Bright child has no friends at preschool

[Tetherless]

My son started at preschool in September, having turned 3 last May (so is still 3). He’d never been to childcare before and we’d had a very isolated existence during covid as all family live abroad and we had to shield for the first lockdown. He struggled a lot settling in initially - wouldn’t sit with other children at meals, cried at drop off etc - but by the end of the first term he was joining in with everything, got on really well with the staff and seemed to me to have made huge progress.

He didn’t play with other kids at all at first but now does to a limited degree (apparently mainly when he can lead the activity). He much prefers talking to the adults. The staff have said that they are concerned with his social communication because he doesn’t have friends yet and have mentioned ASD as something they are thinking about.

DS is and always has been incredibly advanced - he met all milestones early, particularly those relating to communication (babbled with consonants at 4 months, pointing and first words at 8 months, sentences at 13 months). His maths is similarly advanced and he is extremely musical. He can read pretty well (on year 1 books atm). He is incredibly sensitive, imaginative, has a fantastic memory and sense of humour and is creative with a very wide range of interests. Motor skills wise he walked early, could ride a bike before he was 3, draws really well and starting to write. He has no sensory issues, eats and sleeps well and I have never considered him to have any kind of rigidness in terms of approach to routines. He’s generally pretty flexible but will sometimes kick off if he doesn’t get what he wants (which I thought was typical of his age). He is a bit of a stickler for the rules when playing games and that’s one of the things that nursery has cited (in addition to his preference for talking to adults) as “evidence” that he may be on the spectrum.

It has never crossed my mind that he is anything other than a bright but neurotypical child. Quite how bright I’m not sure. I feel that his issues making friends and preferring adults stem from a combination of natural shyness (DH and I both shy, academically high achieving kids), lack of practice due to covid and being used to being with adults, and difficulty engaging with peers whose language and interests are very different from his.

I feel that nursery has totally got it wrong but am conscious of course that they have a lot of experience (though possibly not with a child with this particular combination of circumstances). I feel slightly trapped in a parallel universe where they are seeing a completely different child from the one we see at home. They don’t seem to see his intelligence as a factor in his interactions with peers and seem keen to label him which seems crazy to me.

Should I be concerned? Is there anything I should be saying/doing with them or with him? Do I need to help him more with friendships or will it come with time? I feel slightly at a loss.

OP, I could (and did) write every word of every one of your posts, about my DS who's almost 8. He's autistic, and having been daunted and resistant when it was first suggested to me, I've come to realise that the things I love most about my brilliant, handsome, kind, sensitive, hilarious, thoughtful boy are also the things that, when aggregated, led to his diagnosis.

He didn't need any more support than any other baby or preschooler, and in early juniors he is still the easiest boy in the world, but we put lots of thought into making sure he's at the right school with a wonderful SEN who's made it a joyful experience for him and our family, and he enjoys life more when we help him prep for upcoming changes and steer him when he encounters unexpected circumstances.

The place you're in right now is so familiar to me. If your wonderful DS is autistic, and he gets a diagnosis in the future, I promise you that you won't look back and regret it - it's just a tool to help you understand his needs better and make sure he has the sort of environment in which he can thrive.

Sending your family my family's very best wishes.

@AlexaShutUp I think this is it. Academic high achievers who mask their social difficulties don’t get identified as readily as students whose needs cause others more issues.

I spent my childhood feeling horrifically anxious and like I hadn’t ‘got the memo’. Nobody ever offered me help, just berated me for being ‘clever but scatty’, like a professor. It’s pretty clear to me now why I felt like this.

@BessieFinknottle

The problem where I am is the opposite. Playschools and schools are too slow to suggest autism to a parent, I don't think they're allowed? Obviously they can't diagnose, but I think they should be able to mention it as something worth looking into. As a pp said, they use vague terms such as 'behavioral issues', 'issues around language' and the parent is supposed to guess what to do then. As early intervention is so important, I wish they were able to be more direct.

I wouldn't dismiss what the nursery is saying Tetherless, they might be wrong or right, but maybe it's worth looking at things more closely. I find that many of the strategies used for children with ASD are very helpful for NT children anyway.

Couldn't agree more!

I had 2 years of 'behavioural issues / friendship issues / finds the classroom difficult' like I was supposed to guess. Turns out all the staff had been whispering to each other that it was obviously autism all that time.....but no one raised it to us as parents.

Made me feel like a right mug and lost all trust in the staff. Obviously NOW I can see he's autistic but I didn't know then because I didn't know anything about the complexities of how it presents!

@Tetherless you seem absolutely determined that DS or anyone in your family isn't autistic. If your DS is diagnosed, how will you cope?

