Guest post: "As sex workers, our lives depend on decriminalisation"

[JosephineMumsnet]

I was 19 years old when I made the decision to sell sex. An unorthodox choice, certainly, but one which helped me get through university without crippling debt, and later, a choice which would allow me to return to university as a single parent and complete my second degree. Please don't fall into the trap of assuming that because I'm a white, middle-class, educated woman I can't possibly understand the abject misery that is sometimes seen in our industry. I stood on Burlington Road in Dublin in the dead of winter, often drunk or out of my head on cocaine, or both, selling sex at £30 a time. That's not privileged. Now, with over 20 years behind me, I can finally put that experience to use, and educate people about the realities of our industry, and what would make us safer.

As the debate around the sex industry gathers steam, there are two schools of thought. Punish the punters by making it illegal to purchase sex, or decriminalise the laws around sex work. Let's look at both.

The law that criminalises the punter was introduced in Sweden in 1999 and has been an abject failure. Its aim was to reduce prostitution by reducing 'demand', but the Swedish government admits there has been no change to the number of buyers, or sellers. So what has changed? Violence against sex workers has increased sharply, with police targeting their homes to arrest buyers, often resulting in their being made homeless. The most vulnerable sex workers on the streets cannot be reached by outreach services, to facilitate condom distribution or needle exchange, as they need to work away from police detection. Sex workers are refusing to report violence to police, as they know they place themselves at risk from the very people supposed to protect them. Stigma has increased, with sex workers in both Sweden and Norway reporting having their children removed, and deportation of migrant sex workers is rife.

One of the most infuriating strands to the current feminist discourse around sex work is the assertion that we are abused, or even raped, every time we sell sex. That statement is injurious and grossly insulting to those who have survived abuse and rape, and it also strips sex workers of our agency. As much as we campaign for the right to say 'yes', we absolutely reserve the right to say 'no'. I detest the use of the word 'empowerment' in any debate on sex work. My job is no more empowering than anyone else's; it allows me to support my family and pay my bills. But as a community, there is no doubt that we are more empowered to say 'no' when we are permitted to work together for safety.

Under current legislation, and even more so under the Swedish model, sex workers are not permitted to work more than one to a premises. If I ask a friend to share an apartment with me so I feel safer in accepting visiting clients, we can be arrested and charged with 'pimping' from each other. That practice is commonplace. As cash, mobile phones and laptops are often removed as 'evidence', the women concerned are left with nothing but a criminal record, simply for wishing to stay safe.

So what is decriminalisation? Not to be confused with legalisation, it refers to the removal of all criminal prohibitions and penalties on sex work. In doing so, it protects the human rights of sex workers, as acknowledged by WHO, UNAIDS, The Lancet and more recently, Amnesty International.

Decriminalisation allows us to work together for safety, which is crucial. Decriminalisation also makes it easier to access justice and support services, and facilitates a better response to true exploitation in the industry. When the police work with us, not against us, we are best placed to identify and report others in danger.

On June 1 2015, the Northern Irish Assembly made it illegal to purchase sex. I have launched a High Court challenge to that law and will take it to the European Court of Human Rights if necessary. You may not like or be comfortable with the exchange of sex for money and that's fine - that's not what this debate is about. It's about our right to safety in the workplace. 154 sex workers have been murdered since 1990. We ask for your support for decriminalisation. Our lives depend on it.

Read Kat Banyard's post here.

[thegoodnameshadgone]

I have no experience in politics, sex work but if it's your job you choose it's your job. Surely the same rights as self employed should apply. (Understand this won't apply to everyone)

It's just a job. Ideally we'd all have a job we love but reality we don't so why single out the profession as old as god.

It's a service. Like any other. I don't agree with gambling but it's a service plastered everywhere?

I think legal rules would protect everyone. It's not like this is something that's going to stop.

[user1471707421]

^

[GayeDalton]

VestalVirgin

If you don't even think a woman could want casual sex with attractive men on a regular basis, why do you think society should promote women selling their bodies to punters?

Try: because women tend to want, and even need, large sums of money reliably, which is all sex work is about for most women. The sex is just a task. You think anyone is panting with carnal desire to work in Tesco?

