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Amnesty's proposal to legalise prostitution is wrong - we can't let men who exploit women off the hook

693 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 29/01/2014 19:31

An Amnesty International document leaked this week argues for the legalisation of prostitution. It says that approaches like the Swedish Model – which criminalise buying sex, but legalise selling it – are guilty of "devaluing" prostituted women and "criminalising the contexts in which they live". In essence, the proposals say that most women who become prostitutes make a rational, informed choice – effectively , that they enter into a relationship of equals with the men who purchase their bodies.

I’m really disappointed in Amnesty. I'm a long term supporter of the Swedish Model and, for me, the idea that we should simply accept prostitution as a fact of life is totally wrong. It is particularly irresponsible at a time when it's being reported that austerity is driving many women – and in particular single parents – into prostitution.

I believe Amnesty have got it wrong. Firstly, I don’t believe prostitution is, in most cases, "consensual sex between adults", as the policy document describes it. The idea that women who go into prostitution are exercising 'free choice' just doesn’t stack up. Abuse and lack of alternatives are almost always a factor - many enter the sex trade young, and come from backgrounds fraught with suffering and abuse. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but, all things being equal, I believe most women don’t 'choose', in the true sense, to become prostitutes.

Secondly, I disagree with the idea there can be any real equality between a woman who sells her body and a man who buys it. As Amnesty admits, the conditions of the sex trade are "imperfect" to say the least. British 'prostitute review' sites like 'Punternet' – as well as the male-led 'Hands off my whore' campaign in France – show what so-called clients think of the women they buy sex from.

A large proportion of prostitutes say they experience aggression while working, and nearly seven in ten suffer the symptoms of post-traumatic stress. The dynamic between buyers and sellers of sex ranges from the disrespectful to the downright abusive – but there’s almost always an inequality at play.

Of course, there'll always be some who say that prostitution is "the oldest trade" and that there's not much we can do about it. But this argument is as untrue as it’s depressing. In Sweden, for example, stopping the purchase of sex changes social attitudes, making men less likely to purchase sex and more likely to support prosecutions for others - and there’s no reason why this can’t happen in the UK. Amnesty need to aim much higher. We can do better, surely, than just make the exploitation of women better regulated.

The role of charities like Amnesty should be to lift standards up, not drive them down. Amnesty are supposed to be an ambitious organisation. They shouldn’t just shrug their shoulders and say "c’est la vie". Over the years they've done an indispensable job in ending exploitation, improving human rights, and reducing inequalities. Legalising prostitution runs counter to all these things. It has turned Germany into a "giant Teutonic brothel", as the Economist puts it - and, according to Equality Now, has "empowered pimps and traffickers" in Amsterdam.

Women at risk or in economic need require more opportunities and better protection – not to be told their only option is a demeaning last resort. For the sake of women and mothers everywhere I sincerely hope Amnesty will rethink their position.

OP posts:
FloraFox · 30/01/2014 19:34

OMG! The policy originated in a motion brought to AGM by Douglas Fox, an escort service owner, through Newcastle branch.

Amnesty getting a strip ripped off by the committee.

DonkeySkin · 30/01/2014 22:18

Grennie, I understand and I hope Amnesty members can hold the IISC to account and force them to rescind this document, by exposing its mendacious and unabashedly male-supremicist approach.

However, it seems more likely to me that the UK members will vote it through, because of the deceptive language in the resolution they will be asked to vote on.

As the IISC minutes reveal (and the leaked draft paper spells out) the committee's position, is: Decriminalization of both demand and supply side are part and parcel of achieving whole objective.

Yet the main question members will vote on is:
Do you support Amnesty International adopting a policy to support the decriminalization of Sex Work?

Which is most simply interpreted to mean support for the decriminalisation of people who sell sex.

Amnesty UK, therefore, is declining to state in the resolution the other half of its position, which is the removal of all sanctions on the 'demand' side of the sex industry, i.e. johns, and the other half (other than prostituted people) of the 'supply' side, i.e. pimps.

In order to get said members to unwittingly vote this half of its position through. The minutes reveal that the IISC then plans to use this anticipated approval of its (hidden) total decrim stance by the UK branch to push for it to become the organisation's official position worldwide.

