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Guest post: Video games and misogyny - should we be worried?

222 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 29/08/2014 16:16

As a game reviewer, I play a lot of video games: everything from First Person Shooters to gentle puzzles; from role-playing adventures to saving the princess. Games are the interactive stories of the 21st century, shaping our culture much as film did in the 20th Century. I've met countless kind, considerate, smart and genuine people through gaming who have gone out of their way to help me. I want to be proud to call myself a member of this community.

Alas: there is a snag. For every decent person in the gaming industry, there are at least a dozen others who seem committed to making us all look like misogynistic sociopaths.

In the last couple of weeks, the media's gaze has been focused on a new ‘mod’ – an alteration to a game’s code in order to make it operate in a different way from the original version - that's been added to the ever-controversial Grand Theft Auto 5. Usually, mods are pretty harmless - they can be anything from bug fixes to enabling flying limousines - but GTA's 'rape mod', a user-created addition to the online version of the game, allows players to ‘rape’ other characters. These avatars belong to other players, and once the ‘rapist’ begins, the ‘raped’ player is powerless to move or continue play until the act is completed. It is above and beyond even the graphic violence Rockstar include in the game, and it is humiliating – particularly as videos of the act are often posted on YouTube. Many players have complained to Rockstar's Reddit page, saying that they feel personally violated by the acts. These reports also indicate that the majority of players being targeted are - would you believe it? - female.

For the uninitiated, in GTA 5, the playable characters are exclusively male. After having sex with a prostitute, a player is able to either leave, or kill the prostitute and get their money back. Apart from these prostitutes, there are few female characters in the game's storyline.

The rape mod is only the most recent example of misogyny in gaming; it permeates most corners of the industry. Games developer Zoe Quinn received rave reviews for her game Depression Quest, which tackles the difficult issues surrounding depression and illustrates them in a way that can help both suffers and carers. Rather than celebrating her success, she has been fending off a torrent of ‘slut shaming’, after rumours that she had slept with reviewers flooded gaming forums. Her personal details have been made available on the internet, alleged nude photos of her were stolen from private servers, and her family have been the recipients of rude and abusive phone calls.

In the trailer for the , meanwhile, Lara Croft is taken captive by scavengers on a desert island – and appears to narrowly escape being sexual assaulted. In the game, this scene is interactive, with the players having to use both brute force and intelligence to escape from their captors. If the player does not succeed in escaping, then Lara is killed, and the player must start again.

Would this scene have attracted as much attention if it had been in a novel or TV series? Probably not. But maybe that's the problem. We're not talking about films, categorised as 18 because the viewer will sit in the cinema and see a bit of sex and violence. Instead, players of these games are interacting with the other characters; they are making choices in the real world that they can see reflected in their virtual one. Those GTA users are choosing to kill the prostitute, rather than passively watching it happen on a screen. It may only be the click of a button, but it’s a wilful act.

A recent Canadian study into the behaviour of 100 13- and 14-year-olds found that over-exposure to violent games weakened empathy for others. Of course, concerns over too much screen-time are old hat – and there’s even evidence to suggest that playing video games for an hour a day can be good for children - but surely, when that screen time is spent on interactive games that routinely feature sex and violence, it’s a whole lot more sinister.

There is some hope on the horizon. There are some amazing people out there trying to make a difference. Pixelles, a Canadian online community, runs free workshops and showcases to encourage women to develop more games. Her Interactive, Purple Moon and many other games development companies are openly courting female developers. We’ve also got Feminist Frequency, a popular YouTube channel dedicated to looking at gender equality across all platforms of the gaming industry.

And there are a growing number of people in gaming who don’t want to put up with this anymore. The people who made that rape mod aren't true gamers – gamers are people that want to build a community of friends where they can play and explore peacefully and equally. So I will reclaim the word gamer, because we’re not all misogynistic internet gremlins – some of us girls just wanna have fun.

OP posts:
Dervel · 08/09/2014 18:37

It is a testament to her position that it is she who comes under her attack and not her actual argument.

Dervel · 08/09/2014 18:57

Actually in an attempt to expand this discussion beyond character assassinations. I see two main areas to improve.

First is the community, gaming should be a haven for where we are progressing, not from where we have come. Anyone, although for the purposes of this thread let's focus on women, should be able to do so in a welcoming environment, not in a bigoted white, straight and male boys club. Microsoft/Sony should should come down on inappropriate behavior like a tonne of bricks.

Secondly letting underage children play inappropriate software should be considered a form of abuse/neglect..

BriarRainbowshimmer · 08/09/2014 19:13

Microsoft/Sony should should come down on inappropriate behavior like a tonne of bricks.

Agree. Same with gaming news sites and forums.
It kills joy and enthusiasm to some interesting news about a new game and the discussion is full of random bigotry.
The problem is of course that the moderators themselves are often sexist, homophobic etc men.

