Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Guest posts

Guest post: Video games and misogyny - should we be worried?

222 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 29/08/2014 16:16

As a game reviewer, I play a lot of video games: everything from First Person Shooters to gentle puzzles; from role-playing adventures to saving the princess. Games are the interactive stories of the 21st century, shaping our culture much as film did in the 20th Century. I've met countless kind, considerate, smart and genuine people through gaming who have gone out of their way to help me. I want to be proud to call myself a member of this community.

Alas: there is a snag. For every decent person in the gaming industry, there are at least a dozen others who seem committed to making us all look like misogynistic sociopaths.

In the last couple of weeks, the media's gaze has been focused on a new ‘mod’ – an alteration to a game’s code in order to make it operate in a different way from the original version - that's been added to the ever-controversial Grand Theft Auto 5. Usually, mods are pretty harmless - they can be anything from bug fixes to enabling flying limousines - but GTA's 'rape mod', a user-created addition to the online version of the game, allows players to ‘rape’ other characters. These avatars belong to other players, and once the ‘rapist’ begins, the ‘raped’ player is powerless to move or continue play until the act is completed. It is above and beyond even the graphic violence Rockstar include in the game, and it is humiliating – particularly as videos of the act are often posted on YouTube. Many players have complained to Rockstar's Reddit page, saying that they feel personally violated by the acts. These reports also indicate that the majority of players being targeted are - would you believe it? - female.

For the uninitiated, in GTA 5, the playable characters are exclusively male. After having sex with a prostitute, a player is able to either leave, or kill the prostitute and get their money back. Apart from these prostitutes, there are few female characters in the game's storyline.

The rape mod is only the most recent example of misogyny in gaming; it permeates most corners of the industry. Games developer Zoe Quinn received rave reviews for her game Depression Quest, which tackles the difficult issues surrounding depression and illustrates them in a way that can help both suffers and carers. Rather than celebrating her success, she has been fending off a torrent of ‘slut shaming’, after rumours that she had slept with reviewers flooded gaming forums. Her personal details have been made available on the internet, alleged nude photos of her were stolen from private servers, and her family have been the recipients of rude and abusive phone calls.

In the trailer for the , meanwhile, Lara Croft is taken captive by scavengers on a desert island – and appears to narrowly escape being sexual assaulted. In the game, this scene is interactive, with the players having to use both brute force and intelligence to escape from their captors. If the player does not succeed in escaping, then Lara is killed, and the player must start again.

Would this scene have attracted as much attention if it had been in a novel or TV series? Probably not. But maybe that's the problem. We're not talking about films, categorised as 18 because the viewer will sit in the cinema and see a bit of sex and violence. Instead, players of these games are interacting with the other characters; they are making choices in the real world that they can see reflected in their virtual one. Those GTA users are choosing to kill the prostitute, rather than passively watching it happen on a screen. It may only be the click of a button, but it’s a wilful act.

A recent Canadian study into the behaviour of 100 13- and 14-year-olds found that over-exposure to violent games weakened empathy for others. Of course, concerns over too much screen-time are old hat – and there’s even evidence to suggest that playing video games for an hour a day can be good for children - but surely, when that screen time is spent on interactive games that routinely feature sex and violence, it’s a whole lot more sinister.

There is some hope on the horizon. There are some amazing people out there trying to make a difference. Pixelles, a Canadian online community, runs free workshops and showcases to encourage women to develop more games. Her Interactive, Purple Moon and many other games development companies are openly courting female developers. We’ve also got Feminist Frequency, a popular YouTube channel dedicated to looking at gender equality across all platforms of the gaming industry.

And there are a growing number of people in gaming who don’t want to put up with this anymore. The people who made that rape mod aren't true gamers – gamers are people that want to build a community of friends where they can play and explore peacefully and equally. So I will reclaim the word gamer, because we’re not all misogynistic internet gremlins – some of us girls just wanna have fun.

OP posts:
ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 31/08/2014 13:54

That's awful zazzles.

ludapasir · 31/08/2014 21:37

"rape mod"

oh you mean the mod that allows a digital pixelated clothed avatar to dry humping another digital pixelated clothed avatar? There is no penis, no penetration and the 2 avatars don't even make contact.

And what about all the digital murder and violence in GTA5? How come none of you are bothered by that?

"in GTA 5, the playable characters are exclusively male. After having sex with a prostitute, a player is able to either leave, or kill the prostitute and get their money back. "

In GTA5 online the player can choose gender. And prostitutes in the GTA series have been around since GTA3 which was over 10 years ago. Have you only just found out?

