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Amnesty's proposal to legalise prostitution is wrong - we can't let men who exploit women off the hook

693 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 29/01/2014 19:31

An Amnesty International document leaked this week argues for the legalisation of prostitution. It says that approaches like the Swedish Model – which criminalise buying sex, but legalise selling it – are guilty of "devaluing" prostituted women and "criminalising the contexts in which they live". In essence, the proposals say that most women who become prostitutes make a rational, informed choice – effectively , that they enter into a relationship of equals with the men who purchase their bodies.

I’m really disappointed in Amnesty. I'm a long term supporter of the Swedish Model and, for me, the idea that we should simply accept prostitution as a fact of life is totally wrong. It is particularly irresponsible at a time when it's being reported that austerity is driving many women – and in particular single parents – into prostitution.

I believe Amnesty have got it wrong. Firstly, I don’t believe prostitution is, in most cases, "consensual sex between adults", as the policy document describes it. The idea that women who go into prostitution are exercising 'free choice' just doesn’t stack up. Abuse and lack of alternatives are almost always a factor - many enter the sex trade young, and come from backgrounds fraught with suffering and abuse. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but, all things being equal, I believe most women don’t 'choose', in the true sense, to become prostitutes.

Secondly, I disagree with the idea there can be any real equality between a woman who sells her body and a man who buys it. As Amnesty admits, the conditions of the sex trade are "imperfect" to say the least. British 'prostitute review' sites like 'Punternet' – as well as the male-led 'Hands off my whore' campaign in France – show what so-called clients think of the women they buy sex from.

A large proportion of prostitutes say they experience aggression while working, and nearly seven in ten suffer the symptoms of post-traumatic stress. The dynamic between buyers and sellers of sex ranges from the disrespectful to the downright abusive – but there’s almost always an inequality at play.

Of course, there'll always be some who say that prostitution is "the oldest trade" and that there's not much we can do about it. But this argument is as untrue as it’s depressing. In Sweden, for example, stopping the purchase of sex changes social attitudes, making men less likely to purchase sex and more likely to support prosecutions for others - and there’s no reason why this can’t happen in the UK. Amnesty need to aim much higher. We can do better, surely, than just make the exploitation of women better regulated.

The role of charities like Amnesty should be to lift standards up, not drive them down. Amnesty are supposed to be an ambitious organisation. They shouldn’t just shrug their shoulders and say "c’est la vie". Over the years they've done an indispensable job in ending exploitation, improving human rights, and reducing inequalities. Legalising prostitution runs counter to all these things. It has turned Germany into a "giant Teutonic brothel", as the Economist puts it - and, according to Equality Now, has "empowered pimps and traffickers" in Amsterdam.

Women at risk or in economic need require more opportunities and better protection – not to be told their only option is a demeaning last resort. For the sake of women and mothers everywhere I sincerely hope Amnesty will rethink their position.

OP posts:
CaptChaos · 02/02/2014 21:55

Anyway, back to the actual thread.....

No, prostitution is not a job like any other. There is no comparison.

AI should be concentrating it's expertise on helping women and girls out of situations where prostitution is the only choice, rather than letting itself be led by a pimp down a very dark route indeed.

horsetowater · 02/02/2014 22:01

Hello again Rhinoceer, forgive me for asking again, but are you a man?

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 02/02/2014 22:06

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rhinoceer · 02/02/2014 22:10

If they aren't jokes then what are they supposed to be?

Beachcomber · 02/02/2014 22:16

She's a brave woman, Melissa Farley

www.theguardian.com/world/2007/sep/07/usa.gender

Another pimp told Farley matter-of-factly that many of the women working for him had histories of sexual abuse and mental ill-health. "Most," he said, "have been sexually abused as kids. Some are bipolar, some are schizophrenic."

Investigating the sex industry - even the legal part - can be dangerous. During one visit to a brothel, Farley asked the owner what the women thought of their work. "I was polite," she writes in her book, "as he condescendingly explained what a satisfying and lucrative business prostitution was for his 'ladies'. I tried to keep my facial muscles expressionless, but I didn't succeed. He whipped a revolver out of his waistband, aimed it at my head and said: 'You don't know nothing about Nevada prostitution, lady. You don't even know whether I will kill you in the next five minutes.'"