I think a consciousness-raising mission by UK members, to inform others of the sleight-of-hand Amnesty is trying to pull here, is urgently needed.

And of course of the mind-boggling misogyny in the draft paper on which this position rests.

DonkeySkin · 30/01/2014 22:24

Ech, I meant 'And of course to expose the mind-boggling misogyny in the draft paper on which this position rests.'

Amnesty's misogyny has boggled my mind.

And meant to say thanks CakeandWine (if you happen to be reading) for finding the minutes document back in the other thread - it's so revealing:

www.amnesty.org.uk/webfm_send/228

Pan · 30/01/2014 23:43

I'm v shocked by this. Am not an Amnesty payer, nor grinding any political axe. The idea that women selling their bodies to a man is legitimated as 'equal' is utterly abhorent. I'd spent a while working in a community drugs agency. It was horrific to witness the young girls comming in for meds and extra condoms (by the pocket full) in order to go back out on the street to earn some more money to 'survive' until the next day. They wandered in, and wandered out as zombies.
And this is "equal" with the punters experience of life?

Really?

rhinoceer · 31/01/2014 00:16

"oh and bear in mind if prostitution is legal and sanctioned there'll be nothing to stop them telling 18yo girls they either go and work in the local brothel that has a vacancy or they'll not be able to get jsa as they've turned down work.

hell it could be a form of workfare couldn't it? go get fucked by sleazy old men for your jsa or we'll stop your benefit."

That has never happened and never would happen. A while back news articles were claiming it happened to a German woman but it turned out to be untrue.

www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

rhinoceer · 31/01/2014 00:24

"Should prostitution be legalised?"

IMO sex work (buying and selling) should be decriminalized. If the buying and selling of sexual services takes place indoors between consenting adults there should be no crime.

There are already laws to cover crimes which include trafficking, rape, assualt, underage sex etc.

Statistics in the OP which include "nearly 7 in 10 suffer the symptoms of PTSD" come from Melissa Farley whose research has been found to be "problematic" and thrown out by the Canadian courts.

WhentheRed · 31/01/2014 01:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NumptyNameChange · 31/01/2014 08:27

exactly whenthered. if you make it a legitimate, legal job and buy into this idea of it being no different from any other form of work then it becomes viable employment that the unemployed can be told to do.

if you think that would never happen why is that? if you think prostitution is fine and dandy and just a job in which the women are equal to their punters then why shouldn't anyone be made to do it just like any other job if they're asking for benefits?

there is a contradiction here whereby the prostituted women are just 'other' aren't they - you want it legal for these 'others' to be exploited but the idea of your daughter or yourself being expected to do it is abhorrent?

Grennie · 31/01/2014 10:19

Exactly. Women being prostituted are not treated like real women by so many.

migsy86 · 31/01/2014 10:42

I AM a current sex worker. I support Amnesty for standing up for my rights. Well done!

Beachcomber · 31/01/2014 10:49

Posting in agreement with Mary Honeyball and others on this thread who are appalled at Amnesty International taking on the misogynistic rhetoric of the pimp lobbies and having the gall to present that position as in defense of human rights.

The institution of prostitution is a hugely gendered human rights travesty and Amnesty should know that. Indeed they must know that considering the work they do, therefore this policy of theirs is deeply concerning and sinister for women and women's rights.

As others have pointed out, neo-liberalists and libertarians do not have women's best interests at heart - they are political demagogues whose ideology is that the powerless, the exploited, the oppressed and the vulnerable are only individual victims of their own individual bad choices, and not of structural inequality. This is what they mean when they talk about 'agency' - they use it to undermine collective consciousness of social injustice experienced by disadvantaged sections of society (particularly women).

Douglas Fox is a pimp - no wonder the Amnesty policy document reads as though it has been written by a pimp lobby; it appears it has.

Does anyone know if Cath Elliott is on to this yet, she has been on Fox's case for a while WRT his pimp and punter lobby, the IUSW, masquerading as a trade union.

