why 9 times out of 10 gifted doesn'tmean gifted.

[gracemargaret]

I have read many of the threads here and have been watching with amusement the whole G&T developments in education. I have two daughters who have both been placed on this register - one who was born truly "gifted" and has never ceased to amaze and frankly terrify me from the day she was born, and the other who is bright and quite academic and who is bound to do well in life with far less emotional difficulty along the way. My eldest daughter is eight - she spoke in sentences at 9 months of age was reading and writing before two - she has never really been a "child" - has never played with toys or other children (and I was a stay at home mum running a toddler group so she had plenty of opportunity!) Take her to a park and she will sit on a bench with a book. She is already far cleverer than either myself or her father and will spend hours in her room (if we let her) reading books and writing notes/constructing powerpoint presentations. As an example the other day I suggested going for a walk (it was raining) and she said she was rather "waterproof to that idea and was much more absorbant to the idea of staying at home" - she also likes home made food as "you can taste not just the ingredients but the effort too" Although she has us in stitches constantly with the things she says, her intelligence is far from a blessing as I worry about her constantly - she is so emotionally sensitive that she can hallucinate when upset and will taste words and smell voices - I am sure at some point she will be bullied as she is so obviously different and awkward and I can't see how she will ever develop as an adult able to deal with the realities of life (although will try my best to help her). My other daughter is an absolute joy - bright, very popular, high achiever and wonderfully within the realms of normal - she might be in the top 5% but is definitely not "gifted" despite what school might say and gives me far less reason to worry. Although I love both my daughters more than anything I still say nobody would choose a gifted child and what gifted children need most is not pushing to acheive (this is an inner drive they have anyway), but support, love, and help to try to adjust to a world where they may never feel they "belong". Good luck to everyone with gifted kids - and those with high achievers - know the difference - and realise how lucky you are!!

DH earns what I consider to be a stupid amount of money (6 figures) working for a City bank.
Before our kids were born he used to get great satisfaction from his job and his salary. Now, he's first to admit it's meaningless and empty. There's no way he could leave as we've just taken on a stupidly high mortgage but I know he's sometimes jealous of my p/t teaching job.

He was considered very bright at school and he carried his parents' and teachers' expectations with him all the way through to the City. Of course being financially secure brings a certain amount of happiness but it isn't the key ingredient of a happy life. Our kids bring him far more joy than his financial and career success.

Ironically, one of the main reasons we've gone private for schooling is that there seems to be more of an ethos of trying everything in life and choosing to do what makes you happy. So much more emphasis on art and music for instance.

When we were at school, bright kids like us who came from council estates were pushed and pushed to academically achieve as much as possible-that was the ultimate and only goal. I want my kids, both of whom seem very bright but nowhere near exceptional, to feel free to choose whichever path makes them happy.

Whilst we should always strive to make sure that bright kids reach their potential, it's important to remember that that potential shouldn't be limited to academic achievement.

Grace, both your DDs sound wonderful and I hope you find help in supporting your DD1's exceptional gift.

My husband IS really successful but does not love what he does. But he does not 'whinge' about it - I am simply stating what I know to be true. He can't just do something else because he is driven by trying to secure a future for a profoundly disabled son which is extremely expensive.
He is very prudent financially and hopefully part of our providing for our son will be his retiring early so that we share DS2 care and do so somewhere scenic and hot.
I also know plenty of DH's collegues who would profess to love their job but actually, when you examine it , they like the status and the power and the money. Not actually the same thing but I can see why that makes people enjoy their jobs.
My DH is a man of very little ego so the status and the power doesn't 'float his boat' and ease him through the day.
I am not criticising those who do enjoy the big desk, flash lunches, first class travel yes sir no sir stuff - some perfectly nice people I know love all that stuff - I am just saying that enjoying the prestige is not the same as enjoyoing the work.
DS1 is equally quiet and modest so I think would need something 'more'

Yes, KKM; Poverty is awful.

