Guest post: "I'd never raise my children as anything but vegan"

[MumsnetGuestPosts]

I have been vegan for almost nine years. My four-year-old daughter has eaten a plant-based diet since birth (yes, breast milk is vegan) and my second baby, due shortly, will be joining her. It was never something we questioned. We knew that children could grow up strong and healthy on a vegan diet, so why would we introduce foods we wouldn't eat ourselves? My grandma thinks it's a shame she's never tasted a pork sausage, but other than that our choice hasn't attracted much criticism.

Last week, however, an Italian politician proposed a law that would allow the state to prosecute parents who choose to raise their children vegan. The proposed law has come about after a number of high-profile cases of severe malnourishment as a result of parents imposing inadequate vegan diets, and has opened up a debate about whether it's ok to raise children on a vegan diet.

A vegan diet needn't be restrictive. While veganism means avoiding animal products - cheese, meat, gelatine, to name but a few - a rich and varied diet is easily achievable. My daughter eats fruits and vegetables, lentils, tofu, grains, beans and nuts, cereals fortified with vitamins and she also takes a daily multivitamin specially formulated for vegan children. However, she can also hold her own when it comes to chocolate, chips, ice cream and all the other junk foods four-year-olds love to eat. I don’t want her to miss out, so I plan ahead for birthday parties or nursery celebrations so she can have sweets and cake with the rest of the children. She might grow up and decide she doesn't want to be vegan any more, but I don't want that to be because she felt left out growing up.

The NHS says that a vegan diet is fine for babies and children as long as it includes all of the necessary vitamins and minerals. The vegan parents I know are clued up when it comes to nutrition. I think being vegan actually encourages parents to be more critical of their family's diet than they may otherwise be - and that can only be a good thing.

Perhaps, instead of looking to prosecute vegan parents, it would be better for Italy to introduce measures to educate all parents about the importance of a varied diet in childhood. Italy has one of the highest rates of childhood obesity in the world - it’s clear that there's a pervasive lack of understanding about nutrition. Rather than vilifying all vegan parents for the mistakes of a few, resources would be better used educating people about how to achieve a healthy diet - whether this includes animal products or not.

I went vegan after years of being vegetarian. I found out about the cruelty involved in the dairy industry and decided to take the next step to reduce animal suffering. For me, veganism has always been about animal exploitation. The health and environmental benefits of the lifestyle are a bonus, but they're not the reason I choose to be vegan. I am raising my daughter to consider the needs of other people and animals when making decisions. She may not always be vegan. She might grow up and decide she loves beef burgers. I have no idea what the future holds, just like other parents don't know if their children will grow up to embrace the family's love of the outdoors, jazz music or the Labour Party. All I can do is try to teach her compassion now and hope that it sticks. And if it doesn't? Well, she's my daughter and I will love her unconditionally, no matter what.

[PaperdollCartoon]

Just come back and seen how horrendous this got, I am sorry to hear because it was such a lovely, respectful thread.

Please don't think all vegans are like this or think this way, just as Daesh do not represent all Muslims, this doesn't represent all vegans. There are unfortunately extremists in every group. There are many of us who would love to speak to you about these this things and perhaps challenge your views, but in entirely respectful ways. There are even more who just keep it to themselves entirely. Please don't tar as all with this brush, we're very aware how bad some vegans can be for veganism.

[dizzyfeck]

Banana99 you do realise that in order to keep crop yields high to keep healthfood shops stocked with wonderfoods requires poisoning, shooting and trapping wildlife who naturally compete for these foods. Alternatively they are intensively farmed at the expense of the environment. That will need to increase to ensure the developed world can meet their food needs without meat and dairy. It would be just as much of an environmental disaster as there currently is. Just less slaughter. I don't actually see how the world going vegan without drastically changing the way the developed world lives would actually be much of a benefit.

[PaperdollCartoon]

As a short answer to many of these points, I'd suggest reading Farmageddon and watching Cowspiracy. Farmageddon in particular is very well researched and speaks very well about the environmental effects of animal agriculture.

[user1471504509]

Wow. Meat eater here. As are the rest of my family. I think if you know what you are doing then great, be a vegan. It comes down to choice. Some weeks i'm just grateful I can feed my two kids as money is tight!
To the "meat eaters destroy the planet" types shame on you. Technically overpopulation is also causing huge problems but I dont hear anyone saying "stop having kids/have no kids".

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Bloody hell, what happened here?!

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

Contessa Well, the Holocaust was explained as not as bad as what cows go through now, I was told my dead grandparents would be ashamed of me, I was evil and my DC have no place in this world because they'll just 'perpetuate the real Holocaust,' I eat babies and am pure evil, therefore my 'bloodline' is as well.

Oh, and it's a mother's fault if a child is disabled because she ate meat during pregnancy,

Just to narrow it down a bit.

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

Plus any Holocaust survivor 'worth' surviving understands that cows have suffered the 'real' Holocaust.

I honestly thought these sorts of vegans were a myth. Now it's been aimed at me I know better.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Fuck me. Well, err... I don't know what to say to all that! Sorry you had to listen to it all FreyPie. What an unpleasant carry-on.

