Guest post: "I'd never raise my children as anything but vegan"

[MumsnetGuestPosts]

I have been vegan for almost nine years. My four-year-old daughter has eaten a plant-based diet since birth (yes, breast milk is vegan) and my second baby, due shortly, will be joining her. It was never something we questioned. We knew that children could grow up strong and healthy on a vegan diet, so why would we introduce foods we wouldn't eat ourselves? My grandma thinks it's a shame she's never tasted a pork sausage, but other than that our choice hasn't attracted much criticism.

Last week, however, an Italian politician proposed a law that would allow the state to prosecute parents who choose to raise their children vegan. The proposed law has come about after a number of high-profile cases of severe malnourishment as a result of parents imposing inadequate vegan diets, and has opened up a debate about whether it's ok to raise children on a vegan diet.

A vegan diet needn't be restrictive. While veganism means avoiding animal products - cheese, meat, gelatine, to name but a few - a rich and varied diet is easily achievable. My daughter eats fruits and vegetables, lentils, tofu, grains, beans and nuts, cereals fortified with vitamins and she also takes a daily multivitamin specially formulated for vegan children. However, she can also hold her own when it comes to chocolate, chips, ice cream and all the other junk foods four-year-olds love to eat. I don’t want her to miss out, so I plan ahead for birthday parties or nursery celebrations so she can have sweets and cake with the rest of the children. She might grow up and decide she doesn't want to be vegan any more, but I don't want that to be because she felt left out growing up.

The NHS says that a vegan diet is fine for babies and children as long as it includes all of the necessary vitamins and minerals. The vegan parents I know are clued up when it comes to nutrition. I think being vegan actually encourages parents to be more critical of their family's diet than they may otherwise be - and that can only be a good thing.

Perhaps, instead of looking to prosecute vegan parents, it would be better for Italy to introduce measures to educate all parents about the importance of a varied diet in childhood. Italy has one of the highest rates of childhood obesity in the world - it’s clear that there's a pervasive lack of understanding about nutrition. Rather than vilifying all vegan parents for the mistakes of a few, resources would be better used educating people about how to achieve a healthy diet - whether this includes animal products or not.

I went vegan after years of being vegetarian. I found out about the cruelty involved in the dairy industry and decided to take the next step to reduce animal suffering. For me, veganism has always been about animal exploitation. The health and environmental benefits of the lifestyle are a bonus, but they're not the reason I choose to be vegan. I am raising my daughter to consider the needs of other people and animals when making decisions. She may not always be vegan. She might grow up and decide she loves beef burgers. I have no idea what the future holds, just like other parents don't know if their children will grow up to embrace the family's love of the outdoors, jazz music or the Labour Party. All I can do is try to teach her compassion now and hope that it sticks. And if it doesn't? Well, she's my daughter and I will love her unconditionally, no matter what.

[JeanMilburn]

Post of the day

[Goldfish2]

My parents raised me on a omnivore diet and we were still given a multivitamin. Are you actually that uneducated that you don’t know children are supposed to take certain vitamins to begin with, anyway. Particular vitamin d as they shouldn’t be exposed to the sun especially without suncream.

[Ladiva1971]

I work with a vegan and he brings in a 'Living salad' to work????????????? Cracks me up every time............

[Breadandwine]

Hi Fiona

I wondered if you'd come across [[http://littlevbigv.com/lvbvs/qas-on-parenting-a-vegan-child/
this blog.]] I've sent it to my DD who's flirting with veggie/vegan and has a 3yr-old.

[Natsku]

Cheers. Always worth knowing some good recipes in case future babies have the same allergies (luckily DD has outgrown hers, but then developed coeliac disease - shitty genes!)

[Breadandwine]

Natsku, I have a few gluten free vegan recipes on my blog. Pancakes, chocolate cakes, fruit pikelets spring to mind as being reasonably successful.

Here's the choc cake.

Just put gluten free in the search box and have a look around.

[Natsku]

Don't like normal snickers anyway!

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Also, that snickers recipe is gluten-free as long as you get certified oats (I think). Pretty sure you can just subsist on that

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Natsku I have an American cookbook which is vegan but also happens to be mostly gluten-free, as the author feels it's healthier. I have made a number of her dishes and they are Not Bad! Variable, but there are some great ones in there. Obviously no seitan for you but still.

Her name is Dreena Burton (linky) and I've got her 'Let them eat vegan' book. Worth a punt on Amazon if you're interested?

[Natsku]

Well that's another reason I won't go vegan - can't eat gluten. Wouldn't mind some more of that vegan toffee though. When DD was allergic to dairy and eggs I had to use vegan recipes for baking and they always turned out horrid, how do people make them edible??

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Apologies Nowabruptly, I have become a bit paranoid on this thread!

And Natsku well that's the diet stuffed up then - thank YOU.

[Nowabruptly]

Ooh and thank you Natsku for the toffee recipe. Pure evil! I have made a few very good things from the Ms Cupcake cookbook.