Neither of us wallow in self-indulgence as we both know how lucky we are. We both grew up on very rough estates and know what it means to be poor. Definately happier not being poor but I think people only need to be comfortable to feel happy.

understand where both pagwatch and cushioncover are coming from.

DH is a lawyer- he left the City because we wanted to move away from London so is not particularly high powered now, although will eventually be well paid for this part of the world. He would currently be earning at least double had we stayed (we moved 5 years ago).

We often snigger about the fact that he was bright, did the whole Oxbridge/profession thing to end up in law which he really does not enjoy one little bit. He's not interested in status, and is very uninterested in time recording- & the bit of the job he likes (the intellectual challenge I guess) is swamped by the business needs.

DH says ds2 and ds3 can do whatever they like 'as long as its not bloody law'. I suspect (already; he's only 6) that ds2 will end up doing something in computers as he lives and breathes them. Better to follow a passion than money I think. If it ends up being combined with money then great, but I think for happiness the passion needs to come first.

cushioncover- I think there's a difference between poor being comfortable and being wealthy. Being poor does contribute to unhappiness but you only need to reach a relatively low income for further income to make no difference. It only will if- as pagwatch has said - you get a kick out of the power/status thing that tends to go with money. A lot of people don't though.

Yes, I agree. What I was trying to say was, that poverty will always bring a great amount of stress and unhappiness regardless of who happy other areas of one's life is.
But, you don't need to be earning vast amounts of money to be happy. You just needenough to take away the stress of poverty.

or - as I always put it - enough money that you don't have to worry about money on a day to day /week to week basis.

think I might go and start a thread about how many people on this site are either lawyers or married to lawyers. I think the number is VERY high.

What makes jobs interesting is the intellectual challenges for most people, variety too and dealing with different types of businesses and people. A lot of people who earn a lot do love their work. People on benefits manage children with special needs so I am not sure that is really a reason to feel you have to earn a lot of money. Anyway what I want for my children is they love their work. That's it but if they earn a lot too that's even better. Makes life easier. Then they won't be cap in hand to a husband to dole out housekeeping or whatever you see on some MN threads sometimes. They will keep themselves, enjoy their work and earn enough to choose how and where their children are educated.

In fact I don't think my children are hugely materialistic at all and neither am I but I do think money gives you choice and freedom.

Xenia

"People on benefits manage children with special needs so I am not sure that is really a reason to feel you have to earn a lot of money".

With respect - that is total bollocks.

I can honestly said that profound special needs is one of the very few areas where the amount of money you have can have a profound effect upon your childs development and indeed their whole life and the happiness of the whole family.

People with children with SN on benefits manage because they love their child and because they have to. And money can be life changing for people who can become trapped by their childs difficulties. Indeed many treatments and therapies are only accessible to people with cash. My DS costs about £200 a week just in therapies, nutritional support and miscellaneous other stuff. I have watched him improved when his impoverished peers don't. It is one of the few valid reasons for doing a job you don't particularly like that i can think of

I would also say that affluent families which include a child with SN are more likely to have access to good quality respite care, giving everyone a much needed rest. Also that money allows then to ensure that the siblings of the SN child have as normal a childhood as possible.

I think it's true in the early years- less so with increasing age (for example all our therapy and respite hours are paid for by social services- but it did take years to get to that point- and they don't know they're paying for therapies as such )

If you want to do biomed then yes money helps. DS1 started refusing to take any supplements etc so we stopped paying for it about 3 years ago.

If you wanted to do full time ABA then yes money would help enormously.

If money was no object there is one therapy I would be doing now that I'm not because of cash- there were more a few year ago.

And as adults- its can be unhelpful for the child to have money of their own as it will just go on care costs. But it depends on the level of care needed. DS1's will be 300 quid a DAY- so I would rather SS pay for it.

Pagwatch, with regards your final sentence; I have to say that many, many men (and women) carry on doing a job the hate every day simply to put food on the table even when all their kids are NT.

