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Guest post: "As sex workers, our lives depend on decriminalisation"

390 replies

JosephineMumsnet · 07/07/2016 12:19

I was 19 years old when I made the decision to sell sex. An unorthodox choice, certainly, but one which helped me get through university without crippling debt, and later, a choice which would allow me to return to university as a single parent and complete my second degree. Please don't fall into the trap of assuming that because I'm a white, middle-class, educated woman I can't possibly understand the abject misery that is sometimes seen in our industry. I stood on Burlington Road in Dublin in the dead of winter, often drunk or out of my head on cocaine, or both, selling sex at £30 a time. That's not privileged. Now, with over 20 years behind me, I can finally put that experience to use, and educate people about the realities of our industry, and what would make us safer.

As the debate around the sex industry gathers steam, there are two schools of thought. Punish the punters by making it illegal to purchase sex, or decriminalise the laws around sex work. Let's look at both.

The law that criminalises the punter was introduced in Sweden in 1999 and has been an abject failure. Its aim was to reduce prostitution by reducing 'demand', but the Swedish government admits there has been no change to the number of buyers, or sellers. So what has changed? Violence against sex workers has increased sharply, with police targeting their homes to arrest buyers, often resulting in their being made homeless. The most vulnerable sex workers on the streets cannot be reached by outreach services, to facilitate condom distribution or needle exchange, as they need to work away from police detection. Sex workers are refusing to report violence to police, as they know they place themselves at risk from the very people supposed to protect them. Stigma has increased, with sex workers in both Sweden and Norway reporting having their children removed, and deportation of migrant sex workers is rife.

One of the most infuriating strands to the current feminist discourse around sex work is the assertion that we are abused, or even raped, every time we sell sex. That statement is injurious and grossly insulting to those who have survived abuse and rape, and it also strips sex workers of our agency. As much as we campaign for the right to say 'yes', we absolutely reserve the right to say 'no'. I detest the use of the word 'empowerment' in any debate on sex work. My job is no more empowering than anyone else's; it allows me to support my family and pay my bills. But as a community, there is no doubt that we are more empowered to say 'no' when we are permitted to work together for safety.

Under current legislation, and even more so under the Swedish model, sex workers are not permitted to work more than one to a premises. If I ask a friend to share an apartment with me so I feel safer in accepting visiting clients, we can be arrested and charged with 'pimping' from each other. That practice is commonplace. As cash, mobile phones and laptops are often removed as 'evidence', the women concerned are left with nothing but a criminal record, simply for wishing to stay safe.

So what is decriminalisation? Not to be confused with legalisation, it refers to the removal of all criminal prohibitions and penalties on sex work. In doing so, it protects the human rights of sex workers, as acknowledged by WHO, UNAIDS, The Lancet and more recently, Amnesty International.

Decriminalisation allows us to work together for safety, which is crucial. Decriminalisation also makes it easier to access justice and support services, and facilitates a better response to true exploitation in the industry. When the police work with us, not against us, we are best placed to identify and report others in danger.

On June 1 2015, the Northern Irish Assembly made it illegal to purchase sex. I have launched a High Court challenge to that law and will take it to the European Court of Human Rights if necessary. You may not like or be comfortable with the exchange of sex for money and that's fine - that's not what this debate is about. It's about our right to safety in the workplace. 154 sex workers have been murdered since 1990. We ask for your support for decriminalisation. Our lives depend on it.

Read Kat Banyard's post here.

OP posts:
DetestableHerytike · 10/07/2016 17:35

Matthias, that wasn't a description of the children of prostitutes.

Massive, no, that isn't a nice description. It is referring to the fact that punters are typically wanking into sex workers - it's not a mutual sexual experience.

sillage · 10/07/2016 17:59

I see nothing in researcher Axel Dreher's statements that doesn't support the Nordic Model of decriminalizing prostitution and criminalizing demand.