[GayeDalton]

IPityThePontipines

No, I am certainly not an Assad supporter. I was objecting to your patronising and inaccurate description of Syrian people and their culture

Wrong I was referring to the Mid East in general, which, in case you haven't noticed, has overrun Syria lately (Palestinian mercenaries, among others, fight with Assad while Al Nusra hold him off Kurds and Iraqis on both sides too) , and my point was about that very different and totally new image of masculinity that is rising from the ashes of Syrian culture, almost incidentally (Patronising as hell that observation), which you obviously haven't noticed either. That I think will ultimately have more impact on how men evolve into the the future than all the toxic Radfem generalisations, half truths and absolute BS ever will.

Though I take your point that, in your opinion there is nothing toxic about civil war, in Syria, or in general we will have to agree to disagree.

Oh, and that you are waving around an injured child to try to "win" an argument.

Wrong I have no interest in manipulating false and irrelevant structural wins that mean zero to me to anything (though that offers me significant insight into your own motivation - it is not me deliberately baiting people back with personal attacks). I am not here for personal popularity, nor to "make friends" with mumsnet harpies, just to help them show themselves up up for what they really are and leave some facts among the endless misinformation.

I was using Lass's endless personal spite as an excuse for "waving an injured child around" here, (as pretty much everywhere) in case there was any humanity, conscience and press contacts among the harpies that might actually DO something to get her and half a dozen of so others out of Aleppo before they are dead children, if only to spite me...but I see putting me down is of far greater importance to you and you missed the point.

[VestalVirgin]

As for the obnoxious feck 'em and dump 'ems...I have never come across women who want casual sex with a stranger on a regular basis.

... and you justify prostitution ... how? If you don't even think a woman could want casual sex with attractive men on a regular basis, why do you think society should promote women selling their bodies to punters?

You are aware that that promotes male entitlement to "sex" (actually, to putting their dicks into random strangers, but, details), and creates a class of men who feel entitled to something that, according to your own words, no woman would want, not even with attractive men.

How can you defend it?

[IPityThePontipines]

Assad supporter or making it up on the spur of the moment for pure spite? Could be either, whichever, your "warm fuzzies" are not my main concern in life.

No, I am certainly not an Assad supporter. I was objecting to your patronising and inaccurate description of Syrian people and their culture.

Oh, and that you are waving around an injured child to try to "win" an argument.

[GayeDalton]

Anyway, that's enough attention to idiots making endless personal attacks for attention. If you want me to care what you think you need to have my respect, and the only way to have my respect is to earn it, and spite and toxicity will not cut it.

[GayeDalton]

IPityThePontipines

Assad supporter or making it up on the spur of the moment for pure spite? Could be either, whichever, your "warm fuzzies" are not my main concern in life.

LassWiTheDelicateAir

100% Nasty piece of work who has no interest this issue beyond using it as an excuse to be spiteful

Incidentally, I am a very good person...I should, be considering the effort I have put into that and the things I have sacrificed to it throughout my life...you should try it some time.

[IPityThePontipines]

So that actually through cultures that are still, to an extent, riddled with Wahabism and Sharia and absolutely toxic civil warfare, men are changing shape as human beings.

As a Muslim woman with family in Syria, I'm not really filled with the warm fuzzies by this comment and I also fail to see what relevance it has to the thread.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

That doesn't mean we do not want to get this little girl you think is great to bounce bitching off out of there very, VERY badly

Oh you're back. How surprising. Thought you were too busy saving saving humanity.

I have no idea what the situation in Syria has to do with this thread, beyond your embarrassing attempts at virtue signalling what a good person you think you are. I find your derailment really pretty tasteless.

[FloraFox]

Mattias we're not confused by the "de". We don't agree with your attempt to legitimatise the commodification of women's bodies.

[GayeDalton]

Lass

Well that solved the the question of whether you have empathy or not.

And are you now actually saying you are in Aleppo?

Don't be so stupid! Any fool would know I would just be ISIS bait and a dangerous liability because of my gimp leg!