My father is a very clever man (he passed 10 olevels at 14)who sadly, being the eldest of 6, had no choice but to leave school at 15 and go down the pit. He hated it. His friends at grammar school stayed on and flourished. Parents married young and he had no choice but to stay in the job to support us. He finally went to uni in his 30s though!

cushion
I do totally agree .My father was that same man. Married at 18 and 8 kids he took jobs to pay the bills.
I was simply emphasising my objection to the rather dismissive way I was told that Dhs reasons for continung to work were apparently not good enough.

I also know many parents who cope with SN kids brilliantly with no money. It does not negate the point thattheir lives and those of siblings can be helped with some extra cash

Money makes some happy people happier but I still believe you can't buy happiness. My Husband and I could both be in higher paid jobs than we are - in fact he has actually decided to change jobs and work part time. We eat together every day, spend evenings walking the dog as a family, have time to go out as a couple - and friends who babysit for free. My daughters think "new" clothes arrive in a bin bag at the door once every few months. They get tucked into bed by mum AND dad EVERY night. Neither of us have any work to take home. Neither of us are stressed. We are part of a fantastic community - living in a tiny house in a tiny village in the middle of nowhere - I can see sheep and hills out of my window, hardly ever sit in traffic, and know every parent and every child at my daughters school - So who's richer - me or the trust fund manager!! My ambitions for my daughters are for them to truly know themselves and hopefully I will support them finding hapiness however THEY choose - obviously selfishly I hope they will realise their potential so I can be proud of their achievements, but this doesn't guarantee happiness any more than money.

Yurt
we are not intending to leave any money directly to DS2. We will leave money to other DC's but hope to leave enough to help them help him.
You have obviously been much better at getting help through the system than we have .We get squit

"Trust fund"???? Think I meant Hedge fund......see she doesn't get it from me!!

Spending 9-9 (cannot imagine p's h can be so lucky as to work 9-5 - sounds a bit implausible actually), 5 days a week doing something you have little passion for because you never had a vocation and can't think of anything better to do and having a flash car and a fuck off house really isn't that bad.

I don't have a child with SN (or not a seriously bad SN) but I certainly agree you would do what you could. I suppose I was assuming the less money you have the more the state pays for and if you have money the less the state provides but that may just be simplistic.

I was the first in the family to defend my sister's opting out as a lifestyle choice at the time and remember debating whether those of us who work in proper jobs are as much in a cult as she was, as much brainwashed in our own conventional ways (and I am the one with the desert island where I can be as alternative as I like....) BUT I think it helped my sister hugely that she had a good career to return to when her life took a different turn. So if my children have something good to reject I would feel happier than if they left school at 16 and went on benefits etc.

No Quattrocento he doesn't work 9 - 5 he works 10 - 4, three days a week so he can drop kids off/pick/up/take to ballet etc. It's actually me that works full time but do a lot from home. Guessing you live somewhere in the South of the country?

All this talk of not wanting to be a hedge fund manager sounds very high-minded but I find it depressing. It seems that the majority of women on here want a pin-money job that doesn?t get in the way of their home life. So who is imposing the glass ceiling on women? It sounds to me like it is the women themselves.
So what were feminists fighting for and why did they bother?

Feminists fought for choice and great that we have it - just personally I'd choose home life over hedge fund manager every time!

It's different values isn't it? I'm a carer for a disabled child and work in research (actually 'work' is a bit misleading as I'm doing a second funded PhD- it;s intellectually challenging, brings in some money and is flexible in the way being a hedge fund manager would never be ). Feminism is surely about choices- many women want to be at home bringing up their children, I want to be at home to meet my severely autistic child from the school bus each day (which is lucky as there's no after care available for him in this city). The fact that every woman doesn't choose to fight their way to the top of the slippery pole, the fact that for many women power and status is not important, the fact that for many women being physically around their children doesn't negate feminism. I don't want to be a hedge fund manager in part because I find the whole money markets city thing dull beyond belief and because I've met enough people who work in that environment to know that it is not where I want to be, and I would prefer to spend my time with people who have, on the whole, different values. TBH I do want a job that doesn't get in the way of my home life, DH wants the same. We both work, but jobs that got in the way of our home life would be dull and depressing indeed.