The sex industry Gaye Dalton and MatthiasLehmann defend is a multibillion dollar industry that markets its most profitable prostituted product (porn) with hatred for women and girls. Gaye and Matthias's misogyny is directed mainly towards women and it demands that women be 100% pure and perfect when informally discussing prostitution while excusing the very wealthy capitalist men who market prostitution with these examples I've saved from unsolicited porn spam sent to my inbox:

young & doing it for the 1st time
It Was Bloody
Crazy Girls MAKE it fit..
Jizz guzzlers
Nasty..Asian Teens..bent Over..
Stupid...Blondes get slapped..in the Ass...
chicks face looks like a glazed donut
Seduced....Blondes get Abused

why get a pro, get a first timer
Hidden shower cams
bathroom cameras show EVRYTH!NG!
Small town sluts
Tight hot teens K
100%free H0rnY eboNy girLs
Tight hot teens J

My mom sucked my penis and i liked it
ce urinating pussy pics/movies
nude pictures of my little sis jenny
Watch Me Pickup My Friends Mom And Screw Her ...
Watch How I get My Friends Mom To Suck On My ...
bathroom cameras

B!g T!tty BL0nde Wh0re
Completely free dirty teens
Blonde...Hardcore models get Slammed..
teenagers with little B cups
Watch These Sloppy Teen Girls Get It All Over
Check Out These Sleeping Teen Girls Being Scr...
Check Out These Amateur Teen Sluts Begging F...
Watch These Hidden Shower Cams Of Hot College...
Drunk..College girls..get taken..Advange off

Hot Teen Lesbian Threesomes After Mom Leaves
Nasty ButtSluts take it in the Ass!
Shocking hole stretching
AdV...Mature Blondes..sucking.
You get to see this girl have a dickSlurpee
Bend over my pretty wife for no money...
DEsperate..Mature Blondes..do anything..

Dear Gaye and Matthias,

I suggest you stop inferring that citizen women discussing prostitution hateful bigots for using the word "prostitute" and start showing some intellectual integrity and feminism by getting rip-roaring angry at the pornographers who go way, WAY past "prostitute" when presenting prostituted product to the world.

Like Gaye says, it's about putting your energy into the place where it will do the most good for sex workers instead of picking on powerless, anonymous women having an informal discussion online.

GayeDalton · 10/07/2016 22:05

BeyondVulvaResistance

I see, so now you realise we will never accept the term "prostituted women" you have decided to punish us by trying to force us to accept being called "human wanksox" instead...

Good luck with that.

Felascloak · 10/07/2016 22:29

I read that invisible man tumblr earlier. Its really very hard to see how a sex worker could argue with the term "human wanksock" after reading what the johns really think.
the-invisible-men.tumblr.com

KatieKaboom · 10/07/2016 22:45

Vulva clearly doesn't regard prostitutes as such.

The so-called men who treat women like a fucking commodity do.

GayeDalton · 10/07/2016 23:10

sillage

HOW DARE YOU

I have known and cared about sex workers for 44 years.

You neither know them, nor care about them at all:
#You do not care if they have a reasonable income
#You do not care if they have a reasonable home, or even a home all
#You do not care if their children can have safe, nurtured and appropriate childhood (So what if the puppy has to be put down as long as you get your way - wasn't that you? Do you have any conception of how devastating that could be to a real human child? No you don't. and what is more you couldn't care less.)
#You do not care if they have the autonomy to base their decisions on their own experience and attitudes.

ALL you care about is abusing their lives to get your own way, that's it, nothing else, they could die screaming in front of you and, as long as you were still getting your own way you wouldn't even blink.

Pornographers?? The only pornographer I know is one of the first people I would go to if someone was in trouble and needed help fast, because he would see the situation rationally, and because there would be no strings of any kind.

You are the worst real, material threat to sex workers I have ever seen. Any sex worker in trouble ALSO needs protection from you.

We are not blind, deaf and stupid, we see your lies, your mindgames and your passive aggression. We see your callous disregard for everything and everybody but yourselves. We see your blind ambition, your pathological need to control and your total lack of scruples. We see your cruelty and immaturity too.

"powerless, anonymous women"

I don't think so. The only reason I don't start naming names is because honestly? Even under your own names you all look the same to me - spiteful, destructive, cookie cutter monsters.

HOW DARE YOU suggest that I could ever be like you.