The great IUSW con

Douglas Fox gets it wrong again

Grennie · 31/01/2014 10:55

migsy - They are not standing up for your rights. Nobody wants prostituted women to be criminalised. What Amnesty are doing is calling for pimps and punters to be decriminalised. Everywhere that has happened violence, trafficking and children involved increase. Everywhere it has happened. the authorities eventually say it was a disaster.

JuliaScurr · 31/01/2014 13:03

Human right to use another person as a wank sock
Ridiculous

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 31/01/2014 13:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

doorkeeper · 31/01/2014 13:39

migsy86 are you someone for whom sex work is an active choice, and you don't believe you are being exploited?

grimbletart · 31/01/2014 15:30

That has never happened and never would happen.

But if it is just a legal job like anything why would it never happen Rhino?
That's illogical. Either it is a legal trade/profession and therefore there is no reason why women should not be required to take such a job if offered rather than stay on benefits, or there is something different about renting out your body and men should not be thought of, as Amnesty appears to state, that it is a human right to pay a woman to do so.

Which is it Rhino?

NumptyNameChange · 31/01/2014 17:10

definitely seems it's one or the other doesn't it?

some strange double standards going on....

NumptyNameChange · 31/01/2014 17:10

as in, 'it's alright for them but you can't make naice girls do it'.

CathElliott · 31/01/2014 17:25

Hi Beachcomber. Yes I'm definitely on this - got something brewing to write up over the weekend. I don't think either me or Julie Bindel have posted the 2 hour interview we did with Fox a couple of years ago yet......;)

JuliaScurr · 31/01/2014 17:34

Looking forward to seeing that, CathElliott

horsetowater · 31/01/2014 17:37

Of course it needs to be 'dealt with' as an issue rather than brushed under the carpet but the Swedish model (unfortunate choice of words) has got to be the answer.

I hate all that fake covering up of prostitution and the euphemistic massage parlours and secret lives around it but decriminalising it is the last thing it needs.

Men are perfectly capable of having sex without another human being attached. Prostitution is unnecessary and degrading. The women in the industry are kidding themselves that they are empowered. They are desensitised and have normalised their situation.

It's horrific that Amnesty International of all people are trying to pave the way to potentially endless suffering for vulnerable people all over the world.

If it all goes 'underground' so be it. It's where it belongs. At least it doesn't become a potential career option for young women when they leave school.

Grennie · 31/01/2014 17:51

Cath thanks for your articles exposing the ISWU and their links through Douglas Fox, with Amnesty. They have made interesting reading over the last few days.

Beachcomber · 31/01/2014 18:03

Hi CathElliott - brilliant, thank you so much for posting here to say that. That interview sounds jolly interesting. I look forward to reading your piece on this issue, I don't doubt that it will be most incisive. It would be great if a link to it could be posted here (hope it's OK to say that MNHQ) and I'm sure MNers who are concerned about this issue will spread the word.

I recently read this rather illuminating piece from Julie Bindel. I would very much like to see the Channel 4 programme that was made about Fox and his partner, Dockerty's pimping activities that Bindel mentions, especially this bit;

www.juliebindel.org/?p=92

Alwen’s documentary, The Escort Agency was screened in 2006. One of the first scenes is of Dockerty booking an appointment with a regular. The punter, who asked to see the youngest escort on Christiny’s books, is a head teacher who requires her to dress as a schoolgirl. Whilst Dockerty claimed that the punter, “…is not my most favourite appointment” he happily made arrangements for 19-year-old Tori to meet the man the following evening.

I wonder if this is the sort of 'human right' Amnesty International have in mind - the right of a teacher to buy sexual access to a very young woman dressed up like one of his pupils. Utterly foul.

WhentheRed · 31/01/2014 18:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rhinoceer · 31/01/2014 18:34

Buffy:"Right, pretend, just for a moment that the people you're arguing with on this thread don't think that prostituted people / sex workers should be criminalised. Imagine that they don't want sex workers arrested. Don't want them stigmatised.

That instead of wanting them criminalised, they want them to be helped instead."

But what if sex work is their choice and they don't want to be "helped"? What if they prefer to spend a few hours a week earning ~£150 an hour as opposed to cleaning toilets all week for whatever the minimum wage is?

Or do you plan to give them the money they would miss out on if you manage to succeed in reducing their client base?