being pulled up on them in the strongest possible way, and rightly so.

I avoid telling people I'm vegetarian because of people like Veganmum. They think we're all like that.

SpeakNoWords · 21/08/2016 12:33

The deleted messages were more offensive than I could have imagined, wow. Sorry you had such horrendous abuse.

And I see that the thread has attracted another one...

SpeakNoWords · 21/08/2016 12:41

And I've reported Buddhist too. People who make such ridiculous comments don't speak for me (as a vegetarian who is moving toward being vegan).

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 12:42

Thank you ladies.

As veggies/vegans this is probably a naive question but I feel I now need to ask: How do I know whether someone thinks those sorts of things about my family? Whether it's 'oh yeah, they died BUT THE COWS' or 'yeah, your DS1 is disabled but you eat meat, so...'

I feel very paranoid now, whereas I've always been very defensive and supportive. Now all that's going to be able to go through my head is that the person thinks my family 'deserve' murder and disability.

Veggiebaby · 21/08/2016 12:46

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SpeakNoWords · 21/08/2016 12:53

Special I think that anyone you know who interacts normally with other adults won't be secretly thinking such ridiculous things. People with such offensive views would exhibit other behaviour that would indicate their ridiculousness, or like "Veganmum", it would become apparent after a brief conversation - they'd be unable/unwilling to hide it I think.

I'm so sorry that what should have been a respectful discussion about diet and choice has descended to this level and upset you.

DawnMumsnet · 21/08/2016 12:55

@SpeakNoWords

The deleted messages were more offensive than I could have imagined, wow. Sorry you had such horrendous abuse.

And I see that the thread has attracted another one...

Just echoing these sentiments. We're so sorry for the delay in removing the horribly offensive posts on this thread. We have of course banned the poster concerned (and have just banned another one too) and have flagged this to our Bloggers team to see how they'd like to proceed.

Huge apologies again - we know that this issue is a highly emotive one, but that really doesn't excuse such offensive posts. Flowers

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 12:57

Thank you Speak Flowers You've reminded me of the most important thing: Everyone is different. I don't ever want to be that meat eater who undermines vegan/veggie parents or makes out they're making a poor parenting choice.

I won't let internet weirdos change my values

plus vegan chilli is still the nicest so I'd be a hypocrite Grin

P.S. Glad I didn't see whatever the post before you was! I'm not going to allow extremists to change my views on equality.

Banana99 · 21/08/2016 12:57

^^ good.
I think some vegans (and vegetarians) need to realise what they say is actually having a negative effect on veganism/vegetarians. They seem determined to push people the other way.
Just because you feel passionately about something does not mean other people will feel the same way no matter how much you try. especially by being personal and offensive.

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 12:58

Thank you so much MNHQ - So sorry for my teenagery caps lock tantrums Blush

dizzyfeck · 21/08/2016 13:15

The problem with militant vegans is they are extremists. All extremism is dangerous and often just for the person making the claim to be able to place themselves on a pedastool above others due to some deep insecurity and self esteem issues. They claim they want all animals to live free without being artifically bred, overbred and artificially raised. In the next sentence talk about their pets Confused.
Best not to engage people like that.

SpecialAgentFreyPie · 21/08/2016 13:24

Before I say anything, I feel a real need to say how wonderfully kind MNHQ how been. Even when I attempted to apologise (more than once) for swearing, raving and Caps Locking, they insisted my feelings were totally justified and no matter what I said, blamed themselves for not deleting and banning users sooner due to being busy. I just think the kindness they showed me deserved me telling someone! Smile Flowers to MNHQ

I feel no one is better to ask this than a veggie or vegan, so if you'd answer I'd really appreciate it! Smile

Say humans were not evolved to eat meat, or we all woke up tomorrow and it was not suitable for us. What is the solution to happen to livestock? I say livestock because I assume most people want their beloved pets, but I've always wondered, what is the idea that what will happen to chicken/lamb/beef etc?

Banana99 · 21/08/2016 13:27

We'd destroy them because they would be eating valuable resources and taking up land.
Of course all the militant vegans would move them into their back gardens Hmm

SpeakNoWords · 21/08/2016 13:33

It isn't ever going to happen so it's arguable as to whether it's a meaningful discussion... but you'd have to immediately stop breeding any more livestock, and then see if it was feasible to let the existing animals live until their natural deaths. I would imagine it wouldn't be possible due to needing the resources to feed people, so the most humane and responsible thing to do would be to put them all down.