KatieKaboom · 10/07/2016 23:18

You are the worst real, material threat to sex workers I have ever seen.

Yes, someone disagreeing with you on the internet is far worse than rape and murder.

Ridiculous.

DetestableHerytike · 10/07/2016 23:19

No comments on those pornography titles then, Gaye?

0phelia · 10/07/2016 23:45

Gaye

While sillage is a poster certainly lacking in bedside manner, s/he is absolutely not a threat to sex workers, in patently pointing out the inherent misogyny within sex trade. Feminism is not a threat to sex workers.

Even I can see our biggest threat as sex workers lie elsewhere.

Your arguments are all very convincing as to why a woman often needs to and therefore should be allowed to work as a prostitute. But none of your arguments actually extend to why the practice should be fully legalised, given the disastrous wider ramifications of legalisation wherever it has been tried.

"How does a mum of three on benefit sanctions survive"? By all means choose sex work if you fancy that sort of thing.
Should it be fully decriminalized?
I say no. I've had 20 in industry years to come to my conclusion.

IPityThePontipines · 10/07/2016 23:48

Gaye - do you not have anything to add to the discussion other than name-calling and baseless accusations?

Oh, and accusing a woman of lying about receiving death threats Hmm

TheRealPosieParker · 11/07/2016 09:57

Oh yuck.

Having been to both South Korea and Thailand, as well as other countries where prostitution is survival, I can safely say anyone promoting sex work for these nations must really really hate women.

The misogyny in Thailand is tangible, you can almost taste it as you walk around. The hollow giggles of very young looking women with slippery western and Russian men is enough to make one hurl. Men walk around like they have their virility dangling upon their arms, all looking just a slip away from being absolute bastards. It's a very weird thing to witness and so uncomfortable. The only thing I could think having witnessed it is how it should stop, not how to make it easier for men to do it.

Grotesque.

TheRealPosieParker · 11/07/2016 09:58

GAYE
*sillage

HOW DARE YOU

I have known and cared about sex workers for 44 years.*

Encouraging them to keep on allowing misogynists use them.... that's really caring.

TheRealPosieParker · 11/07/2016 10:00

We are not blind, deaf and stupid, we see your lies, your mindgames and your passive aggression. We see your callous disregard for everything and everybody but yourselves. We see your blind ambition, your pathological need to control and your total lack of scruples. We see your cruelty and immaturity too.

You should read up on Stockholm syndrome.

Snowshimmer · 11/07/2016 10:01

Gaye wrote:
*ALL you care about is abusing their lives to get your own way, that's it, nothing else, they could die screaming in front of you and, as long as you were still getting your own way you wouldn't even blink.

You are the worst real, material threat to sex workers I have ever seen. Any sex worker in trouble ALSO needs protection from you.

We are not blind, deaf and stupid, we see your lies, your mindgames and your passive aggression. We see your callous disregard for everything and everybody but yourselves. We see your blind ambition, your pathological need to control and your total lack of scruples. We see your cruelty and immaturity too.

Even under your own names you all look the same to me - spiteful, destructive, cookie cutter monsters.*

Interesting. What you wrote could easily be said of pimps and punters, but instead this is how you react to Mumsnet posters who are against pimps and punters using and abusing women.
We’re monsters huh? I don’t even want to report this or the victim blaming comments about women making up rape and death threats. They show very clearly the pro-sex industry attitudes to women and feminists.

MassiveStrumpet · 11/07/2016 10:13

This thread is just awful. It's a shame that Laura hasn't been around for the weekend because I think it's been hijacked by a handful of hysterical and vitriolic posters who aren't really making a lot of sense. (On both sides.) All the personal attacks and bizarre hyperbole is just disgraceful.

0phelia · 11/07/2016 10:20

Massive yeah it reads like some posters are quite drunk Wine Grin

BeyondVulvaResistance · 11/07/2016 10:22

Thank you Katie - I thought it was quite clear what I meant but obviously not for some.

How does a mum of three on benefit sanctions survive? Obviously the way of solving that is to allow men to legally buy her, heaven forbid we actually stop taking essential money of people Hmm

tangoman · 11/07/2016 10:43

I am afraid this thread has gone the same way as many prostitution threads on Mumsnet (of which there have been over 200 since 2004-and to which over 90 current and former prostitutes have contributed).