That doesn't mean we do not want to get this little girl you think is great to bounce bitching off out of there very, VERY badly.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Still think I should put my life on hold to have a childish bitch fest with you? Or would you rather see if you know some journos who could raise hell to get her out? Choice is yours

Odd. You seem to have plenty of time to keep coming back to this thread and promoting prostitution.

And are you now actually saying you are in Aleppo?

[GayeDalton]

Lass

Grow up and get some manners. This rubbish is a waste of my time which is currently shared with getting a badly injured little girl evac'ed from Aleppo. See girl 20 seconds in to the video martyred journalist Khalid Issa dies for 2 weeks ago See 35 seconds in to girl already a patient when Omar Bin Abdul Aziz was hit in an airstrike today www.facebook.com/AleppoAMC/videos/261326544245055/

Still think I should put my life on hold to have a childish bitch fest with you? Or would you rather see if you know some journos who could raise hell to get her out? Choice is yours.

Felascloak

I'm thinking about what you say, on one hand I agree but on the other I think doing the job probably requires a certain level of denial about precisely what you are doing and with who.

Does not compute...not for me anyway...as I have said, I am autistic, for me, a spade is always a bloody shovel...if I started trying to tell myself anything else I would know I was lying and lose faith in myself!

Most of the work I have done in my like has been one to one contracting (the other two were computers and soft furnishings) and I always knew exactly what I was doing and with whom in all three. Maybe normal people feel differently, but I never could.

Sex is not the sacred cow people want to make it out to be. It is a language that can say anything from "You are the other part of myself" to "Hurry it up or I'll charge extra" just as efficiently.

I think to choose to be a prostitute you must also buy into the whole male "need" for sex.

Honestly you don't, you just have to recognise they will pay for it, because when you sell sex (whether through choice or necessity) you are selling sex for money for YOU and barring an option on repeat business you couldn't care less what the guy does or does not need, because it really isn't about them at all.

Most work to live jobs (which is most of the work people do) are pretty much like that.

As for the obnoxious feck 'em and dump 'ems...I have never come across women who want casual sex with a stranger on a regular basis. But there is hope...from the last place you would expect it...

ISIS...there is a counterculture growing in reaction to the crises in Syria and Iraq that paints a macho hero as a man who risks his life to save lives, is not ashamed to cry in public, loves his children and his wife, and treats everybody else's children and wife like gold dust. Soldiers are seen as doing a dirty, but necessary job, like bin men. So that actually through cultures that are still, to an extent, riddled with Wahabism and Sharia and absolutely toxic civil warfare, men are changing shape as human beings.

The next generation in the mid east will be unrecognisable compared to men today. I may just live to see it, you certainly will.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

But the killer is that I have never said sex work was "a job like any other", for one thing I always see it as the self employment it is, and for another I file it in a special category with mortuary work, high rise window cleaning, coal mining, demolition that some people can thrive on and some people could not do with a gun held to the head

Oh please. You are the one who gets worked up about semantics and yet comes out with rubbish like that.

So far as "a job like any other" do you seriously think that "job" only means work carried out by employees?

I'm self employed. If I were asked "what job do I do"? I would not reply " oh I don't have a job, I'm self employed"

I see you are trotting out the ridiculous argument that being a prostitute is not just any old job (or "profession" , to pander to your delusions) but a really special and important one which really special and important and brave people do.

[Felascloak]

I'm thinking about what you say, on one hand I agree but on the other I think doing the job probably requires a certain level of denial about precisely what you are doing and with who.
On one hand I hear that punters are men like any other. But then in this kind of conversation it's always raised that somehow paying for sex is more honest than picking someone up or having a relationship (I've heard men on radio phone ins saying that). And it basically to me boils down to men feeling entitled to sex, either through paying for it or through manipulation of women.
I think a more honest option would be to be upfront (plenty of women are fine with casual sex) or wank.
I think to choose to be a prostitute you must also buy into the whole male "need" for sex.

[GayeDalton]

Felascloak

(In case you were wonder, NO WAY did I have advance warning on "Monty Python's Flying Junta" that kicked off about 5 minutes after I signed off!)

First:
You can't say prostitution is a valid employment choice for women, like any other, then complain that legislation might reduce demand and that's unfair on prostitutes who have no choice in their employment.