[dizzyfeck]

You forgot the fact that the vegan diet prevents cancer or can even cure cancer!

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

You should be striking a pose Contessa

I was saying 'but Contessa is normal the whole way though

In all seriousness though, I think people like that probably aren't well. That's just... Not the same as having different values like you and I have, for example.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Gosh dizzyfeck, I wish someone had told my mum that before she popped off.

There is a lot of it about sadly FreyPie - a lot of hyperbole in my opinion.

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

Oh yeah! Vegan diets cute cancer so, yknow, if you die of it it's your fault

At this point I'm just waiting for immaculate conception via veganism.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

I do try to model myself as the Reasonable Vegan! That makes me a sell-out pariah to those more hard-core members of the community though. They already disapprove of my stance on eggs from chickens kept as domestic pets (which is: yum).

[user1471504509]

SpecialAgent, Im sorry about your family.

[dizzyfeck]

I think it's a shame when crazy people hijack these threads because it does deflect attention away from the good. Vegan people are usually very health conscious, environmentally aware and doing a lot for the world. It's certainly not the only way to achieve this though, but it's certainly one way. Unfortunately vrganism, for some reason seems to atrract crackpots as well

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

Contessa Are you.... Are you trying to say you have reasonable doubt?! Didn't you know chickens only lay eggs to appease the Rooster Patriarchy? In all seriousness, I cannot eat supermarket cage eggs because if nothing else - They taste awful!

Thank you so much user I think sometimes some people forget how many of us are still affected daily by the Nazis. They think of it as a eighty year old war, not that there are still people suffering the consequences.

[PaperdollCartoon]

Contessa I'm also fine with eggs from garden hens, as long as they're fed proper high protein food to offset damage from overproduction. If my garden was hen friendly I'd get some myself.

SpecialAgent 💐

Vegan diets are a magic wand but many studies have shown they can protect against certain kinds of cancer, especially colorectal cancers, the kinds linked with eating processed meat. There's also some evidence that dairy consumption is linked with female cancers. But the health benefits of a vegan diet are massively over-exagered by some, which has the unfortunate effect of making people then not listen to any of it at all.

[PaperdollCartoon]

Are not a magic wand*!
I really should proof read.

[CoteDAzur]

Wth happened here?

Anyway re "Vegan diets are not a magic wand but many studies have shown they can protect against certain kinds of cancer, especially colorectal cancers, the kinds linked with eating processed meat."

Can you provide links to studies that show vegans dont get "certain types of cancer" including colorectal? That is what "protect against" means, after all, like Vitamin C protects against scurvy.

[CoteDAzur]

Googling for a few minutes, I find the opposite seems to be true, actually:

Other studies, including a study of early risk markers (3) and meta-analyses such as the Pooling Project of Prospective Studies of Diet and Cancer (4), indicate that calcium-rich dairy foods are also chemoprotective against colon cancer.

From here

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

I've completely thrown my hands up with this. There are plenty of nice, normal vegans on other threads I can get recipes off. Though tbh, I will probably never open a thread with the word 'vegan' on it again.

I hate feeling like I'm a hysteric for being so incredibly hurt by internet weirdos

[SpeakNoWords]

I think anyone would have been hurt by the ridiculousness that was hurled at you by the goady weirdos that derailed the thread. It isn't hysterical to have that reaction at all.

I hope you find some good recipes on other threads from proper vegans :-)

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

Thank you Speak - I might namechange as I'm paranoid that various info I've given over my family's complex religious history might out me.

To get back to the topic on hand, I think our diet is far too meat based. That's why I like to throw in vegan meals sometimes. DH needs to stay very fit for his work, and I'm the sort of person who can eat a lot of garbage and not gain weight, so if I'm not careful I can accidentally end up with a very unhealthy diet.

For the omnivores on here, how often do you think is 'too' much meat a week?

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Sorry Frey, I forgot

We have some good go-to recipes which usually involve just substituting marge or oil for butter, if necessary; sometimes not even that.

Squash chili soup
Broccoli and tahini bake
Roasted aubergine and chickpeas
Jacket potato with curried mushrooms
Pumpkin and chickpea curry
Beetroot curry
In fact, lots of curries - Madhur Jaffrey does a good line in ones which are naturally vegan
And daal, obviously!

Let me know if any of those appeal and I'll write them up. I also have a good vegan alternative to snickers which you can make at home

[CoteDAzur]

Special - You are not hysterical

"For the omnivores on here, how often do you think is 'too' much meat a week?"

I don't think there is a "too much" limit for meat or any other food item, except where amounts are concerned beyond which they are toxic to the body - even water is toxic if consumed in large amounts and has caused deaths.

I can (and have) eaten a mostly-meat-and-dairy diet and feel fantastic. I can't, however, eat more than a small amount of grains & beans per day. If I do, I bloat. The discomfort and especially the flatulence is really terrible.

I'm not intolerant and haven't always been this way. I think it's only in the past 10 years or so that I have to avoid pasta, bread, etc and only eat small amounts of the various bean dishes that I cook.

I think my gut flora has changed/got nastier & more aggressive over the years I try to eat foods that my body digests easily without relying on the gut flora to do the digesting for it.