Dervel · 08/09/2014 20:04

Good blog on that very subject Briar:

www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-06-18-editors-blog-i-am-sexist

WinifredTheLostDenver · 08/09/2014 20:21

Thanks Dervel, that is interesting.

Zazzles007 · 08/09/2014 22:31

Of the games listed above, I have played to completion:

Assassin's Creed I
Assassin's Creed II
Assassin's Creed III
Assassin's Creed Revelations
Bioshock
Bioshock 2
Dishonored
Dragon Age: Origins
Far Cry 3
L.A. Noire

I have also completed 40-something other games which I have not listed. I have a lot of time on my hands (atm, this looks to be changing very shortly), and am insulted by the stereotype that "women aren't serious gamers" which has been alluded to on this thread. I have completed around 50-something games in about a 2 3/4 year time frame

The clearly misogynistic and MRA-ish posts on this thread are a testament to what I posted on a another thread: These men have mommy issues, as the psychology behind misogyny stems from a feeling that they weren't loved enough by their mother. They turn this feeling into an "I hate all women" ethos and way of living. This mode of thinking is irrational and is not a positive value for them to live by. It essentially paints men as helpless victims who need to be taken care of and molly-coddled, whilst raging against a group who are not responsible for their hurts. To those misogynistic posts - please find a good and rational psychologist to discuss the short-comings in your life.

claireredfield · 09/09/2014 10:41

And Zazzles from playing those games you listed, you would know that none of them are sexist or out of context and realise what Anita is doing is wrong. And you are partly right that men don't need molly coddling and hence don't need censorship in video games Wink

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 10:59

Nope in fact, I know that by playing them, they all have sexist and misogynistic elements in them. Not only that the new Tomb Raider reboot which you hold up as having a strong female protagonists, infantilises Lara Croft in the extreme. I would theorise that since you liked that game so much, you prefer women to be weak and to be rescued by men, just as your misogynistic posts have indicated Wink.

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 11:09

And you are partly right that men don't need molly coddling and hence don't need censorship in video games

Err, this doesn't even make any sense in relation to what I have written in my post. I would suggest that you do a course in reading for comprehension, and a creative writing course to help your write clearer. It is your responsibility to express yourself clearly, not my responsibility to understand something that does not make any sense.

Posts which indicate misogyny also indicate that the poster is in need of counseling. The little boy in you clearly feels that mommy didn't love him enough, and so wages an all out war against all women in order to 'punish' them for crimes which they did not commit. It is a shame that your irrationality does not let you see the fallacy of thinking like this. The little boy in you needs love, compassion, sympathy, empathy and understanding - which are all things that men are socialised to reject.

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 11:16

Also your assertions about Anita Sarkeesian have no basis in reality. Only in an MRA/misogynistic view of the world would you find anyone who agrees with you. You make preposterous claims about her because you project your own behaviour onto her. Your claims that she is a liar, not honest, that no one likes her etc etc, are completely untrue. YOUR POSTS indicate lies, dishonesty, stretching the truth, a lack of integrity, and a complete inability to see reality.

WinifredTheLostDenver · 09/09/2014 11:19

Well, quite. The people who have money to Anita were presumably NOT diametrically opposed to her hypothesis (unlike certain posters here) and therefore were unlikely to be this mythical pissed off as stated.

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 11:24

That's exactly right Winifred. Anita asked for $6000, a FACT that the MRA/misogynists completely gloss over. Her backers were so incensed at the abuse that she was receiving that they kept on giving her money, even when her Kickstart went, well, well, well beyond what she was aiming for. The FACT that MRA/misogynists deliberately omit this part of the story is LIES BY OMISSION.

(Apologies there is only one person I am shouting at)

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 11:27

And these MRA/misogynists are so unable to see reality, that they can't see the part they have played in making Anita so famous. If they hadn't made rape and death threats to her, she would still be relatively unknown. And NO if you do something as imbecilic as making a RAPE/DEATH THREAT then YOU DESERVE to be REPORTED TO THE AUTHORITIES.

Dervel · 09/09/2014 11:31

I am a little confused why there seems to be a need to tear strips off Anita. If you actually watch her videos she isn't advocating the banning of any games. She even goes to great lengths to acknowledge that just because a sexist trope appears does not mean a game is not an enjoyable piece of artistic interactive media.

All she is doing is examining them from a feminist critical analyst's perspective. In fact she even highlights this going in.

You shouldn't be taking this quite so personally, film, tv and other forms of entertainment are just as bad. In fact you should take it as a sign of how far gaming has come that it's attracting this sort of analysis.

I'm not saying agree with Anita wholesale, but I invite you to try to understand the wider context from which she's coming from (feminism), and actually she is pretty considered and reasonable imo.