And as someone else pointed out you can kill anyone in the game, and to progress the storyline the player is not required to kill or even interact with any of the game's prostitutes at all.

"How far removed from violent pornography is GTA 5?"

Are you for real?

"This from Anita Sarkeesian"

That name is familiar... oh yeah wasn't she the one who asked for thousands and thousands in donation money for some project, and when she got the money all she churned out was a bunch of youtube videos which would have cost practically zero to make?

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 31/08/2014 21:39

Ludapasir, if someone blogs about motor neurone disease, do you ask them why they aren't blogging about cancer?

It's possible to be concerned about more than one thing at once, y'know.

atticusclaw · 01/09/2014 10:40

Ludapasir words fail me.

The fact is that there are children who play these games. They shouldn't and their parents should be ashamed but some adults (my own DSis included) seem to think its cool to let their DCs play the game and that they are therefore the fun cool parents. So what if there's no penis seen and no penetration visible, the player choses to rape another character. That is enough in itself even if you saw nothing at all.

Horrendous and makes me scared for my DCs growing up in a world where such things are becoming normalised.

MummyIsMyFavouriteName · 01/09/2014 11:38

I think most games are vile. A few years ago, our family friends bought their DS (then aged about 12) and new game that had blood and guts hit the screen when you killed someone. I was horrified. And now finding out that there is a rape mod makes me so was angry and disgusted. How can we get through to people that sexual assault is uncategorically wrong when it's allowed on the popular and massively advertised games?

My partner plays GTA and all of these games (not online) and we have discussed when DD and any future children are older, he will hide the games. They will not be playing such games when they are in my house but unfortunately, I can't control what their friend's parents let them do.

GauntletGuy · 01/09/2014 12:28

“As of yet, the empirical understanding of the long-term influences of video games on youth violence remain murky. Although several short-term prospective studies of youth violence have been published (Anderson et al. 2008; Moller and Krahe 2009; Shibuya et al. 2008; Williams and Skoric 2005), these have been inconsistent in results and have been limited by the low clinical validity of the aggression/violence measures used, and paucity of statistical controls for other relevant variables.”
C, Video Games and Youth Violence: A Prospective Analysis in Adolescents (2010). Video Games and Youth Violence: A Prospective Analysis in Adolescents. Published online: Springer Science+Business Media

“The Pan-European Game Information (PEGI) age rating system was established to help European parents make informed decisions on buying computer games.”
PEGI. (2003). About PEGI? What is PEGI?. Available: www.pegi.info/en/index/id/28/. Last accessed 1/9/2014.

The “video nasty” debate has been ongoing since the 80’s and its current form is aimed at video games. As per my first reference despite 3 decades of controversy the link between media violence watched or played is still poorly understood, but at best does have links to raised short term violence in teens and.
Around the time of the video nasty debate gaming became mainstream and arguable reaching the adult market in the 90’s with the likes of the PlayStation and Lara croft on. Games designers had a whole new market open to them and one with their own pot of money to spend. This is a natural transition as children become adults and video games grow with them.
As in any emerging technology the law was slow to catch up. Age ratings at first was mere guidance when PEGI started in 2003 and was an industry lead self-regulation. Not till 2012 did the uk drop the BBFC's system in favour of PEGI’s rating guide and make it a criminal offence to sell games to someone under the age of suitability.
Gaming these days isn’t owned solely by children, it is for adults too just like films. The law is in place to help protect children from unsuitable games. However it seems some parents are slower than the law to catch up in the idea that video games haven’t been solely for children for 30 years!

They are your children your responsibility to teach about and protect from the world.

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 01/09/2014 12:34

I deplore the rape mod whether or not it leads anyone to take real life action.

HTH.

nasajedaco · 01/09/2014 13:02

"I deplore the rape mod whether or not it leads anyone to take real life action."

The game allows players to kill each other too. Is there any evidence this has led to murder in real life?

nasajedaco · 01/09/2014 13:04

And why is dry humping air more shocking to you all than violence and murder?

xena26 · 01/09/2014 13:47

The game allows players to kill each other too. Is there any evidence this has led to murder in real life?

NO

atticusclaw · 01/09/2014 14:09

The whole thing is shocking and a couple of bizarre posters coming on and making out that everyone else is wrong to be shocked about the rape because the game also contains murder and violence won't change that.