@Tetherless at my sons ASD school the super bright ones aren't overly artistic but the ones who aren't as academic often are - almost like they each have their special interest area that they excel at.

My DS has a highly gifted IQ but can't always access that in the traditional classroom way. In reception they said he was so clever 'he'll go to Oxford' when in reality now as he's developed, he might not manage exams - he's still incredibly intelligent though. He's also great at music because he approaches reading music like a mathematical task - but he can't improvise or create music.

Op Your child, and this is not your fault, has had barely any interaction at all with anyone of his own age practically for his whole life. Please don't feel bad about it, as you can't help a pandemic.

My dc at this age were doing a few hobbies a week, 2 playdates or lunches or a meet up in the park and family (with kids) more weekends than not. We encouraged farm visits with other families and big lunches so they could run around in the garden. The smaller sibling won't be able to offer much in terms of social connection etc so he has been an only child for quite a while in terms of his actual social opportunity.

we only meet up with friends with similar age children occasionally (as I said he tends to enjoy it when we do)

He doesn't enjoy what you do, he just doesn't know any different.

It wouldn't surprise me that he is entirely overwhelmed in a big nursery and he is gravitating towards his safe person (adults) and engaging with them because he is used to it.

Lots and lots of playdates with little friends and introduce a few hobbies - art for tots is lovely and gentle or something more fun, there is so much choice on offer. Days out with friends and really really throwing yourself into it. If after an extended period of socialisation he is still not mixing well with his peers you can reevaluate then?

Do you like to mix with friends often? He could be taking his cues from you.

[quote BelleTheBananas]@AlexaShutUp I think this is it. Academic high achievers who mask their social difficulties don’t get identified as readily as students whose needs cause others more issues.

I spent my childhood feeling horrifically anxious and like I hadn’t ‘got the memo’. Nobody ever offered me help, just berated me for being ‘clever but scatty’, like a professor. It’s pretty clear to me now why I felt like this.[/quote]
Yep, me too. Not autistic but definitely not neurotypical (ADHD).

Life would have been so much easier if someone had acted on the signs when I was younger, but I excelled academically so nobody bothered.

Sorry I read your post is that he tends to enjoy what you do - apologies.

"Reading this thread one could come away with the impression that everyone is autistic, they just don’t know it yet."

No. You started a thread about concerns raised by nursery workers which might indicate ASD. As a result you have responses from parents who have been in a similar position. ASD may well have a genetic component and therefore a proportion of those responding may also be on the spectrum or have suspicions about themselves or family. It's not rocket science!

Anyway I hope everything works out well.

@BelleTheBananas - your post sums up my teenage years (and beyond), it's made me oddly (!) emotional.

Please try to put aside your understandable shock and get on the waiting list for assessment. Far better you do this at a young age and be told it's not ASD than wait until your child is older and potentially really struggling (if they do have ASD) where you then have a long wait for help. It can get more obvious and cause more difficulties the older the child gets. I used to think ASD was always quite obvious with extreme behaviour. It's not. People with ASD have huge variance in how it manifests. It's called a spectrum but it's more like a pick n mix. Sometimes a lot of it can be internalised too. It can be more subtle than you think.

I have no idea if the nursery are right or not about ASD, but socialising children is more imperative than ever after the lockdowns, and if he is ND even more so.

@Notonthestairs @AlexaShutUp

I don’t have a diagnosis, but DS1 has ASD/ADHD. I’m convinced I too have ADHD. He has so much more support and understanding as a result of his diagnosis. My memories of being his age involve having random phobias, being called a snob, getting into trouble for losing stuff, feeling terrified of having done something wrong, missing verbal instructions, being paralysed by fear when left at birthday parties and feeling homesick on the school residential. Adults would just write me off as ‘highly strung’ and bollock me for losing my PE kit. It’s quite sad, really.

I would see what staff are wanting to do. If they are looking at interventions to support your ds surely that would be great for bringing him on. If they suggest he sees a paediatrician with a view to pathway referral then you will have a qualified professional giving their opinion. I honestly wouldn't overthink it just see what happens.

@Tetherless

Sorry but what suggests autism? He’s an early reader but he doesn’t have hyperlexia - his comprehension and spoken language is excellent. The only things nursery have raised as a concern are that he prefers speaking to adults over children and he likes enforcing rules when they play rule based games - are those things really red flags for autism?! DH and I are both neurotypical.

Educational Psychologist here- without knowing the full history of your child, I can't really say but do think nursery may have a point based on what you've shared. Get your child referred and see what their psychologist comes up with.

Fwiw, Children with ASD exist on a spectrum- they have their own strengths and weaknesses. Please don't write them off.

belle My dd has just been diagnosed with ADHD she is 13 and it has come as a shock. I assumed she was a creatively messy child, that needed guidance and a bit of help with organisation.