WinifredTheLostDenver · 09/09/2014 11:34

It's not like Anita said she was raising money to rescue squirrels and then stole it for Evil Feminist Analysis!

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 11:39

...raising money to rescue squirrels and then stole it for Evil Feminist Analysis!

Omg, that made me laugh!

I agree with you Dervel, if you watch her videos with any objectivity (which MRAs/misogynists are completely unable to do), she mainly says "This is the scene, and this is what is happening" - ie she DESCRIBES something. Nowhere am I seeing a movie critic or tv critic being panned for simply saying "This is what happen in the [thing] that I was watching". These MISOGYNERDS really need to get a grip and call a Dr for a referral to a counsellor if they can't handle that. "Wahhh the big bad meanie described what was happening in my favourite game from a feminist perspective!!!!!!!!!!"

Dervel · 09/09/2014 11:52

I'm not entirely sure that each and every one of her detractors are proper card carrying misogynists. Gamers can be quite defensive as gaming is only comparatively mainstream, so it won't take much for a lot of us to sally forth to come to its defense.

Unfortunately we're also coming up against the brick wall of male privilege, whose desire to protect something they are passionate about is putting the blinkers on to what feminism is actually about. Which is a microcosm of wider society really.

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 11:58

No, the MRA/Misogyny thing is really for the trolls that FWR attracts that have been posting on this and other threads.

Dervel · 09/09/2014 12:02

I'm not necessarily talking about individual posters on this thread. Who seem to just obscure meaningful discussion.

Zazzles007 · 09/09/2014 12:07

No I realise that. I am sure that there are people who are able to make a reasoned argument in where they disagree with Anita, it just hasn't been on this thread. And no, of course not all those who disagree with her are MRA's or misogynists, but there have been a number of misogynistic posts on this thread with the most outrageous propaganda against Anita that I have ever read.

claireredfield · 09/09/2014 13:22

There's no need to be rude Zazzles007 with those personal attacks, that kind of approach just shows a weakness in your argument. I think you should take note of Dervel who makes the point that not every one of Anita's detractors are card carrying misogynists. Crying MRA/ misogynist is rather wide of the mark, when I am coming in defence of the gamer/ game manufacturer. I don't really want to get involved with the other feminist threads on this forum if i am honest, so please don't tar me with the same brush as that Viral poster up thread.

Anyway yes some of those games do contain the odd misogynistic scene, and violent acts against women, however they are tiny aspects of the game and are in context of the era the games are set in. Assassin Creed for example where Desmond goes back in time to the 11th and 15th centuries to re-enact the genetic memories of his ancestors. Yeah there are Courtesans that can be hired to assist you remain stealth but are in context for that era and add an interesting option to the stealth game play. I could make similar arguments with the other games on that list too.

Dervel if it was intentional or not, Anita is portraying these games in a bad light and crying political correctness. Although she may not want censorship herself, it will no doubt be used by others as evidence to call for censorship of such games. This could have an affect on creativity, where we could left with soulless, bland games for the sake of not offending a few people. That is my main concern and where I am coming from.

Dervel · 09/09/2014 15:24

claireredfield Anita Sarkeesian's work could also be used as a springboard to fewer soulless bland female characters appearing in gaming too. This is the ultimate thrust of her argument that female characters are little more than set dressing, relegated to prizes to be "won", or overly sexualized for the titilation of male gamers. I think challenging the games industry to do better is her goal and not banning or censoring things.

The problem is I can trott out several well written female characters in gaming, but that still doesn't address the trend that most videogame protagonists are overwhelmingly male. In addition you can speak on historical settings authenticity etc, but ultimately all this boils down to do you think gaming as a medium is fair to both women and female characterization? If so why?

If people want to extrapolate from her work and argue censorship argue with them as they will most likely be misquoting her and not really understanding her position.

VFXdad · 09/09/2014 17:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VFXdad · 09/09/2014 18:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

wazedak · 09/09/2014 21:07

"Anita Sarkeesian's work "

What "work"? As has been pointed out she takes and uses other people's work without their consent. And the tropes she mentions are lifted straight from the Tvtropes website. Even with all her dirty money she is not contributing anything new.

"they can't see the part they have played in making Anita so famous."

I'd hardly call Antia a celebrity. I doubt many have heard of him/her/it outside of some feminist or gaming communities.

One more point- Anita has said herself she isn't a gamer and doesn't play the games she mentions.

"some of those games do contain violent acts against women"

And how many violence acts against men? In GTA5 freeplay mode you can kill anyone m or f (and killing anyone in freeplay is entirely optional), but in the story mode you are required to complete missions which may involve killing people (and in one particular mission- torture). What gender are the characters which the player is required to kill to progress through the game?

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