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Guest post: Video games and misogyny - should we be worried?

222 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 29/08/2014 16:16

As a game reviewer, I play a lot of video games: everything from First Person Shooters to gentle puzzles; from role-playing adventures to saving the princess. Games are the interactive stories of the 21st century, shaping our culture much as film did in the 20th Century. I've met countless kind, considerate, smart and genuine people through gaming who have gone out of their way to help me. I want to be proud to call myself a member of this community.

Alas: there is a snag. For every decent person in the gaming industry, there are at least a dozen others who seem committed to making us all look like misogynistic sociopaths.

In the last couple of weeks, the media's gaze has been focused on a new ‘mod’ – an alteration to a game’s code in order to make it operate in a different way from the original version - that's been added to the ever-controversial Grand Theft Auto 5. Usually, mods are pretty harmless - they can be anything from bug fixes to enabling flying limousines - but GTA's 'rape mod', a user-created addition to the online version of the game, allows players to ‘rape’ other characters. These avatars belong to other players, and once the ‘rapist’ begins, the ‘raped’ player is powerless to move or continue play until the act is completed. It is above and beyond even the graphic violence Rockstar include in the game, and it is humiliating – particularly as videos of the act are often posted on YouTube. Many players have complained to Rockstar's Reddit page, saying that they feel personally violated by the acts. These reports also indicate that the majority of players being targeted are - would you believe it? - female.

For the uninitiated, in GTA 5, the playable characters are exclusively male. After having sex with a prostitute, a player is able to either leave, or kill the prostitute and get their money back. Apart from these prostitutes, there are few female characters in the game's storyline.

The rape mod is only the most recent example of misogyny in gaming; it permeates most corners of the industry. Games developer Zoe Quinn received rave reviews for her game Depression Quest, which tackles the difficult issues surrounding depression and illustrates them in a way that can help both suffers and carers. Rather than celebrating her success, she has been fending off a torrent of ‘slut shaming’, after rumours that she had slept with reviewers flooded gaming forums. Her personal details have been made available on the internet, alleged nude photos of her were stolen from private servers, and her family have been the recipients of rude and abusive phone calls.

In the trailer for the , meanwhile, Lara Croft is taken captive by scavengers on a desert island – and appears to narrowly escape being sexual assaulted. In the game, this scene is interactive, with the players having to use both brute force and intelligence to escape from their captors. If the player does not succeed in escaping, then Lara is killed, and the player must start again.

Would this scene have attracted as much attention if it had been in a novel or TV series? Probably not. But maybe that's the problem. We're not talking about films, categorised as 18 because the viewer will sit in the cinema and see a bit of sex and violence. Instead, players of these games are interacting with the other characters; they are making choices in the real world that they can see reflected in their virtual one. Those GTA users are choosing to kill the prostitute, rather than passively watching it happen on a screen. It may only be the click of a button, but it’s a wilful act.

A recent Canadian study into the behaviour of 100 13- and 14-year-olds found that over-exposure to violent games weakened empathy for others. Of course, concerns over too much screen-time are old hat – and there’s even evidence to suggest that playing video games for an hour a day can be good for children - but surely, when that screen time is spent on interactive games that routinely feature sex and violence, it’s a whole lot more sinister.

There is some hope on the horizon. There are some amazing people out there trying to make a difference. Pixelles, a Canadian online community, runs free workshops and showcases to encourage women to develop more games. Her Interactive, Purple Moon and many other games development companies are openly courting female developers. We’ve also got Feminist Frequency, a popular YouTube channel dedicated to looking at gender equality across all platforms of the gaming industry.

And there are a growing number of people in gaming who don’t want to put up with this anymore. The people who made that rape mod aren't true gamers – gamers are people that want to build a community of friends where they can play and explore peacefully and equally. So I will reclaim the word gamer, because we’re not all misogynistic internet gremlins – some of us girls just wanna have fun.

OP posts:
WinifredTheLostDenver · 09/09/2014 21:24

Anita is a woman. No need for the him/her/it stance.

She asked for funding, explained what it was for, people gave her more than she asked for, she did what she said she would with the money. That's not dirty money.

This blog post is about acts of violence against women in games. At no point does it say there aren't acts of violence against men, cars, chickens, whatever. It's discussing a particular aspect of some games.

HTH.

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 22:21

I haven't been rude at all, I have simply pointed out the fallacies, lies and illegitimacies of your 'arguments'. Your posts indicate that you do not like being corrected by a woman, and have trouble finding a woman's argument legitimate, let alone reasonable and correct. Have a think about that, and let us know if you need references to a good psychologist. I am sure that there are many women here who can give you a list of psychs who are logical and rational to help you with your mindset. And furthermore, if you don't like being called out on your lies, then its simple - don't post here.

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 22:37

And furthermore, if you think that a woman pointing out where you have gone wrong is 'rude', then you really, really need to recalibrate your thinking about women.

wazedak · 10/09/2014 02:14

"she did what she said she would with the money. "

I doubt what she is doing costs any money at all. So what is she doing with all that money? Cars? Clothes? Jewellery?

"This blog post is about acts of violence against women in games. At no point does it say there aren't acts of violence against men"

Yet there is ~10000000x more violence against male characters in games than female characters.

What exactly do you propose for games like GTA? Should female characters be left out completely? Or should they be immortal and be unable to be killed meaning the player could only kill male characters? Or should the GTA games be banned outright?

What do you want?

scallopsrgreat · 10/09/2014 09:44

Why are you not worried about the 10000000x more violence against male characters in games than female characters. And why can't you leave us to discuss an area that worries us?

