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Amnesty's proposal to legalise prostitution is wrong - we can't let men who exploit women off the hook

693 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 29/01/2014 19:31

An Amnesty International document leaked this week argues for the legalisation of prostitution. It says that approaches like the Swedish Model – which criminalise buying sex, but legalise selling it – are guilty of "devaluing" prostituted women and "criminalising the contexts in which they live". In essence, the proposals say that most women who become prostitutes make a rational, informed choice – effectively , that they enter into a relationship of equals with the men who purchase their bodies.

I’m really disappointed in Amnesty. I'm a long term supporter of the Swedish Model and, for me, the idea that we should simply accept prostitution as a fact of life is totally wrong. It is particularly irresponsible at a time when it's being reported that austerity is driving many women – and in particular single parents – into prostitution.

I believe Amnesty have got it wrong. Firstly, I don’t believe prostitution is, in most cases, "consensual sex between adults", as the policy document describes it. The idea that women who go into prostitution are exercising 'free choice' just doesn’t stack up. Abuse and lack of alternatives are almost always a factor - many enter the sex trade young, and come from backgrounds fraught with suffering and abuse. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but, all things being equal, I believe most women don’t 'choose', in the true sense, to become prostitutes.

Secondly, I disagree with the idea there can be any real equality between a woman who sells her body and a man who buys it. As Amnesty admits, the conditions of the sex trade are "imperfect" to say the least. British 'prostitute review' sites like 'Punternet' – as well as the male-led 'Hands off my whore' campaign in France – show what so-called clients think of the women they buy sex from.

A large proportion of prostitutes say they experience aggression while working, and nearly seven in ten suffer the symptoms of post-traumatic stress. The dynamic between buyers and sellers of sex ranges from the disrespectful to the downright abusive – but there’s almost always an inequality at play.

Of course, there'll always be some who say that prostitution is "the oldest trade" and that there's not much we can do about it. But this argument is as untrue as it’s depressing. In Sweden, for example, stopping the purchase of sex changes social attitudes, making men less likely to purchase sex and more likely to support prosecutions for others - and there’s no reason why this can’t happen in the UK. Amnesty need to aim much higher. We can do better, surely, than just make the exploitation of women better regulated.

The role of charities like Amnesty should be to lift standards up, not drive them down. Amnesty are supposed to be an ambitious organisation. They shouldn’t just shrug their shoulders and say "c’est la vie". Over the years they've done an indispensable job in ending exploitation, improving human rights, and reducing inequalities. Legalising prostitution runs counter to all these things. It has turned Germany into a "giant Teutonic brothel", as the Economist puts it - and, according to Equality Now, has "empowered pimps and traffickers" in Amsterdam.

Women at risk or in economic need require more opportunities and better protection – not to be told their only option is a demeaning last resort. For the sake of women and mothers everywhere I sincerely hope Amnesty will rethink their position.

OP posts:
SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 04/02/2014 10:56

Just glancing back at the title: "we can't let men who exploit women off the hook."

It is exploitation because you are having sex with men much older than you, who you don't find attractive, and, by your own admission, you entered prostitution through desperation.

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 11:14

For me it's all about choice. I wouldn't want my child to do a lot of careers but is doesn't mean the actual job is wrong.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 04/02/2014 11:20

Of course the actual job is wrong - it subjugates women (or a certain subset of women) to being the sex class. Which in turn contributes to structural inequality for women. No job outside of the sex industry does that.

NumptyNameChange · 04/02/2014 11:26

i don't understand how can you honestly feel no instinct 'wrong' in the idea of your child being fucked by multiple middle aged married men for money. i'd do anything i could to avoid that fate for her and i don't even know her Sad

NumptyNameChange · 04/02/2014 11:27

you know of course that some people even rent their children out to be fucked before they get to 18. i'm sure you agree that is horrific. not sure why her turning 16 or 18 would make you feel any better about it though.

NumptyNameChange · 04/02/2014 11:28

mind you maybe if it's just a job like any other you might think well actually it's no different from a paper round and be ok with her doing it at 16.

SquigletPie · 04/02/2014 11:41

NumptyNameChange hits the nail on the head for me: legalising prostitution won't stop the sex slave trade, they will continue to traffic girls/boys and force them to work illegally.

So whilst it may protect a small number of people who 'choose' to work in the sex trade I don't see it achieving anything really.

How many men who visit prostitutes care whether they are working legally, freely and receiving a far salary? I doubt it's any so they will continue to frequent illegal brothels and prostitutes regardless of a legalised system being in place.

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 12:18

Most of my clients will ask me if I'm working alone and if I enjoy it ect. I have heard so horrible stories from them about how they have been with girls who didn't enjoy it and often there was a man knocking at the door when the session was over. They don't like those experiences and in my experience, prefer to see an independent worker.

WhentheRed · 04/02/2014 12:24

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SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 04/02/2014 12:28

Most of my clients will ask me if I'm working alone and if I enjoy it ect. I have heard so horrible stories from them about how they have been with girls who didn't enjoy it and often there was a man knocking at the door when the session was over. They don't like those experiences and in my experience, prefer to see an independent worker.

You have just described the problem I have with prostitution as an industry in a nutshell.

So many horrible stories.

