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Amnesty's proposal to legalise prostitution is wrong - we can't let men who exploit women off the hook

693 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 29/01/2014 19:31

An Amnesty International document leaked this week argues for the legalisation of prostitution. It says that approaches like the Swedish Model – which criminalise buying sex, but legalise selling it – are guilty of "devaluing" prostituted women and "criminalising the contexts in which they live". In essence, the proposals say that most women who become prostitutes make a rational, informed choice – effectively , that they enter into a relationship of equals with the men who purchase their bodies.

I’m really disappointed in Amnesty. I'm a long term supporter of the Swedish Model and, for me, the idea that we should simply accept prostitution as a fact of life is totally wrong. It is particularly irresponsible at a time when it's being reported that austerity is driving many women – and in particular single parents – into prostitution.

I believe Amnesty have got it wrong. Firstly, I don’t believe prostitution is, in most cases, "consensual sex between adults", as the policy document describes it. The idea that women who go into prostitution are exercising 'free choice' just doesn’t stack up. Abuse and lack of alternatives are almost always a factor - many enter the sex trade young, and come from backgrounds fraught with suffering and abuse. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but, all things being equal, I believe most women don’t 'choose', in the true sense, to become prostitutes.

Secondly, I disagree with the idea there can be any real equality between a woman who sells her body and a man who buys it. As Amnesty admits, the conditions of the sex trade are "imperfect" to say the least. British 'prostitute review' sites like 'Punternet' – as well as the male-led 'Hands off my whore' campaign in France – show what so-called clients think of the women they buy sex from.

A large proportion of prostitutes say they experience aggression while working, and nearly seven in ten suffer the symptoms of post-traumatic stress. The dynamic between buyers and sellers of sex ranges from the disrespectful to the downright abusive – but there’s almost always an inequality at play.

Of course, there'll always be some who say that prostitution is "the oldest trade" and that there's not much we can do about it. But this argument is as untrue as it’s depressing. In Sweden, for example, stopping the purchase of sex changes social attitudes, making men less likely to purchase sex and more likely to support prosecutions for others - and there’s no reason why this can’t happen in the UK. Amnesty need to aim much higher. We can do better, surely, than just make the exploitation of women better regulated.

The role of charities like Amnesty should be to lift standards up, not drive them down. Amnesty are supposed to be an ambitious organisation. They shouldn’t just shrug their shoulders and say "c’est la vie". Over the years they've done an indispensable job in ending exploitation, improving human rights, and reducing inequalities. Legalising prostitution runs counter to all these things. It has turned Germany into a "giant Teutonic brothel", as the Economist puts it - and, according to Equality Now, has "empowered pimps and traffickers" in Amsterdam.

Women at risk or in economic need require more opportunities and better protection – not to be told their only option is a demeaning last resort. For the sake of women and mothers everywhere I sincerely hope Amnesty will rethink their position.

OP posts:
DonkeySkin · 01/02/2014 13:40

'I can't believe so many are taken in by this.'

Beach, I too, have been genuinely puzzled to see so many leftists and feminists swallowing the rhetoric of the pimp lobby.

I found Kajsa Ekis Ekman's book Being and Being Bought: Prostitution, Surrogacy and the Split Self extremely enlightening on this matter.

In this book Ekman not only exposes the ghastly material realities of the prostitution and surrogacy industries, she brilliantly dissects the rhetoric that is used to justify and defend them.

And she shows how, in order for the mass exploitation of female sexual and reproductive biology to continue in a world in which feminism has successfully challenged the old patriarchal justifications for this, new ones, rooted in ideology that accords with modern thinking, have needed to be introduced.

So, whereas men used to use science and religion to claim that sex and babies were what women were for, and that God and/or nature gave man the right to use them thus, now ideas drawn from neoliberalism and postmodernism are used to claim that women's vaginas and wombs and other body parts are not really part of their own being - they are products, belonging to women, which women have a right to sell, and indeed only someone who is against women's rights would try to prevent them from selling them. This is what Ekman means by 'the split self'.

'... it is this division that is prized in capitalist societies, exactly this split that forms the foundation of the story of the sex worker: a Self that 'owns' a body has come to characterise all of femaleness today. A woman's Self is declared equal to a man, while her body becomes an object.'