Now the prostitute posters on Mumsnet may not be representative of the total population of prostitutes (in the sense that the proportion reporting particular experiences reflect the proportion in the population of prostitutes as a whole -there were no street prostitutes for instance ) but that the experiences of prostitution were very varied, some good and some dire.

Of course the contributors were self-selecting, had access to the internet and the more disadvantaged prostitutes might not contribute to the threads, but the point is that there is a spectrum of experiences in prostitution, this variety of experiences in confirmed by a number of well conducted qualitative and quantitative academic studies as well as ethnographic studies of prostitutes.

Very few of the prostitutes described themselves as “happy hookers” few fit the “oppression paradigm” of those forced into prostitution by abuse drugs, pimps or dire experiences as children; the majority occupy the space between these extremes

What is particularly interesting is the way that prostitutes whose posts do not conform to the oppression paradigm are treated by the self-declared feminists on Mumsnet (doublelife escort222, escortandmum escortkarin kimberlyC misshoneymoon mandamummu msmont sapphirestarfish sprogssprogssprogs)are a few who were the subjects of such abuse . If their posts are in the slightest way “happy hookerish” their veracity is denied, there are claims that they are male fantasists, (an accusation only stopped by providing their working names and websites) they are called trolls, shills, sock puppets for the pimp-punter lobby,, disgusting (one of the mildest form of abuse), and throwing the majority of prostitutes (claimed to be the oppressed) under the bus. (eg PosieComeHereMyPreciousParker ElisabethAlice sapphirestarfish and others on

Other posters find that attempts are made to reframe their experiences (despite their denials) and shoehorn them into the “oppression paradigm”, or to claim that they are suffering from false consciousness (denying abuse or claiming they chose prostitution but in fact were coerced by pimps, poverty drugs etc) or that are putting on brave face and denying how awful it is as a means of self- or that their experiences are not representative,

Somehow these Mumsnet feminists know more about prostitution than the prostitutes themselves.

Felascloak · 11/07/2016 11:08

My position is that the men who use prostitutes are inescapably misogynistic as they think they have a "right to sex". I think we need to tackle prostitution as one of the steps in creating a more female-friendly society.
Whether or not individual prostitutes are happy with their choice of work actually isn't that relevant to my views of prostitution overall.
Men who want to use prostitutes have a vested interest in shifting this debate onto "women's right to choose" as obviously a women has every right to sell her body if that's what she wants and she is not coerced into that decision.
I will never think that the choice of men to buy sex should be condoned in society so I don't support criminalisation. The super brothels in Germany are chilling.

Felascloak · 11/07/2016 11:09

*De criminalisation

0phelia · 11/07/2016 11:16

Well exactly Felas
So many men advocate women's right to choose (prostitution) but do not advocate women's right to choose financial self sufficiency in other ways, (eg by offering to stay at home fathering).

Feminists probably do know a damn sight more about the reasons and implications surrounding prostitution than many prostitutes themselves who are caught up in the sex trade world. I say this as a CSA survivor prostitute myself. I hate to see the abuse of girls and women in any form and prostitution legitimizes these abuses.

DetestableHerytike · 11/07/2016 13:09

Yy felas

The existence of prostitution, like the existence of slavery, child labour or the poor selling organs reflect power structures that need stamping out. It is the concept that consent is a commodity that is disgusting, not any individual sex worker.

FloraFox · 11/07/2016 14:07

tangoman you seem oddly obsessed incredibly knowledgable about the history of prostitution discussions on Mumsnet. Interesting you don't mention the opprobrium for punters and pimps expressed by MN feminists. Funny that.

GayeDalton · 11/07/2016 15:46

The same message over and over in different words:

Whether men can buy sex matters because I don't like it. Whether desperate women and, often, their families can survive with a reasonable quality of life is irrelevant because it doesn't make any difference to me

TheRealPosieParker · 11/07/2016 16:19

tangoman sent me PMs..... boring, pointless, MRA style PMs.