why 9 times out of 10 gifted doesn'tmean gifted.

[gracemargaret]

I have read many of the threads here and have been watching with amusement the whole G&T developments in education. I have two daughters who have both been placed on this register - one who was born truly "gifted" and has never ceased to amaze and frankly terrify me from the day she was born, and the other who is bright and quite academic and who is bound to do well in life with far less emotional difficulty along the way. My eldest daughter is eight - she spoke in sentences at 9 months of age was reading and writing before two - she has never really been a "child" - has never played with toys or other children (and I was a stay at home mum running a toddler group so she had plenty of opportunity!) Take her to a park and she will sit on a bench with a book. She is already far cleverer than either myself or her father and will spend hours in her room (if we let her) reading books and writing notes/constructing powerpoint presentations. As an example the other day I suggested going for a walk (it was raining) and she said she was rather "waterproof to that idea and was much more absorbant to the idea of staying at home" - she also likes home made food as "you can taste not just the ingredients but the effort too" Although she has us in stitches constantly with the things she says, her intelligence is far from a blessing as I worry about her constantly - she is so emotionally sensitive that she can hallucinate when upset and will taste words and smell voices - I am sure at some point she will be bullied as she is so obviously different and awkward and I can't see how she will ever develop as an adult able to deal with the realities of life (although will try my best to help her). My other daughter is an absolute joy - bright, very popular, high achiever and wonderfully within the realms of normal - she might be in the top 5% but is definitely not "gifted" despite what school might say and gives me far less reason to worry. Although I love both my daughters more than anything I still say nobody would choose a gifted child and what gifted children need most is not pushing to acheive (this is an inner drive they have anyway), but support, love, and help to try to adjust to a world where they may never feel they "belong". Good luck to everyone with gifted kids - and those with high achievers - know the difference - and realise how lucky you are!!

"I personally would rather stay in a yurt in Cornwall (as we did) than fly to the bahamas."

I want to meet you. Are you being exhibited anywhere near me soon? Will there be tickets? How many minutes will I get? Will a preference for a yurt in Cornwall over the Bahamas rub off?

Nope, but having a severely autistic child pretty much makes you decide anything that involves a plane is pointless (actually the yurt was too much for him too but at least it was close enough for him to visit).

Just making the point that lots of people aren't driven by the idea of being rich- being comfortable is more than enough for many.

And i go lumpy in the sun. which some people have found strangely fascinating but no-one to my knowledge has ever bought tickets.

was joking, you know, I seriously do think that you are a rare and unusual person.

in a good way

well i like the rain as well - which apparently is strange (but I don't go lumpy in the rain). Like it less since we've had a leaky roof

Don't get me wrong I'd quite like to be rich. I love the idea of my own pool, but the trade off of having to do the type of job that would make us rich is too much iyswim.

Pagwatch was talking earlier about money helping if you have a kid with SN. It does, and we could have stayed in London for that, but for us moving near to my mum has given us more help than the extra money could buy- she comes in every day after work, fiddles work around to meet ds1 from the bus if I have a meeting etc

I just want to get rich the easy way (win the lottery) then use it in some way usefully.

Still would prefer a yurt over getting on a plane though (do quite fancy a cruise to the north.....)

I would love a yurt - we've got a tipi, but a yurt would be fab!

Gifted and talented seems to have become a label it seems for high achievers. My first born son was very quick as a baby and seemed to have a kind of photographic memory. He would remember information, numbers maths theories etc. He did extremely well at primary school but it created a jealousy within the classroom with lads who were also clever. They then would go to extremes when he started secondary school to push him out. He was very gifted musically and could play by ear. As his parents we found him capable to pick things up so easily and we would encourage him to try to achieve more. At 14 years he was in the gifted and talented to take G.C.S.E.s early. He got in with the wrong crowd and gave up on school completely. It was too uncool to achieve. He is nearly 18 now and still very dynamic but didn't achieve any G.C.S.E.s at all and has no intention to resit. I feel if no attention had been created and I had not pushed for more things may have been different. In our area where we live it isn't cool for boys to study. Learning should be fun and children who are not labelled as gifted and talented can achieve in the end. I cringe now at the term gifted and talented and think there is sometimes a long way to go and how do you measure intelligence?

Bella, you are correct in saying that the money is easy to get used to. I easily spent £200 per week in waitrose and £25 for a bottle of wine without thinking and I'm ashamed to say that I rarely check our bank account. But, I am always acutely aware of how lucky I am to be in such a fortunate position. Growing up in such dire poverty gives me a first hand understanding of the conditions that millions of people live in.

I want my children to be financially secure, absolutely! But much more than that I want them to be happy. I am desperately trying to bring them up with an awareness of how materially fortunate they are in the hope that they will,
a)Never equate the level of their income with their ability to be happy
b)Never judge others by the state of their finances or their material possessions.

BTW, DH earns a 6 figure salary and we went camping in Devon last year (our only holiday) and stayed in a dodgy flat in Cornwall the year before. No way would we venture on a plane two crazy toddlers. You cannot assume that financial security means that people would always choose exotic hols over a budget break in the west country.

I want dd to live the life that is right for her - and for me to live the life that is right for me. I don't think I owe my child more than comfortable. I certainly don't owe her making myself miserable in order to get a high salary, private school etc.