She also notes that postmodern leftists and some feminists are particularly in love with 'the story of the sex worker', because to them she is a transgressive figure, someone who lives outside of authority, and in late capitalist patriarchy leftists have failed to overturn deeply embedded power structures, and feminists been not able to transform sexual relations between men and women, so both groups have instead turned to fetishising those who transgress social norms as the real challengers of power.

So, what actually needs to change in prostitution are not the conditions themselves, but the image of it. And as with all postmodernism, language, not material reality, is the key; hence, the prostitute becomes the sex worker - a modern, free-thinking autonomous woman, while in reality prostitution continues to rely for its existence on the fact that many women lack autonomy over their lives and bodies.

I think this goes a long way to explaining why so many leftists and feminists accept the claims of the prostitution lobby - because they want to. Because this re-imagining of prostitution means they don't have to do anything about challenging oppressive institutions - just rename everything, and all the power relations are transformed, and all the injustices go away.

Beachcomber · 01/02/2014 13:42

Well, you see, grimbletart, according to him, he is not a pimp. He is a male escort AKA sex worker who is able to speak for his fellow sex workers (what a prince!).

His partner, Dockerty, is not a pimp either because a) their agency sells 'companionship', not sex and b) the women who provide sex companionship are self employed and employ the agency to take appointments, etc for them.

Which isn't at all slippery. Not at all.

The tricky bit is trying to justify a 'sex workers union' when it appears that all the sex workers that our noble hero Mr Fox represents are self employed. (And empowered!)

It seems that noble Mr Fox doesn't realize that a group of employers joining together to represent their interests is a trade organisation or a lobby, it is not a trade union.

Just as he doesn't seem to realize that men speaking for women, is not men representing women, it is men oppressing women.

On the other hand, maybe he does realize all this stuff and is not a noble hero fighting for the rights of the marginalized, but a misogynist who is living off the sexual abuse and exploitation of women who is trying to pull a fast one. AKA a pimp.

Beachcomber · 01/02/2014 13:46

Thank you DonkeySkin, that sounds exactly like the book I'm looking for. It sounds very very good, I will definitely look it up.

grimbletart · 01/02/2014 14:32

Oh silly me Beachcomber, not to realise Mr Fox was acting from the purest of motives….

What an utter wanker the man is.

DonkeySkin · 01/02/2014 15:40

Oh, and Ekman has a brilliant section where she demonstrates that the term 'sex work' is itself an oxymoron.

For if feelings like lust, affection and a desire to touch somebody are a part of what makes sex 'sex', and no amount of money can compel another person to feel them for you, then 'sex' cannot be bought, as such. What is being bought is access to another person's body.

Thus, prostitution profiteers need people to conceive of their business in two fundamentally contradictory ways: in order for prostitution to be seen as normal labour, it has to be conceived as work - simply a function that someone performs for money.

BUT the punters themselves, of course, think they are buying sex - and nothing makes them angrier than if the prostituted woman lets on for a moment that what is really going on between them feels like 'work' for her - something that she is compelled to do for money.

And punters' forums are filled with posts where the men rail about women who were uninterested, unresponsive, failed to show desire, seemed to be going through the motions, etc. One punter even claims the experience was 'too commercial' Shock

She also compares the ways the punters describe their experiences as pleasure- and passion-filled sessions, with the advice the sex-workers' rights groups' handbooks give to women, which offer tips on how to endure and survive those very same sessions.

So punters will boast about how into it the woman was, or the intimate connection that they made, while the handbooks say things like: 'Don't relax when the job is done. This could be when he attacks you. Relax after he has gone!'

rhinoceer · 01/02/2014 16:17

On #QuestionsForAmnesty twitter hashtag I see a lot of supportive messages for AI from sex workers (or whatever word/term you want to use).

As for Douglas Fox someone has hacked his Facebook account. Real classy (not).

NumptyNameChange · 01/02/2014 16:57

perhaps read my supply and demand post rhino - the fact that there are a few happy prostitutes proclaiming how empowerful and wonderful they find it (if indeed they are prostitutes and not sock puppets which we cannot know) does not change the reality, conditions and context of prostitution.

NumptyNameChange · 01/02/2014 17:00

and to be honest a load of people saying, 'but i love smoking weed and it never did me any harm' hasn't changed the legality of cannabis so why on earth should a few prostituted women claiming likewise (when thousands of others can testify to the damage and trauma caused to them and some can't testify as their 'work' led to their deaths) have an impact on the law?

unless of course the lawmakers don't smoke pot but do like to be able to buy access to young women's bodies.