Your list brought tears to my eyes, as now we know we have no idea what to do with the information!

She is very very bright too, and seems to not understand how she can understand complex maths equations, but not to remember her PE kit/mobile phone etc every day.

Even getting her to remember to brush her teeth, flush the loo and wash her hair, close the cupboards. It feels exhausting as a parent, and I am constantly putting myself in her shoes and work hard to be gentle rather than nag. To sign post her rather than do things for her. What more can I do to help? I found the self help books so negative, they actually made me cry.

Ps. My child is the same age and I'm currently having them assessed for ASD. A diagnosis isn't a death sentence.

@Swayingpalmtrees

belle My dd has just been diagnosed with ADHD she is 13 and it has come as a shock. I assumed she was a creatively messy child, that needed guidance and a bit of help with organisation.

Your list brought tears to my eyes, as now we know we have no idea what to do with the information!

She is very very bright too, and seems to not understand how she can understand complex maths equations, but not to remember her PE kit/mobile phone etc every day.

Even getting her to remember to brush her teeth, flush the loo and wash her hair, close the cupboards. It feels exhausting as a parent, and I am constantly putting myself in her shoes and work hard to be gentle rather than nag. To sign post her rather than do things for her. What more can I do to help? I found the self help books so negative, they actually made me cry.

ADHD usually co-exists with DCD (or 'Dyspraxia'). A lot of what you're describing sounds like DCD. Please get your child seen by an OT (occupational therapist- school or the GP can refer- usually quicker via the GP).

Very bright/gifted children with a adhd/autism etc are often referred to as twice exceptional.

Their intelligence can help them mask their challenges (usually to a point) and likewise the adhd/autism can mask their giftedness.

Dd falls into this category due to her tested IQ and having an adhd diagnosis.

We have told the school, still waiting to hear from them seven weeks on. I will look into an occupational therapist. She falls and drops everything constantly. The only child to have a million riding lessons and still can't ride! It does make sense. She is a fearless skier though and bombs down the black runs so there is a silver lining

@Swayingpalmtrees

DS1 has MASSIVELY benefited from Methylphenidate (Ritalin). If your psychiatrist/doctor has suggested medication, I would go for it. I know that my executive function would be improved significantly if I could take medication.

In terms of support, executive dysfunction (organisation) is the ‘visible’ bit of ADHD; technology helps me with this (reminders, alarms, apps). Anxiety is the invisible bit; I’ll be honest and say that I self-medicated for this side of things when actually, Ritalin would have improved things significantly.

Good luck

*"I’m just really confused.

Like many posters have said that my entire description of him suggests he has ASD, but most of the info that I can find is lists like this, where he doesn’t fit any of those criteria, apart from the making friends one which is in the older children box. So maybe I just fundamentally don’t understand what autism actually is or can’t find the right resources.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism/signs/children/"*

The masking is a big thing, we literally had no idea there was really anything wrong, we assumed it was just the way she was - a ball of energy until afterwards her relief was truly palpable when she found out.

Now she reminds me she can't close cupboard doors because of her ADHD and she definitely can't be expected to load the dishwasher or god forbid walk the dogs she might get lost

Sorry, posted too soon.

Most clinical psychologists use criteria from the DSM-5 and the ICD-10 to diagnose. Both are available online. Substituting 'different' or 'atypical' for 'deficit' and its variations might help you. The 'deficit' language can knock parents off course because its offensive and doesn't seem to represent what they're seeing.

Thank you belle that is really helpful. I will look into that now I really don't want to let her down. She gets really anxious about being left alone in places, gets very homesick at sleepovers or school trips and wants to stay at home a lot more than she should at her age.

Sorry don't want to derail op, but what I would say IF it is something along these lines he would be far better supported than my dd has been for the last ten years. She has been shouldering this all by herself for years, and I feel terrible about it. Thank god I am actually a nice parent, because I would have lost my shit before now with the number of broken things in the house/lost phone/smashed laptops and such like.

@dottypencilcase

My daughter 12 is the same. I’ve focused on keeping her happy and scaffolded her. I’ve tried to protect her self esteem

Her consultant recommended looking for an ‘outcome based behavioural therapist’ to help her learn some executive functioning skills.

Dd is great, she rows and swims competitively which ground her immensely and make her happy. She also loves art and loves doing animation on her tablet.

She’s had an assortment of obsessions (often pet related). She’s doing a good job of looking after her newest pets (mice)

I’m currently looking for a therapist. But I’m going to try a CBT model based one as she’s starting secondary school which will be both great and challenging for her.