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Gifted and talented

Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

why 9 times out of 10 gifted doesn'tmean gifted.

211 replies

gracemargaret · 20/01/2008 23:46

I have read many of the threads here and have been watching with amusement the whole G&T developments in education. I have two daughters who have both been placed on this register - one who was born truly "gifted" and has never ceased to amaze and frankly terrify me from the day she was born, and the other who is bright and quite academic and who is bound to do well in life with far less emotional difficulty along the way. My eldest daughter is eight - she spoke in sentences at 9 months of age was reading and writing before two - she has never really been a "child" - has never played with toys or other children (and I was a stay at home mum running a toddler group so she had plenty of opportunity!) Take her to a park and she will sit on a bench with a book. She is already far cleverer than either myself or her father and will spend hours in her room (if we let her) reading books and writing notes/constructing powerpoint presentations. As an example the other day I suggested going for a walk (it was raining) and she said she was rather "waterproof to that idea and was much more absorbant to the idea of staying at home" - she also likes home made food as "you can taste not just the ingredients but the effort too" Although she has us in stitches constantly with the things she says, her intelligence is far from a blessing as I worry about her constantly - she is so emotionally sensitive that she can hallucinate when upset and will taste words and smell voices - I am sure at some point she will be bullied as she is so obviously different and awkward and I can't see how she will ever develop as an adult able to deal with the realities of life (although will try my best to help her). My other daughter is an absolute joy - bright, very popular, high achiever and wonderfully within the realms of normal - she might be in the top 5% but is definitely not "gifted" despite what school might say and gives me far less reason to worry. Although I love both my daughters more than anything I still say nobody would choose a gifted child and what gifted children need most is not pushing to acheive (this is an inner drive they have anyway), but support, love, and help to try to adjust to a world where they may never feel they "belong". Good luck to everyone with gifted kids - and those with high achievers - know the difference - and realise how lucky you are!!

OP posts:
TotalChaos · 20/01/2008 23:53

what you describe about your DD tasting words and smelling voices sounds like synaesthesia - you might want to look at more info here.

www.syn.sussex.ac.uk/

gracemargaret · 21/01/2008 00:14

Someone mentioned this before. Thanks for the link though I'll check it out .

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KrippledKerryMum · 21/01/2008 00:16

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camox · 21/01/2008 13:44

I do get fed up with this.
The Government has decided that the term ?Gifted? means something specific. It has been defined as the top 5% of the intelligence band (or is it 10% this week ?). It?s not you or me that decide these things, it?s the mandarins in Whitehall. We all know that the top 1% are a whole other story but, in the world of education, Giftedness is merely a word chosen by Government to describe a certain subset of children.

The whole idea of the G&T programme is that Giftedness is seen as part of the normal educational scene and thus has to be catered for. The idea is for every school to search out their G&T and give them proper provision. The definition does not mean ?so rare that it only happens once in a blue moon and therefore so infrequently that we can ignore it?. Or is that what you want?

?what gifted children need most is ? support, love, and help to try to adjust to a world where they may never feel they ?belong?.?

And who is best suited to help them? Well blow me down with a feather: it?s their peer group, the other kids (the 2% -5%) on the G&T list!

KrippledKerryMum · 21/01/2008 14:10

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Piffle · 21/01/2008 14:16

see many similarities grace with my ds1...
also have dd who is very bright, but although teacher places her above her peers (only reception - what is the point!!!! let her enjoy being a kid) but there is a vast difference between them
And yes ds1 was much harder - he is 14 next week and has bene badly bullied, had few friends, been sensitive and outcast but also a great companion, other times a source of complete frustration.
It has gotten better as he has got older. Although as you rightly worry, between 9-12 were his darkest times.

Blandmum · 21/01/2008 14:26

The current system of the top 5-10% is a simple nonsense. It identifies children who are clever, which is nice, but it doesn't mean that the children 'need' anything other than loving parents and some good books.

A personal 'for instance' I was in the top set for maths in school. Under the current rules, I would have been listed as gifted and talented.

I count of my fingers! I have no interest in, or aptitude for, maths!

Re getting the bright kids together, well this can be fun, and in many cases useful. It can also be exceptionally hard work. I run quite a bit of G and T outreach, and many of these children have little drive to group work. I have had several refuse to work in groups initially.

Sometimes they also 'get away' with a superficial answer or grasp of a subject. because they are able they often have little practice at actually working through problems. If they can't 'see' the answer instantly, they often stop trying far sooner than less able children.

With work, this changes, but it does take a while.

Really 'gifted' children are exceptionally rare. What we are identifying are 'clever' children.

gracemargaret · 21/01/2008 17:44

I understand that the Government have decided to redefine the term gifted - that doesn't mean it is correct or desirable however - I completely agree with martianbishop - we are identifying "clever" children who will do well given good teaching and parental support. I find the whole concept of gifted labels and registers such as this in education pointless, slightly misleading and divisive (just my opnion - I won't yawn at anyone else's). And I disagree - I think it is all the children at school that I should be encouraging my daughter to interact with and who can help her (and have) - not just the 2% -5% on the G&T list!