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 02/02/2014 22:17

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scallopsrgreat · 02/02/2014 22:23

Ahh Melissa Farley. Knew we'd seen you before rhinoceer.

You do realise she is describing what is acceptable for men to do to women. What men have done to women.

No it isn't a fucking joke.

Beachcomber · 02/02/2014 23:01

Yes, please sign it and share on FB, etc.

I did some looking around about Ekman's book that DonkeySkin recommended upthread, and came across this very interesting interview.

Lots of really interesting stuff like;

There’s another aspect of the law that nobody talks about and that’s the fact that this law gives some advantage to the prostitutes. Now, women can report a john to the police, but he can’t report her. Say, for example, he treats her badly or there’s something that he won’t agree to or he refuses to pay — she can threaten to report him because what he’s doing is already illegal. He, on the other hand, can’t threaten her with anything because what she’s doing is not illegal. In countries where the prostitute is doing something illegal and he’s not, he has even more power than he already does in what is a very unequal situation to begin with because he can threaten to report her.

Feminist Current looks like a great website - this is good too. 10 myths about prostitution, trafficking and the Nordic model

Grennie · 02/02/2014 23:02

I don't know if people realise that the proposal is decriminalisation. That means there would be absolutely no laws at all around prostitution, not even ones that protect those being prostituted.

horsetowater · 02/02/2014 23:24

I wonder what the UK would look like in 5 years time if this happened here?

Grennie · 02/02/2014 23:30

I don't believe that pimps should be legalised and I don't think prostitution is "work", but decriminalisation would mean that there would be no protective laws at all. All workers in the UK have laws to protect them. We have NMW, health and safety laws, working time directives, etc, etc. Women being prostitited would have absolutely no protective laws at all. Zilch.

horsetowater · 02/02/2014 23:43

Legalisation as opposed to decrminalisation would be impossible because you would have to treat sex as 'work' and you could then get 'training'. Imagine your daughter saying they are going to college to do a BTEC in prostitution.

You have to take proposals like this to their ultimate conclusion to see the gravity of their impact.

Grennie · 02/02/2014 23:52

Legalisation is a nonsense I agree. But the argument is that "sex work" is just a job. In no other job in the UK would we accept there being no laws to protect those working in it.

WhentheRed · 03/02/2014 00:15

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rhinoceer · 03/02/2014 01:24

You do all realize in all UK jurisdictions prostitution is already decriminalized? And there are laws restricting what exactly is legal and what isn't.

There are laws in place to cover crimes such as trafficking, rape, assault, underage sex etc.

But if buying and selling of sex takes place between 2 consenting adults indoors no crime has been committed.

Grennie · 03/02/2014 02:28

Rhino - Living off the proceeds of money earned by someone else being prostituted i.e. being a pimp, is illegal in the UK. Street solicitation is illeagl in the UK. Running a brothel is illegal in the UK.

WhentheRed · 03/02/2014 06:32

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NumptyNameChange · 03/02/2014 08:02

and: do your make your living from prostituted women? (re: are you a pimp) or is it that you enjoy fucking prostituted women (re: a punter) and want to do it with less stigma?

what is your personal investment in this issue?

NumptyNameChange · 03/02/2014 08:05

you seem shocked and horrified that farley has an invested position rather than studying prostituted women as if they were bacteria in a petridish with some kind of dehumanised androcentric delusion of 'Objectivity' which many researchers in the social sciences and various other areas have seen through as the myth it is and have developed a different methodology that acknowledges the role of the researcher.

so given how someone else's objectives, bias, investment in a subject is so important to your critique of them would you have the decency to be upfront about what your involvement is? or do you want to hide behind the dinosaur of uninvested objectivity?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 03/02/2014 08:06

It's one or the other, isn't it Numpty?

The only other reason I can think of is sheer misogyny - wanting to keep women in their place as the sex class.

That 10 myths document beach linked to is really interesting - the nordic model is the best model - for everyone except the pimps and the punters.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 03/02/2014 08:18

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BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 03/02/2014 08:20

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GoshAnneGorilla · 03/02/2014 12:44

Pro-primp mouthpieces will tell you that only street prostitution is dangerous.

It's not true: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-26013716

migsy86 · 03/02/2014 13:11

That poor woman died because she was forced to work alone by UK laws. Decrim is the only way to go to give sex workers like myself rights. I don't choose to work alone but I have to in fear of prosecution.