[Nowabruptly]

Contessa, was most certainly not sarcasm! (How rude would that have been!) Recipe looks wonderful, thank you.
And to Breadandwine for the seitan recipe. Have never tried making seitan.

[RedLarvaYellowLarva]

Wish there was a like button on here, B&W.

[Breadandwine]

Thanks for those recipes, folks!

Would also love your seitan recipe, I use a few different ones but don't feel I've found 'the one' yet

Here's mine, I developed it from the cutlet recipe in Veganomicon - basically, it's leftover veg stew, mashed, and made into a dough by adding flavoured vital wheat gluten. This can either be fried to make a cutlet, or baked, to make a roast.

[Breadandwine]

There's no doubt in my mind that a plant-based diet is better for everyone: for our health; for animal welfare; and, most importantly, for the planet. Giving up meat and meat products is the single most effective action anyone can take in combatting global warming. (Probably a subject for another thread.)

We also have teeth designed for a meat eating diet, as it is a quick and efficient way to take in protein.

Hmm… Not so, we have teeth that evolved (not 'designed') for grinding, not tearing:

“You’ve got a long, winding digestive tract, weak stomach acid and no fangs. Carnivores have short digestive systems, SUPER powerful stomach acid, and razor sharp teeth (claws, too). Is it possible you were born for fruit of tree - NOT flesh of beast? I’d say so. But then I’m a ‘sucker for straight logic'." JSekerak.com

It (is) downright dangerous to suggest that veganism cures cancer.

"Animal protein consumption causes an increase in blood levels of a cancer-promoting growth hormone called IGF-1. But, remove meat, egg whites, and dairy proteins from our diet, and our bloodstream can suppress cancer cell growth about eight times better. An effect so powerful that Dr. Ornish and colleagues appeared able to reverse the progression of prostate cancer without chemo, surgery, or radiation; just a plant-based diet and other healthy lifestyle changes."

nutritionfacts.org/video/food-as-medicine/

"A hundred thousand men and women followed for up to 20 years, and milk-drinking women had higher rates of death, more heart disease, and significantly more cancer for each daily glass of milk. Three glasses a day was associated with nearly twice the risk of death. And they had significantly more bone and hip fractures too.

“…dairy milk evolved to put a few hundred pounds onto a calf within the first few months of life. But the consequences of lifetime human exposure to the growth factors in milk have not been well studied. We know milk consumption increases IGF-1, which is linked to cancer, and we’re milking cows while they’re pregnant, resulting in particularly high levels of hormones."

"Although dairy products are an important source of hormones, other products of animal origin must be considered as well. This may help explain why women can cut their breast cancer risk not just by being normal weight and limiting alcohol, but also by eating mostly foods of plant origin. To help differentiate the effects of diet from other lifestyle behaviors—like smoking and drinking—on overall cancer incidence, Adventists were compared to Baptists. Both discourage alcohol and tobacco, but the Adventists go further, encouraging a reduction of meat. In general, the Adventists had less cancer than the Baptists, and within Adventist populations, the vegetarians did even better, and those eating the most plants did the best."
//Ibid

(Thanks to RedLarva for the above link.)

[Natsku]

I know one good vegan recipe - vegan toffee. Coconut cream plus sugar boiled together. Tastes lush.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Oh dear, I'm sorry - thought it hadn't posted!

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Nowabruptly

Here it is! I'd sub in melted dark choc for raw cacao powder if possible though; not tried that myself but reckon it would taste more luxurious I used salted peanuts for the centre layer and they were lush!

HOMEMADE VEGAN SNICKERS BARS - worth the effort!

PREP TIME
30 mins

INGREDIENTS

Nougat Base:
7 large Medjool Dates
6 Tablespoons Ground Almonds
6 Tablespoons blitzed oats
Seeds of ½ a Vanilla Pod
Tiny pinch of Sea Salt

Peanut "Caramel" Layer:
14 large Medjool Dates
Seeds of ½ a Vanilla Pod
4 Tablespoons Natural Peanut Butter
4 Tablespoons Almond-Coconut Milk (or any other non-dairy milk)
2 teaspoons Maple Syrup
½ cup chopped Peanuts

Chocolate Coating:
7½ Tablespoons Coconut Oil
5 Tablespoons Raw Cacao Powder
4 Tablespoons Maple Syrup
Small pinch of Sea Salt
Extra chopped peanuts to sprinkle on top.

INSTRUCTIONS

Make Nougat Base: In a food processor, combine all ingredients until a "dough" forms. If it's too dry, add ½ a teaspoon of water at a time until it forms a dough. Pat into the base of an 8 inch tin lined with cling film. Place in freezer whilst making filling.
Clean out food processor.

Make Peanut Caramel Layer: In the clean food processor, combine dates, vanilla, peanut butter, milk and maple syrup. Process till you get an almost smooth, thick "caramel". Scrape down sides in-between if dates stick to the side of the processor bowl.
Pour "caramel" into a bowl and fold in chopped peanuts. Spread mixture onto nougat base and place into the freezer for 1 hour to set.

