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Amnesty's proposal to legalise prostitution is wrong - we can't let men who exploit women off the hook

693 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 29/01/2014 19:31

An Amnesty International document leaked this week argues for the legalisation of prostitution. It says that approaches like the Swedish Model – which criminalise buying sex, but legalise selling it – are guilty of "devaluing" prostituted women and "criminalising the contexts in which they live". In essence, the proposals say that most women who become prostitutes make a rational, informed choice – effectively , that they enter into a relationship of equals with the men who purchase their bodies.

I’m really disappointed in Amnesty. I'm a long term supporter of the Swedish Model and, for me, the idea that we should simply accept prostitution as a fact of life is totally wrong. It is particularly irresponsible at a time when it's being reported that austerity is driving many women – and in particular single parents – into prostitution.

I believe Amnesty have got it wrong. Firstly, I don’t believe prostitution is, in most cases, "consensual sex between adults", as the policy document describes it. The idea that women who go into prostitution are exercising 'free choice' just doesn’t stack up. Abuse and lack of alternatives are almost always a factor - many enter the sex trade young, and come from backgrounds fraught with suffering and abuse. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but, all things being equal, I believe most women don’t 'choose', in the true sense, to become prostitutes.

Secondly, I disagree with the idea there can be any real equality between a woman who sells her body and a man who buys it. As Amnesty admits, the conditions of the sex trade are "imperfect" to say the least. British 'prostitute review' sites like 'Punternet' – as well as the male-led 'Hands off my whore' campaign in France – show what so-called clients think of the women they buy sex from.

A large proportion of prostitutes say they experience aggression while working, and nearly seven in ten suffer the symptoms of post-traumatic stress. The dynamic between buyers and sellers of sex ranges from the disrespectful to the downright abusive – but there’s almost always an inequality at play.

Of course, there'll always be some who say that prostitution is "the oldest trade" and that there's not much we can do about it. But this argument is as untrue as it’s depressing. In Sweden, for example, stopping the purchase of sex changes social attitudes, making men less likely to purchase sex and more likely to support prosecutions for others - and there’s no reason why this can’t happen in the UK. Amnesty need to aim much higher. We can do better, surely, than just make the exploitation of women better regulated.

The role of charities like Amnesty should be to lift standards up, not drive them down. Amnesty are supposed to be an ambitious organisation. They shouldn’t just shrug their shoulders and say "c’est la vie". Over the years they've done an indispensable job in ending exploitation, improving human rights, and reducing inequalities. Legalising prostitution runs counter to all these things. It has turned Germany into a "giant Teutonic brothel", as the Economist puts it - and, according to Equality Now, has "empowered pimps and traffickers" in Amsterdam.

Women at risk or in economic need require more opportunities and better protection – not to be told their only option is a demeaning last resort. For the sake of women and mothers everywhere I sincerely hope Amnesty will rethink their position.

OP posts:
FloraFox · 04/02/2014 00:06

It's not empowering to be liked by lying cheating scumbags.

WhentheRed · 04/02/2014 00:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

horsetowater · 04/02/2014 00:16

At least if you were only having an affair you wouldn't be taking money out of their family budget.

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 00:17

I know it's hard for those who are looking in to understand but I enjoy what I do. I'm working to support my child and keep a roof over his head. I don't think he would thank me if I signed on the dole.

horsetowater · 04/02/2014 00:18

Doublelife how did you get into prostitution in the first place? Genuine question.

horsetowater · 04/02/2014 00:19

Your child would be fine on the dole Migsy. Better off than he is now, and with the prospect of a future with a Mummy that will be safe and secure, financially and physically.

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 00:19

Most of the men I see are married most don't even bother to take off their wedding ring. I hardly see it that I'm taking money from their family budget. They are wealthy enough to spend a couple of hundred on me for a few hrs!

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 04/02/2014 00:31

Sooner or later in these discussions, prostitutes of the happy hooker type talk about married men being the majority of punters. I can't understand why this is empowering - unless you think empowerment comes from being paid to pretend you want sex.

The man paying is the one with all the power in the transaction- he bought it.

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 00:35

He has paid for my time and unless a specific service has been asked for what happens within the time is up to me. I have the power to say no to him.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 04/02/2014 00:36

Many, many prostitutes don't.

WhentheRed · 04/02/2014 00:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FloraFox · 04/02/2014 00:46

There's no power in it Sab, just damage.

migsy how often do you tell these men you don't want to have sex after they have paid you?

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 00:49

I never tell then no. I know my job is to please them sexually so I do what they want, as long as it's within my own personal limits.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 04/02/2014 00:50

In this anonymous survey of punters punters were asked why they paid for prostitutes.

“Prostitution is like masturbating without having to use your hand.”

“I feel sorry for these girls but this is what I want."

“No big deal, it’s just like getting a beer.”

“I have sex as a means to an end to meet my sexual needs… It’s a financial transaction.”

“Look, men pay for women because he can have whatever and whoever he wants. Lots of men go to prostitutes so they can do things to them that real women would not put up with."

“If you go to the wrong one, you might as well be in a morgue, there’s a slab of flesh there.”

“You pay for the convenience, a bit like going to a public loo.”

Some of them don't even consider prostitutes "real" women. How is that empowerment for the woman?