NumptyNameChange · 01/02/2014 17:01

spliff - god no! - leads to hard drugs and crime.

international trading in women's bodies - sure now that's a harmless bit of fun and the lassies love it you know.

NumptyNameChange · 01/02/2014 17:03

i'm not pro legalisation of drugs btw but i find it ironic to say the least that under such a system a 16yo could be sent to prison for selling a bit of weed whilst a man could legally sell the body of a 16yo drug addict.

Grennie · 01/02/2014 17:23

"Sex workers" term includes pimps, photographers, etc. The term a "sex worker", tells you nothing.

Prostituted woman means those women have actually had lots of men use their bodies for sexual pleasure.

Douglas Fox the owner of a very large escort agency, calls himself a "sex worker"

NumptyNameChange · 01/02/2014 17:30

yep, a cameraman or an agent in the porn industry could call himself a 'sex worker'. the person who books appointments in an 'escort agency' could do likewise. it means nothing.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 01/02/2014 17:36

Some tweets from 'Ruth' to AI:

Pimps describing themselves as "sex workers". AI endorses this

Soldiers paying teenage girls for "sex" because men "need" sex. AI endorses this

Pimp recruits homeless teenage boy to have "sex" with a disabled man. AI endorses this

Women have "sex" with aid workers for extra food. AI endorses this

Does AI endorse "sex work" according to the country's age of consent? 12.

I would really like to hear Amnesty's answers to this.

rhinoceer · 01/02/2014 22:07

@Sab Who is Ruth? What country has an age of consent of 12?

@NumptyNameChange if you're talking about "pimping" that is already illegal in the UK.

@Greenie Douglas Fox is a sex worker. He takes bookings from clients for sexual services.

"Very large escort agency"? How large exactly? How many escorts work there?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 01/02/2014 22:31

Hey rhino. Did you see beach's post to you? Did you think it would be forgotten if you logged off for the night?

Age of consent is 12 in Angola.

grimbletart · 01/02/2014 22:35

The primary age of consent in many states in Mexico is 12.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 01/02/2014 22:59

"Sex worker" is the most stupid term ever. And dangerous since it hides pimps among the prostituted.

rhinoceer · 01/02/2014 23:09

What post?

Are there any feminist campaigns to raise this age of consent?

If "sex work" is so stupid why is it used by many prostitutes themselves?

Grennie · 01/02/2014 23:15

rhino - There are battered women who insist it is their fault their Husbands hit them. Do you thibk they are right?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 01/02/2014 23:25

Rhino: Which post? Here you go, Rhino:

Beachcomber Sat 01-Feb-14 08:15:58
The question that rhinoceer is evading is;

Is having sex for money a job like any other?

Rhinoceer, why not just answer? Taking what you say about benefits (that they should not be withdrawn from someone who refuses to accept to have sex for money), clearly you do not think having sex for money is a job like any other.

There now, that wasn't so hard really was it...?

Right, so now we have established that having sex for money is not like any other job, maybe we could think about why and why that makes AIs position misogynistic and inhumane.

I'll go first.

  1. Because the selling and buying of sex is overwhelmingly gendered with men doing the punting, the pimping, and the trafficking and girls and women providing the bodies for the sex.
horsetowater · 01/02/2014 23:25

Oh good, Rhino, you're back. Are you going to answer my question about your personal involvement in the 'sex industry'?

And whether you are a man or not?

CaptChaos · 01/02/2014 23:37

I find it a little odd that someone so ill informed about the real issues is setting himself up as a spokesman for the pro-pimp/pro/punter lobby.

Thanks for the the excellent OP, which states the issues succinctly and clearly. When I first read this, I thought it must be someone's idea of a sick joke. However, I suppose it's easier to placate pimps and punters than to campaign about the real reasons most people end up in prostitution. I'll give the hard of thinking a hint.... it's not because they chose that career as a child.

rhinoceer · 01/02/2014 23:44

I don't think the OP is so excellent considering it gets its "facts" from Melissa Farley whose research on prostitution was thrown out by a Canadian court. The judge found her research to be problematic, contradictive and her choice of language inflammatory.

plri.wordpress.com/2010/09/30/here-comes-the-judge-justice-himel-on-farley-and-raymond/

CaptChaos · 02/02/2014 00:11

So, still not answering questions then?