Of course you can, in fact it would be a pretty obvious thing to say about ANY "work to live" in the current economic climate. A lot of people have taken jobs that they hate with EVERY FIBRE OF THEIR BEING, out of the same desperation that drives a lot of sex workers. But there is actually another level whereby destroying the market sex workers depend on will thrust some women who chose sex work freely into the position of having no options in the current climate.

But the killer is that I have never said sex work was "a job like any other", for one thing I always see it as the self employment it is, and for another I file it in a special category with mortuary work, high rise window cleaning, coal mining, demolition that some people can thrive on and some people could not do with a gun held to the head.

how does a society tackle the night club culture that you describe if at the same time it indicates its ok for men to purchase sex?

Easy...the two attitudes are diametrically opposite. Sex work clients do not feel "entitled to sex" (that is a complete myth that was cooked up from whole nonsense) that is why they accept that they must pay for it. (Such comments on "the invisible men" that are not helpfully written for them by abolitionists, are written by what the Irish would term a small group of gobshites, they are a tiny minority, and they are always with us, pretty much everywhere in some form. For some of them reviews like that ARE a fetish, remember, fetish is ALWAYS about barriers and depersonalisation...holding at arm's length, not close.).

For the nightclub predators to give ANYTHING (including a drink) in return for the sex they plan to take is a small failure, and not the objective at all.

I was always stunned by how much different my clients were to the feck 'em and dump 'em brigade. A lot of them actually DO fixate on developing a real relationship and have to be discouraged, but you do come out of sex work absolutely spoiled for men that want to relate to you and it takes some adjusting to "feck 'em and dump 'em".

I used go out clubbing after I left sex work, and every time some guy homed in on me I wound up thinking "I could have more respect, better conversation AND get paid for it down the road".

If a man want impersonal sex that (let's be real) women seldom want, I believe he OUGHT to find a sex worker and pay for it. That way everybody gets something out of it.

Sadly I don't think there is much you can do about the feck 'em and dump 'em brigade until at least after somebody cures the racism, football hooliganism and dangerous driving they also like to express themselves through.

You learn a LOT about men as a sex worker, and real feminists should be desperate to pick our brains on that instead of listening to unrelieved BS and moral panic.

[Felascloak]

gaye how does a society tackle the night club culture that you describe if at the same time it indicates its ok for men to purchase sex? It's all part of the same thing - that some men believe they are entitled to sex. I think tackling prostitution is part of a bigger picture about tackling misogyny and male sexual entitlement in society generally.
Yes changing attitudes will decrease demand for prostitutes business. But in my opinion that's a good thing.
You can't have this argument both ways. You can't say prostitution is a valid employment choice for women, like any other, then complain that legislation might reduce demand and that's unfair on prostitutes who have no choice in their employment.

[GayeDalton]

Felascloak

I get fed up of all the focus being on the women. In my view its mens attitudes that are the problem and yet it's kind of brushed under the carpet.

But the women are the only parties that count, because, at best, sex work is their livelihood, the way they pay bills, at worst it is their last lifeline...for men it is just entertainment.

Clients would be perfectly ok without sex workers...but sex workers would be in serious trouble without clients.

Now there is a tectonic shift for you...but it's true, sex workers need clients more than clients need them with ridiculously few exceptions.

Whichever direction you attack the sex industry from you are only going to hurt the sex workers in any serious way...so why attack it at all?

If a guy is obnoxious in some way he is going to be obnoxious whether he can pay a sex worker or not.

Commodification? Am I the only person who has ever been to a night club? Hordes of young men turn out JUST to use a woman for a one night stand that she would never want if it was explained honestly. THAT is degrading and traumatic...and too many guys playing feck 'em and dump 'em in succession nearly drove me to suicide more than once...long before I was ever a sex worker.

You think "sending a message" that it is wrong to pay for sex will stop 'em seeing women as fecktoys? Why? They think it's wrong to pay for sex too...in a different way you won't like.

[Felascloak]

matthias thanks for the wall of text. It proves my point - NZ regulations for prostitutes are considerably more relaxed than UK regulations for professionals coming into contact with body fluid. As usual women can have some extra risk for mens rights to sex. That's the whole crux of the problrm

[Felascloak]

gaye it's totally understandable how you view clients. It was not aimed at you but at matthias and his "having sex" comments - punters are a massive part of prostitution and I get fed up of all the focus being on the women. In my view its mens attitudes that are the problem and yet it's kind of brushed under the carpet.