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 00:53

It's financial empowerment and also they have also chosen me because they like the look of me. I have good ratings on my profile and I've also got new clients through word of mouth, I see this as a positive thing. It means I'm good at what I do.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 04/02/2014 01:12

Well, I'd wager that not one of those punters is worthy of you.

They pay you and then go back to their wives. "A bit like going to a public loo."

FloraFox · 04/02/2014 01:16

So you don't know if you have control in this situation, you don't know how the men would react.

I agree with Sab, they're not worthy of you. You also need to think about yourself and your own self-esteem. It's empowering for your self-esteem not to be dependent on whether men who are old enough to be your dad want to shag you. It's empowering for your sex life not to focus on pleasing men.

CaptChaos · 04/02/2014 04:59

It is unbearably sad to see the cognitive dissonance at play here. How can AI justify their stance?

sonjdol · 04/02/2014 08:40

I support Amnesty's proposal. There is really no reason to criminalize sexual actions based on consent.

I want to live in a country, where the state keeps out of the beds of its citizes, even when sex work is concerned. Criminal laws should deal with crimes, not with consensual sex.

Amnesty does NOT call for the legalization of rape, trafficking, child abuse or other crimes who infringe the right to self-determination of persons.

Amnesty calls for the decriminalization of all actions that are "victimless" and, Yes, I do not believe all sex workers are by definition victims.

Claiming sex workers are by definition victims is paternalistic and it is incompatible with our values of a pluralistic, liberal society.

So unless you wish to abolish liberal pluralistic societies together with sex workers, please go ahead and call for the Nordic Model, which, by the way has not abolished prostitution OR human trafficking
OR rape.

I do support the COMPLETE DECRIMINALIZATION OF CONSENSUAL ADULT SEX WORK on HUMAN RUGHTS' grounds, because all other approaches put people in jail or expose them to (police) violence, because they are deprived of their rights.

If Amnesty should ever give in to paternalism, then they will truly have lost their human rights cause.

I support Amnesty's position as outlined in their working paper and I supported this petition

www.change.org/de/Petitionen/amnesty-international-international-secretariat-london-we-demand-a-human-rights-based-approach-to-sex-work-and-call-for-the-decriminalization-of-all-consented-adult-sex-work?share_id=MgqRHynlWX&utm_campaign=twitter_link&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition

sonjdol · 04/02/2014 08:42

I also do not think there is anything constructive or useful in designing yellow penisses, in accusing sex workers of being pimps (that is a strategy to silence and exclude them from democratic participation).

I do not think it is useful to accuse amnesty of having a position on rape and sexual abuse it does not have, unless of course, you conflate rape with sex work. But every raped person will tell you, she is not a prostitute and every sex worker will tell you the difference between rape and a consensual sex work encounter.

It is sad that you all don't want to hear that.

NumptyNameChange · 04/02/2014 10:20

really, really sad reading.

migsy it is heartbreaking to read someone say they were gangraped as a child and a few years later ended up desperate and going into prostitution but they don't see a connection. you then go on to unwittingly talk about the connection - i just see it as a job, i don't think about whether i like them and essentially you don't see a connection to being able to dissociate being physically used for sex from your own attraction, desire or emotions. and you seem to feel that that's all ok because what? it isn't like when you were raped and said no and were ignored? there's no violence? there never has to be violence - there never has to be an ability to cut off from your emotions or desire - SEX as in the real thing not what you are paid to simulate engages YOU, utterly engages your desires and your attraction. i'm sad that it has become something else for you.

if you ever do want to get out of this or to look into how your rape effected you there are really skilled people out there who will help you. i hope one day you do. i'm actually quite sad to read you have children and that experience hasn't made you re-evaluate your worth or how childhood effected you. just to ask the obvious would you want this life for your children? would you be happy for them to do this 'job'?

NumptyNameChange · 04/02/2014 10:26

oh and on the political front we do need to bear in mind in our current culture and the changes to marriage and divorce, the ability to have children on your own as a woman etc there is undoubtedly men in power sitting around outraged that women are getting financial assistance to live without men and having the audacity to suggest that society should change it's structures etc to fit around their families and lives as well as those of families with men in them. they'd far rather see us being fucked for money with our babies in the next room than being entitled to income support for a few years. the idea that a woman should be assisted by a man or by a male dominated govt without sexually and/or domestically serving that man or male dominated society is OUTRAGEOUS to them.

ergo we should be wives or whores if we expect anything. btw can i remind people to sign the gingerbread petition about the govt charging women to try and access child support from absent fathers. it's the same deal basically - they just do NOT agree that men should support their children or children in general unless a woman is sucking their cock and/or washing their pants for them.

migsy86 · 04/02/2014 10:38

If my child wanted to go into the industry I would make sure they knew about it properly. It's not like pretty woman and you need to have a good head on your shoulders or else it will mess with your head.

NumptyNameChange · 04/02/2014 10:48

so being fucked by middle aged men she wasn't attracted to and learning to programme your head not to find that distressing or damaging would be ok with you for your daughter come 18?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 04/02/2014 10:52

Miggs, it may be some form of Stockholm syndrome/ internal self-defence mechanism you're demonstrating here - which is understandable - but it's not empowerment. You don't have any genuine power in the transaction, it's all an illusion. You're at the mercy of the paying customer.

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