FloraFox · 04/02/2014 12:29

migs presumably you lie and tell them you enjoy it, right? You don't tell them they're older than your father and you wouldn't look the road they're on if it wasn't a choice between shagging them and signing on. Of course they want the illusion you're a sex-mad happy hooker.

givemeaclue · 04/02/2014 12:30

Amnesty have zero influence over this anyway. They are wasting their time and donor money. I imagine they will lose a lot of donors

TunipTheUnconquerable · 04/02/2014 12:33

Yeah, they might gain a few big donors from the sex industry though, if they're ok with selling themselves to the patriarchy.

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 12:37

I find it sad that people will stop supporting amnesty because of this. Of course I tell them I enjoy it. Recently I was asked this question and I said yes I enjoy it and he replied "not as much as me". So of course they "know" its ultimately about their pleasure but it still boils down to me choosing to do this.

JustTheRightBullets · 04/02/2014 14:08

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JustTheRightBullets · 04/02/2014 14:21

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Grennie · 04/02/2014 14:36

JustTheRight - That is the standard response everyone gets from Amnesty.

JustTheRightBullets · 04/02/2014 14:40

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doublelife111 · 04/02/2014 17:01

If i knew my grown up daughter loved sex and wanted to be an independent escort I would support her wholeheartedly.
I have never touched drugs,dont drink or smoke.I would be vehemently against her doing those .

FloraFox · 04/02/2014 18:47

It's very sad to hear women saying they feel empowered by ugly men they don't like find them attractive enough to pay them for sex. That is not power, it is patriarchy.

NumptyNameChange · 04/02/2014 18:54

sometimes choices are BAD choices migsy.

human rights doesn't mean the right to do whatever the fuck you think you want (aside from whether your wants are healthy or fucked up due to BEING fucked up by a fucked up system).

we have law because, rightly or wrongly, we have decided anarchy is not an option because we can't rely entirely on people choosing because people can and do make bad choices and we recognise that one persons choices can be massively harmful to another person.

sure this is your 'choice' but despite my relatively relative relativism Wink and my desire to retain as much freedom as possible and minimal interference from the state i will actually go out on a unfamiliar limb and say your choice is a BAD choice. it is a bad choice in terms of yourself (which may well be informed by seriously awful things happening to you as a result of other people's choices) and it is a majorly, morally, ethically, societally, parentally EPICALLY bad choice in terms of being ready to support your child in following in your footsteps.

if you can't give a fuck about yourself then at least give a fuck about your child. to demonstrate and model prostitution to your child and then pretend that if she goes into it that too will be a pure 'choice' and to say you'll encourage and support that is actually vile - it may be vile through damage - we may be able to empathise with the vileness but it remains VILE. bad enough that you can pretend for yourself that being raped has not led you down this path but to pretend for an innocent child that you going down this path and sanctioning this path wouldn't be a leading factor in your child 'choosing' this path and saying you'd support it (it being her selling herself to dirty old men and being fucked however many times a day by men she wouldn't even look at if you took the money, conditioning and dissociation out of the picture) goes past poor you into poor fucking her.

some people go through hell and come out of it thinking no one should go through that and i will never be a part of someone else doing so and my children will never face that and maybe even go so far as campaigning for strangers never to go through it. some use it as license to rinse and repeat and pass on the abuse. the deciding factor does not seem to be iq - i've known those with very little of what society would call intellectual capacity who have been through hell on earth and yet become the most loving, protective, nurturing parents i've seen. i've known super 'intelligent' people who have just repeated the kind of monstronsities they've been subjected to.

maybe you're right and it's all just a CHOICE and you are quite happy to choose to to stand by and watch your daughter get fucked by dirty old men. if so then i'm afraid you wouldnt' be the category of person i am so desperate to ensure is protected and i really really really wouldn't want you to get the license to do this without concern of legalities at the expense of victims of violence and fucked up scenarios (such as being daughter of a woman who role modeled prostitution and didn't try to talk you out of it when some slimey pimp got hold of you at 18 - which is a fucking horrible filthy start in life that would make me want to hold someone and support them and offer them my sofa to get away from such a mother).

OR you're massively deluded by your fucked up experiences and it's time to wake up, grown up and try to deal and tackle and face everything before you pass on the same horrors to the next generation. then again that's another choicy choice isn't it? and yet more demonstration of why choicy choiciness is a fucked up way to address such serious and life destroying issues.

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 18:55

Its the money, for me it enables me to keep a roof over my head and put food on the table. I don't care what they look like.

NumptyNameChange · 04/02/2014 18:56

my head actually literally boggles and spins around on my shoulders that the government wants to fine otherwise fantastic parents who take their kids on holiday for a week whilst potentially making it LEGAL and ok to role model fucking dirty old men for money to their daughters and being cool with the idea of them doing the same from 16.

legal system should be burnt if we get to that level whereby people are policed for the teeny things and decriminalised for doing things that literally destroy the lives of their children.

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 19:06

My child is not having their life destroyed. I do what I do to support us.

NumptyNameChange · 04/02/2014 19:07

x posted. funnily enough i have to keep a roof over me and my child solo migsy. lots of us do. are you actually saying this is the only way you could do it? or this is just what you'd prefer over the alternatives?

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