OP posts:
Twiglett · 21/01/2008 17:51

I think you should look into synaesthesia ... gawd I wish I had this (there a few Mners who do)

I have to say the phrase "waterproof to that idea and was much more absorbant to the idea of staying at home" just doesn't make any sense to me .. but I love the 'tasting the effort'

I applaud everything else you ahve said .. I wish you luck

bellabelly · 21/01/2008 17:55

I think many teachers hate the "g&t" tag but it never seems to get changed. 99% of the students classified as "g&t" are perfectly nice bright students who achieve well but are not lessed (or cursed!) with a rare and incredible "gift". But the scheme does pump money and opportunities into an area which, frankly, it's all too easy to overlook while you deal with more difficult issues (poor behaviour, chronic attendance, etc etc).

Acinonyx · 21/01/2008 22:13

Do you think they could have found a better label for the top 10%? If so - what? Seriously - I think the term G & T was ill-chosen but I'm not sure what would have been better (leaving aside the whole issue of whether there should be extra provision or not). 'Clever' wouldn't work.

moonstruck · 21/01/2008 22:31

Acinonyx-I think the term 'able' is perhaps a better description?
Truly gifted children are rare and usually come across as quite rude- therefore alienating themselves from peers.
I think if too much emphasis is put on how bright and different they are it is hard to recover. They need to be around all types od children-maybe doing things that take them out of their comfort zone? Or focusing more on the arts?

Acinonyx · 21/01/2008 22:44

I was thinking something with the term 'able' as well.

When I was at school (in the dark ages) there was a top set but it didn't have a label - it was just the top set or Class a or whatever. Makes me wonder if we have to have an official label at all.

Grace - how does your gifted dd cope with school? Is she able to fit in? What do you think would most benefit a child like her?

KrippledKerryMum · 21/01/2008 23:01

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Heated · 21/01/2008 23:04

Whilst teaching I've known of only one truly G&T child for maths (remarkable in other areas too), who was beyond the ken of his maths teacher, a professor, and at interview at Oxford just asked one question, answered their formula in 5 mins and then the next 15 explaining to them how it could be advanced. Yet apparently I teach a whole raft of them!

I do and have taught some super bright children - nat youth orchestra/12A*boy, aqa award boy last year - which qualify for Moonstruck's "able" but none in the way the GraceMargaret describes.

To the OP, from my pov, both your dd's sound fantastic but a scary responsibility too.

moonstruck · 21/01/2008 23:06

KKM- What on earth are you on about? We were discussing trems for children who are clever but not gifted as the poster thought they shouldn't all be bunched in together.
My suggestions were drawn from personal experience. No one refereed to them as freaks, but the OP was worried about her truly gifted child's social skills.
Urgh! Right back at you

KrippledKerryMum · 21/01/2008 23:13

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moonstruck · 21/01/2008 23:23

Yes, the family member I was referring to who was gifted did come across like that! Isn't this a format for people to share experiences?
Comfort zone for my family member was in his roon, not socialising
Waht is wrong with suggesting exposure to the arts? This is what worked for his mother
I think you are overreacting a bit tbh

harpsichordcarrier · 21/01/2008 23:30

I think extra help for able/clever children is a good idea, tbh, as their needs are generally not being met by mainstream education.
G&T is an annoying label, but it is surely possible to look beyond that and see the benefits for the children and wider society?

KrippledKerryMum · 21/01/2008 23:30

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Quattrocento · 21/01/2008 23:33

Have not read thread - just op - you need mb here - I remember a post of her's once - it went something like

the hallmark of a truly gifted child is that they are motivated to learn for themselves

oh she said it better but I understand exactly what she means

Heated · 21/01/2008 23:34

The Ruf scale is useful but I still question the use of the word 'gifted' which seems to have become an overarching term and not as many imagine it to mean, the truly remarkable. It's a very loaded term. If gifted at basic level can apply to 90th-98th percentiles on standardized tests, that covers nearly all the intake of some grammar/selective schools.

I teach that range and within that range identify 'g&t' students, yet none come close to gracemargaret's moving description of her dd. And I do think this description is what ppl recognise when the term gifted is applied.

PaulaYatesBiggestFan · 21/01/2008 23:49

i wish i understood it better

agree whole heartedly with Heated re selective schools

my 3 eldest dcs have all been called 'gifted' they go to selective grammars now where they are top but not tip top in everything

i think that is 'gifted' not just 'bright' or even 'bloody bright'

my dcs are swots not gifted!

BellaDonna79 · 22/01/2008 09:26

gracemargaret, have you heard of cty? Its an organization run for gifted children by johns Hopkins Uni in Baltimore, I was lucky enough to spend 3 weeks there in the summer of 91 when I was 13 and it was amazing. I'm much more like your other dd but there were plenty of kids who were just like your dd1 in the super gifted kind of way. I don't know what the funding is like now but when I went there were 4 of us from the uk who went on non means assessed scholarships so there could be something similar now! Let me just find you the web address...

BellaDonna79 · 22/01/2008 09:30

here It is, cty.jhu.edu/