The point nasajedaco and others is that the whole thing is horrible but in a society where there is already evidence of young men having a warped view of sex because of the easy access to graphic pornography, this is another step in the wrong direction.

The rape example is bring mentioned because its a step up. The killing has become normalised because graphics have changed and whilst nobody objected to pac man eating ghosts this has translated over the years to fighting then killing and then graphic killing. It's crept in and completely changed in nature but because it's crept in it's accepted by some parents as the norm. The rape hasn't evolved from anything, it's new and it's horrible and it's quite shocking.

Whilst my DSis will again tell me the game is fun and all the kids play it and maybe I should loosen up, I will again be mentioning it to her. DN is only eleven.

TheSameBoat · 01/09/2014 14:42

There is already evidence that when men see images of women in sexualised and subservient positions they are more likely to see them in a detrimental way in real life.

But evidence aside it's just common bloody sense that someone who regularly enjoys seeing women raped and men beaten up in a virtual world is going to be more desensitised to such violence in real life. It's not rocket science.

Why on earth would anyone see that as entertainment anyway? It's just incredible that they would.

nasajedaco · 01/09/2014 15:57

What about people who play racing games? Are they going to be more likely to be involved in a real-life car crash?

I disagree with TheSameBoat. The vast majority of people are able to tell the difference between fantasy entertainment (video games/movies etc) and real-life (and anyone who isn't able to tell is probably so messed up they would be a danger to others regardless).

nasajedaco · 01/09/2014 15:59

Should be ban violent movies/movies with a lot of murder such as Rambo and James Bond too? Just in case they "desensitises" people to violence in real life?

atticusclaw · 01/09/2014 16:03

The movies have viewing certificates on them though don't they. The problem is that lots of parents for some reason think that because its a "game" it's for children.

Of course there are negligent parents who let their children watch 18 movies too.

Big difference however between someone choosing to act out a rape in a game and watching a TV programme or movie depicting rape.

PetulaGordino · 01/09/2014 16:03

to those posters who are pro this stuff - why do you find simulated rape entertaining?

nasajedaco · 01/09/2014 16:09

"why do you find simulated rape entertaining?"

Loaded question much? I don't think any poster here has actually said they find "simulated rape" (what you are all calling pixellated avatars dry-air-humping next to each other) entertaining.

But just because I don't find it entertaining doesn't mean I'm going to jump onto the mumsnet wagon protesting for more laws to be created or whatever it is you want.

nasajedaco · 01/09/2014 16:11

"Big difference however between someone choosing to act out a rape in a game and watching a TV programme or movie depicting rape."

And choosing to act out whatever in a game involves doing what? Pushing a button on a controller?

PetulaGordino · 01/09/2014 16:14

i'm not asking for more laws

i'm asking why people see this as entertainment. clearly some do - it's been released in an entertainment context

nasajedaco · 01/09/2014 16:14

And like I said, people know games aren't real life. If people really did re-enact what happened in a game then how come all the millions of GTA-fans aren't all in prison for murder and stealing cars?

I think if people really did re-enact what they pushed buttons to see happen in a game I think we would know about it.

nasajedaco · 01/09/2014 16:17

"i'm asking why people see this as entertainment."

Because there are plenty of immature people who find immature stuff funny. And if it sex-related that makes it even more funny, especially since our society is prudish and sex is still seen as a taboo and something that shouldn't be talked about or portrayed.

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 01/09/2014 16:33

Dry humping someone without consent is sexual assault, just in case you weren't sure about that, nas.

PetulaGordino · 01/09/2014 16:34

so rape is funnier than beating someone up?

BreakingDad77 · 01/09/2014 16:42

PEGI became law in 2012, so all you "cool mums and dads" who bought black ops, ghosts etc have been breaking the law and your no different to supplying them with say a copy of Reservoir dogs.

There is no excuse, there are age related labels on all games. Get savvy, ask on here, read reviews.

Use the parental controls on consoles.

Use admin rights on PC's to control what kids are installing

Mods as others have mentioned have to be found, downloaded to your pc and installed. So someone complaining about is BS because they chose to download it. More like they got caught and claimed ignorance to ignorant parents.

It does though beg the question should literature be age rated? I mean it would be odd for them to seek out say Marquis de Sades work but they could legally.

What I find disturbing when I play on line is the amount of homophobic abuse coming out from what sounds like (high pitched) early teens players.

ABlandAndDeadlyCourtesy · 01/09/2014 17:08

Oh, and rape isn't sex, either, it's a violent crime.

HTH.

Swipe left for the next trending thread