Make Chocolate Coating: Combine all chocolate coating ingredients and whisk till smooth. Pour over your nougat/caramel base and then top with more chopped peanuts before placing into the freezer to set. Let your bars freeze for 5 - 8 hours, or overnight.
Once frozen, release mixture from the tin, and cut into small pieces. Store in the freezer, eat from frozen - no need to defrost as the mixture doesn't get very hard.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Nowabruptly I'll assume that's enthusiastic fervour rather than heavy sarcasm here's the recipe - it comes from my exercise class, which was not advertised as vegan but has a suspiciously high concentration of them....

I have made these and they are good! I want to try them again but with melted dark chocolate in place of the cacao powder though, as I think it'd taste nicer. Or just use Bourneville as I did (who has raw cacao powder)?!

HOMEMADE VEGAN SNICKERS BARS - worth the effort!

PREP TIME
30 mins

INGREDIENTS

Nougat Base:
7 large Medjool Dates
6 Tablespoons Ground Almonds
6 Tablespoons blitzed oats
Seeds of ½ a Vanilla Pod
Tiny pinch of Sea Salt

Peanut "Caramel" Layer:
14 large Medjool Dates
Seeds of ½ a Vanilla Pod
4 Tablespoons Natural Peanut Butter
4 Tablespoons Almond-Coconut Milk (or any other non-dairy milk)
2 teaspoons Maple Syrup
½ cup chopped Peanuts

Chocolate Coating:
7½ Tablespoons Coconut Oil
5 Tablespoons Raw Cacao Powder
4 Tablespoons Maple Syrup
Small pinch of Sea Salt
Extra chopped peanuts to sprinkle on top.

INSTRUCTIONS

Make Nougat Base: In a food processor, combine all ingredients until a "dough" forms. If it's too dry, add ½ a teaspoon of water at a time until it forms a dough. Pat into the base of an 8 inch tin lined with cling film. Place in freezer whilst making filling.
Clean out food processor.

Make Peanut Caramel Layer: In the clean food processor, combine dates, vanilla, peanut butter, milk and maple syrup. Process till you get an almost smooth, thick "caramel". Scrape down sides in-between if dates stick to the side of the processor bowl.
Pour "caramel" into a bowl and fold in chopped peanuts. Spread mixture onto nougat base and place into the freezer for 1 hour to set.

Make Chocolate Coating: Combine all chocolate coating ingredients and whisk till smooth. Pour over your nougat/caramel base and then top with more chopped peanuts before placing into the freezer to set. Let your bars freeze for 5 - 8 hours, or overnight.
Once frozen, release mixture from the tin, and cut into small pieces. Store in the freezer, eat from frozen - no need to defrost as the mixture doesn't get very hard.

[Nowabruptly]

CONTESSA - VEGAN SNICKERS RECIPE?!!! - OH PLEASE SHARE!

[Natsku]

I agree with cote, its an individual thing about too much. I eat meat almost every day but small amounts as I can only eat small meals. Some meals are just meat, others meat and veg.

[CoteDAzur]

Special - You are not hysterical

"For the omnivores on here, how often do you think is 'too' much meat a week?"

I don't think there is a "too much" limit for meat or any other food item, except where amounts are concerned beyond which they are toxic to the body - even water is toxic if consumed in large amounts and has caused deaths.

I can (and have) eaten a mostly-meat-and-dairy diet and feel fantastic. I can't, however, eat more than a small amount of grains & beans per day. If I do, I bloat. The discomfort and especially the flatulence is really terrible.

I'm not intolerant and haven't always been this way. I think it's only in the past 10 years or so that I have to avoid pasta, bread, etc and only eat small amounts of the various bean dishes that I cook.

I think my gut flora has changed/got nastier & more aggressive over the years I try to eat foods that my body digests easily without relying on the gut flora to do the digesting for it.

[LaContessaDiPlump]

Sorry Frey, I forgot

We have some good go-to recipes which usually involve just substituting marge or oil for butter, if necessary; sometimes not even that.

Squash chili soup
Broccoli and tahini bake
Roasted aubergine and chickpeas
Jacket potato with curried mushrooms
Pumpkin and chickpea curry
Beetroot curry
In fact, lots of curries - Madhur Jaffrey does a good line in ones which are naturally vegan
And daal, obviously!

Let me know if any of those appeal and I'll write them up. I also have a good vegan alternative to snickers which you can make at home

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

Thank you Speak - I might namechange as I'm paranoid that various info I've given over my family's complex religious history might out me.

To get back to the topic on hand, I think our diet is far too meat based. That's why I like to throw in vegan meals sometimes. DH needs to stay very fit for his work, and I'm the sort of person who can eat a lot of garbage and not gain weight, so if I'm not careful I can accidentally end up with a very unhealthy diet.

For the omnivores on here, how often do you think is 'too' much meat a week?