"I doubt what she is doing costs any money at all. So what is she doing with all that money? Cars? Clothes? Jewellery?" Hah! No misogyny there then!

Bifauxnen · 10/09/2014 10:51

How about more equal representations of women characters that span the same broad spectrum as the many many men characters? Why isn't that one of your options?

Just for comparison, (and a bit of a laugh) this right here (tropes vs men) is what a scam kickstarter looks like.

WinifredTheLostDenver · 10/09/2014 11:16

Did you give Anita money? Why are you so worried?

Zazzles007 · 10/09/2014 11:17

Bahahahahaha!!!!! Thanks Bifauxnen I recall reading somewhere on a gaming page that a rival Kickstarter had been put forward, and knew that they had raised nowhere near the $160K that Anita had raised. They haven't got the support behind them because people can see how irrational their 'cause' is. No one wants to support an idea that has come about as a backlash to Anita's truly innovative and creative concept for her video logs. Let that be a lesson to them.

On the other hand I am absolutely riveted to see what this rival Kickstart group manages to put together, if and when they are able to get their arses in gear. Although I have to say, I have as much faith that they can put together any sort of product that isn't pure conjecture, bullshit and hogwash. They have as much chance of putting together a decent (let alone, well researched, well scripted, with high production values) vblog as I have of being the next President of the US!

TerrariaMum · 10/09/2014 11:18

I actually agree with VFXDad in that the games people seem to be most concerned about are console games and I see the problems in those and agree that they exist.

However, I would argue that there are plenty of games which do not feature excessive violence or misogyny in them on sites like Steam or Good Old Games. These are for the PC and I imagine some would discount many of them as not real games.

Playing 3D games makes me nauseous due to a lack of peripheral vision in my left eye so I was unable to play a lovely female protagonist (and antagonist) game like Portal . I love gaming so I've had to do research to find games I can play.

I've recently found a developer called Artifex Mundi which I love. As I said above, many would not consider the games made by them to be real games because they are point and click adventures with hidden objects and puzzles. In addition, their storylines always feature a female protagonist from a private investigator to a museum curator rescuing her daughter.

There is also a recent beautiful game called Lilly Looking Through which features a little girl trying to rescue her brother. I have played this with my daughter several times.

I suppose I think the prevalence of misogyny in gaming depends really upon what you include in the category of games.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 10/09/2014 12:11

Oh I love PC indie games. However, those big console titles like GTA and Assassin's Creed are incredibly popular and widely played, that's why we talk about them.

VFXdad · 10/09/2014 14:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Zazzles007 · 10/09/2014 14:52

I don't agree that misogyny is endemic in the games industry though.

That's because it is endemic globally.

TerrariaMum · 10/09/2014 15:03

I think we need to talk about PC indie games more than we do because they could be popular and widely played if more people knew about them. People might then think gaming is more accessible. I don't mean as a replacement to the conversation about Assassin's Creed or GTA but in addition to it.

VFXdad · 10/09/2014 15:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TerrariaMum · 10/09/2014 15:43

I definitely think they are more accessible. DD likes to play Terraria (sandbox similar to Minecraft) on my tab.

I'm only suggesting we increase what's already happening. Could you link to that article please? I think it is definitely relevant to this conversation.

VFXdad · 10/09/2014 15:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

buwegevove · 15/09/2014 14:03

It actually happened to me last night while playing GTA5 online. Me and another couple of players completed one of the "survival" jobs you can play together then all of a sudden one started hip-thrusting the air (he wasn't near me or anyone else but he was kindof pointing in my direction).

Was he just hip-thrusting to celebrate completing the job, or am I now a "virtual rape victim"?

buwegevove · 15/09/2014 14:05

From the OP:
"And there are a growing number of people in gaming who don’t want to put up with this anymore."

I don't get it. If hip thrusting the air is so offensive what is one doing playing a game like GTA in the first place when it is nothing but bloody brutal violence from start to finish?

TheSameBoat · 16/09/2014 09:47

"If hip thrusting the air is so offensive"

Come on that's not what this is about. Either you know that and you're being incredibly obtuse or you haven't understood the article.

Zazzles007 · 17/09/2014 04:02

Why do these posters come into FWR and deliberately or unconsciously miss the point of the thread? Are they unable to read and write for for comprehension? Geeze, a second missed the point of the fucking thread! RTFFuckingT.

nooka · 17/09/2014 05:50

We are a big gaming family, especially dh who has a very large collection. He recently watched the Anita Sarkeesian videos and we've had quite a discussion about them. He thought some of her examples were wrong (e.g. Fable 2 seemed a pretty odd choice) but overall that she made some very strong points. He is already pretty sensitive to this sort of stuff anyway (for example he was very very angry about how the character Samus in Metroid Other M had been subverted from powerful woman into vulnerable little girl and he was pretty pissed off with the latest Lara Croft too, again an unusual powerful female protagonist becoming a bit crap in a newer incarnation.

My favourite game is Monster Hunter and I've come across some irritating crap on the multi-player side, especially when using the mike likewise ds picked up on some very dodgy attitudes when he was a big X-Box player (he's moved over to the PC now). Generally we all give as good as we get and then dump the player (ds has also reported) but it's worrying when you see a license being given not just to misogyny, but also homophobia and racism.

Zazzles007 · 17/09/2014 06:49

he was pretty pissed off with the latest Lara Croft too

Me too, Nooka. I am only at the beginning of the newest Tomb Raider, but the developers have infantilised her so much! It makes me wonder if that's how men really see women - and I despair if it is.

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