[GayeDalton]

Anyway...Aleppo is under full siege, with things being thrown from helicopters at innocent children that I would not throw at Julie Bindel so I am all out of time for harpy baiting.

(In case you are wondering Syria is riddled with citizen journalists that a handful of brave, supersmart people have trained to world class standards, anything, anyone can do to amplify those voices may save lives.)

Hope y'all enjoyed it, you sure as heck showed yourselves up for what you are over and over...

You have the floor Laura Lee.

Bye

[MatthiasLehmann]

Re: Felascloak

“I notice the deliberate omission of paying for sex there.”

I wrote above that decriminalising sex work does not mean “one believes men are entitled to buy sex from women”. How is that omitting people who are paying for sex? Loud and clear: nobody is entitled to buy sex. People should only be able to pay someone for sex who consents to being paid for sex.

“what about health and safety legislation?”

Health and safety requirements

Operators of businesses of prostitution must adopt and promote safer sex practices

(1) Every operator of a business of prostitution must—

(a) take all reasonable steps to ensure that no commercial sexual services are provided by a sex worker unless a prophylactic sheath or other appropriate barrier is used if those services involve vaginal, anal, or oral penetration or another activity with a similar or greater risk of acquiring or transmitting sexually transmissible infections; and

(b) take all reasonable steps to give health information (whether oral or written) to sex workers and clients; and

(c) if the person operates a brothel, display health information prominently in that brothel; and

(d) not state or imply that a medical examination of a sex worker means the sex worker is not infected, or likely to be infected, with a sexually transmissible infection; and

(e) take all other reasonable steps to minimise the risk of sex workers or clients acquiring or transmitting sexually transmissible infections.

(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $10,000. (3) The obligations in this section apply only in relation to commercial sexual services provided for the business and to sex workers and clients in connection with those services. (4) In this section, health information means information on safer sex practices and on services for the prevention and treatment of sexually transmissible infections. Section 8(2): amended, on 1 July 2013, by section 413 of the Criminal Procedure Act 2011 (2011 No 81).

Source: New Zealand Prostitution Reforms Act of 2003 www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2003/0028/latest/DLM197853.html?search=sw_096be8ed812df204_health_25_se&p=1&sr=2

[GayeDalton]

Felascloak
I notice the deliberate omission of paying for sex there. All your arguments in fact totally omit punters

NB Laura Lee and I really do not talk, yet neither of us talk about the clients, funny that, but there is a reason for it, in work terms, we do not see the clients as people. I usually refer to them as "the crop" to wind them up while I wake Radfems up to reality, but, in truth, we see them more as "tasks", as a result they are genuinely not a big part of our thinking, ever, in any context.

Let's lose the silly reasons why people object to them. You have no idea how many sex work clients you pass in the street, share table in crowded cafe with, etc and so on. But there is one (objective - no fingernails and handbags involved) problem with what Laura Lee is saying in terms of decriminalisation, and it need to be addressed before it grows into an elephant in the room

I imagine my mother earned about the same money at Laura Lee's age, so here is the real question, if my mother could be prevented from storing boxes of harmless analglypta in her garage by a bitchy neighbour reporting her, why should Laura Lee work in residential premises with impunity?

It must be looked at for decriminalisation to take place.

[GayeDalton]

MassiveStrumpet

I don't really share Gaye's view that the most vulnerable ought to be able to fall back on sex work because the system has failed them.

Really? What would you rather they do? Beg on the streets? Be institutionalised as perpetual children? Commit suicide? Do you have another suggestion that a vulnerable person RIGHT NOW can have in place and solving problems by midnight?

Matthias is right about my thinking in one very big way, but he missed a nuance. There are some, totally innocent, decent, vulnerable people the system can never be geared to, and I am too much a part of that to be able to deny it to myself to feel warm and fuzzy. For some of those, sex work is the last hope they have. You can solve their problems in your own mind by denying them, but they cannot.