I have observed that people who grow up with money have a hard time settling for less. We weren't poor - (well maybe to some of you we were but not in real terms) - but I had no standards to maintain!

I don't think money is an evil - I'd love to have more money. It's just not my top priority.

Can I have yurt in Africa? Actually we fly every year - travel is a high priority and always has been. I've lived a very colourful life - but the price has been financial stability (and until I married late really all kinds of stability). I've never been too hung up on security and stability. There's a tremendous freedom in not relying on having a lot of money.

gracemargaret - I was moved by your post, your daughters sound lovely and you seem like a marvellous mother to them. I know that my mother worried a lot about me for quite similar reasons; to be honest I did have a very hard time socially but it did gradually become easier; the hardest bit for me was about 9-15, but I moved to a very academic school at 15 which helped a lot. There's quite a good American book called 'High IQ Kids' which has come out recently - it's actually concerned specifically with the very highly gifted, and has lots of articles on various aspects. You might find it helpful if you haven't seen it already, you can get it on Amazon.

yurts in africa.

I do agree about travel btw - I travelled a lot and worked

whoopps meant to delete the second half- only half managed it. It wasn't important.

cornish ones are good too though

god I feel like I'm on a different planet reading some of these posts! Thanks arionator for your kind words and advice - I'll look out for the book. Whilst I wouldn't want either of my daughters to struggle financially - I can honestly say that having to manage on an incredibly tight budget growing up and when the kids were young helped teach me the value of things and showed me ways of being happy that don't rely on having money (sorry if sounds a bit cheesey). By the way I like yurts and rain and can't stand hotels (remind me of work!)

I worked overseas a lot Before DD - not sure if I ever will again though . I don't really feel comfortable holidaying/travelling in a developing country unless I'm working there or at least in the region (or have family links). Someone I knew used to call that 'making a holiday from someone else's poverty'.

The yurts look great!

That's kind of what I was going to write yesterday - well about having travelled before so not feeling the urge for beach holidays. Most of my travelling/working abroad was in the developed world so I don't really know about that side of things but I think that's why I don't feel the need for holidays as such- as it wouldn't be doing what I was doing pre-kids anyway.

gracemargaret- you do not want to be reminded of work on holiday!

This is slightly off topic, but when your daughter is a little older she might appreciate Orson Scott Card's books about a boy called Ender (Ender's Game). It is written about really gifted children and I have read letters by gifted children to him about how much it meant to them. You may need to read it first as some of the issues are quite tough and it deals quite frankly with bullying and even death.

No I couldn't do that kind of travel with dd. Some people do - but I'm a bit too overprotective to cope with that. I miss it though. I miss the heat and the dust. I'm not too big on rain.

Must say I don't mind hotels though - mainly for the plumbing. Dh is a camping fiend. I'll have to show him the yurts.

I have a fetish for log cabins.

Yes, I (we) travelled a lot before the kids were born so maybe that is why I'm happy not to do it at the moment.

I've just read back my posts from yesterday and they sound so bloody arrogant.I really didn't intend them that way. Sometimes it's difficult to articulate the sentiment you want in a post.

Yurts look fab,BTW!

Or lijaco if he'd gone to a good prviate schools where everyone is clever (or grammar if they still existed across teh country) there would be no bad crowd in the academic sense because 100% of the sixth form goes to good universities. So shouldn't we be doing what we sued to -plucking these clever children out at 11 and being put into academic schools?

Not everyone is clever at private schools. Some are, some aren't - even at "good" private schools. The ONLY thing children at private schools have in common is that someone in the family is rich.

Everyone at my sons school is very clever.
They freak me out a bit.

Depends on the school. If it's a private school with 4 children competing for each place at 11+ then those schools lke the grammar schools are full of children all of whom are going to have an IQ of at least 120+ which used to be about the old grammar school and university entrance level. Some private schools cater for children who are not very bright. Even there the peer pressure may still be to make an attempt at university and perhaps there's less chance of someone getting in with the wrong sort and going off the rails although in any schools that is always a risk. But there are a good few private schools where 100% of pupils go to good universities or 99.99%

I'm sure grammar schools are generally good for those who get in - but what about the rest? It just isn't a fair system. I had a couple of friends at school whose parents bussed them out to our comp because they had failed the 11+. They both went on to University - one is an art teacher and I forget what the other one does. But they would never have been able to do that at the bog-awful secondary modern (and who really wanted to teach there?). Being at the comp allowed them time to develop in the few subjects they were better at. I do think there have to be streamed sets though - life for me improved dramatically when streaming started in the 3rd form (stopped being bullied mainly).

Also - and this is very subjective - in my limited experience at university, it seemed to me that a lot of privately educated students peeked at A level and become rather mediocre thereafter.

We are about to move house (just had the offer accepted) to a much better school area. I have no qualms about that and if we couldn't have moved we would definitely consoder private schools. But whenever possible - I think it's best to opt into the state comprehensive system.

I did have a lot of problems throughout school. I was not like Grace's gifted dd but in some twilight zone. I'm very anxious that dd does not go through the same - I gues that's why I am curious about these threads. I want to have some idea how to deal with the situation if she starts showing similar tendancies/issues/problems.