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Bright child has no friends at preschool

431 replies

Tetherless · 30/03/2022 18:59

My son started at preschool in September, having turned 3 last May (so is still 3). He’d never been to childcare before and we’d had a very isolated existence during covid as all family live abroad and we had to shield for the first lockdown. He struggled a lot settling in initially - wouldn’t sit with other children at meals, cried at drop off etc - but by the end of the first term he was joining in with everything, got on really well with the staff and seemed to me to have made huge progress.

He didn’t play with other kids at all at first but now does to a limited degree (apparently mainly when he can lead the activity). He much prefers talking to the adults. The staff have said that they are concerned with his social communication because he doesn’t have friends yet and have mentioned ASD as something they are thinking about.

DS is and always has been incredibly advanced - he met all milestones early, particularly those relating to communication (babbled with consonants at 4 months, pointing and first words at 8 months, sentences at 13 months). His maths is similarly advanced and he is extremely musical. He can read pretty well (on year 1 books atm). He is incredibly sensitive, imaginative, has a fantastic memory and sense of humour and is creative with a very wide range of interests. Motor skills wise he walked early, could ride a bike before he was 3, draws really well and starting to write. He has no sensory issues, eats and sleeps well and I have never considered him to have any kind of rigidness in terms of approach to routines. He’s generally pretty flexible but will sometimes kick off if he doesn’t get what he wants (which I thought was typical of his age). He is a bit of a stickler for the rules when playing games and that’s one of the things that nursery has cited (in addition to his preference for talking to adults) as “evidence” that he may be on the spectrum.

It has never crossed my mind that he is anything other than a bright but neurotypical child. Quite how bright I’m not sure. I feel that his issues making friends and preferring adults stem from a combination of natural shyness (DH and I both shy, academically high achieving kids), lack of practice due to covid and being used to being with adults, and difficulty engaging with peers whose language and interests are very different from his.

I feel that nursery has totally got it wrong but am conscious of course that they have a lot of experience (though possibly not with a child with this particular combination of circumstances). I feel slightly trapped in a parallel universe where they are seeing a completely different child from the one we see at home. They don’t seem to see his intelligence as a factor in his interactions with peers and seem keen to label him which seems crazy to me.

Should I be concerned? Is there anything I should be saying/doing with them or with him? Do I need to help him more with friendships or will it come with time? I feel slightly at a loss.

OP posts:
BelleTheBananas · 31/03/2022 15:30

@Swayingpalmtrees feel free to PM me. I’m also a secondary teacher (18 years experience) so know lots of ND teenage girls, plus I’m doing a psychology masters with a view to becoming an edpsych (although far from qualified, unlike @dottypencilcase).

Medication is key. I justified it to myself by asking myself if I’d medicate DS1 if he were diabetic (of course I would).

Swayingpalmtrees · 31/03/2022 15:30

Thank you so much belle Flowers

Ohnonevermind · 31/03/2022 15:30

@Swayingpalmtrees

My daughter has been taking concerta for the last 6/8 weeks. It has helped her enormously and a low dose has made a huge difference to her happiness in school. It hasn’t helped with her executive functioning but that’s the next step. I’ve done OT but am going to try a CBT model

There are some good organisational books. My daughter saw a lovely OT, but is happy to let me still do it all 🤣

Notonthestairs · 31/03/2022 15:34

Sorry - off the main topic...

DD finds verbal instructions too much so we use laminated signs for bathroom/kitchen issues (like the ones you find in public loos "have you washed your hands?" Grin) But the OT gave us good advice for dressing, pens etc - well worth pursuing a referral.

Belle - I could have written your list. I think that's why I am so happy to make adjustments for DD. I want her to understand herself better - and to be proud of who she is. Positive self esteem is what carries you through life.

PacificState · 31/03/2022 15:37

[off topic, but I think music and maths quite often co-exist as talents or enthusiasms don't they? Pattern recognition...]

theqentity · 31/03/2022 15:42

@gamerchick

DH and I are both neurotypical

I wouldn't be too sure about that tbh OP.

Agreed.
5zeds · 31/03/2022 15:46

I wonder which is most likely, OP and her husband navigate life with a profound neurological difference and have a child who is similarly neurodiverse without the slightest inkling despite demonstrably high IQs and interest, OR two shy bright people have a shy bright child who after years of isolation from peers isn’t very sociable at nursery.

Personally I’d think about a different nursery.

HerculesMulligan · 31/03/2022 15:49

Three years after DS' diagnosis, we see every one of his most obviously autistic traits in someone else in our extended family. Some of them in me and DH, but more in my dad, my sister, his dad etc. While I'm not diminishing the experience of anyone whose autistic child has real behavioural challenges, our DS is just a charming combination of things we all know and love already. I wouldn't change a hair on his head and I certainly wouldn't take away his autistic traits; not least because then I would know fewer facts about the Great Fire of London.

toomuchlaundry · 31/03/2022 15:56

@5zeds why would you move the child from a place that is showing concern and wanting to help. Don’t you believe a diagnosis helps?

BoredZelda · 31/03/2022 16:15

Mine was similar. She’s 12 now and has plenty of friends.

5zeds · 31/03/2022 16:32

@toomuchlaundry

5zeds why would you move the child from a place that is showing concern and wanting to help. because a nursery that expresses concern by naming a serious life changing condition that takes time and multiple professionals to diagnose based on the fact a child doesn’t, aged 3, have friends and likes talking to adults is unprofessional. They don’t appear to be comfortable with OPs child or to have accommodated his difficulties or gifts in any way other than to worry his mum.

Don’t you believe a diagnosis helps? thus sounds a bit like “don’t you believe in Father Christmas”. Ridiculous. Diagnosis can be extremely helpful depending on what that diagnosis is and how informed/experienced those around the person are. However if you are talking about using it to access support in school, that is “needs” driven and not dependent on dx. If you mean it helps understand who you are etc, I’m not enormously convinced it does.

Gowithme · 31/03/2022 16:57

Hi OP, my ds has Aspergers syndrome, he didn't do any of the things from that NHS list and he wasn't diagnosed until secondary age. The triad of impairment for ASD are social interaction (so spending time with adults rather than other children could be an example), language communication (this could be taking some things too literally which is common or not recognising sarcasm for example) and behaviour (it could be having a favourite episode of something and wanting to watch it over and over, or being obsessed with dinosaurs and knowing the name of loads of them or liking toys set out a particular way).

I would try not to worry either way, either he is on the spectrum and it will become increasingly clear as he gets older - or he isn't and it won't. He's obviously high functioning so it's doubtful he'd get any extra support due to diagnosis if he is bright, unless his behaviour suddenly seriously deteriorated - my ds didn't anyway.

What are nursery proposing to do? Are they going to get someone in to observe him? This is what happened with my son and was very useful (a lady from SEND came to school who was brilliant). If this is what they propose then please go with it - they will not try to shoe horn your child into ASD - but they might have lots of suggestions for things nursery could do to help regardless of whether they think it could be ASD or not.

If you don't see it though then I would just let the nursery go with it as they please, support them but don't look to get a diagnosis yet. Try to see it as a positive that they want to help him whatever the cause and don't feel you need to be defensive because there's no need. He won't be diagnosed with ASD if he doesn't have it.

Gowithme · 31/03/2022 17:07

[quote 5zeds]@toomuchlaundry

5zeds why would you move the child from a place that is showing concern and wanting to help. because a nursery that expresses concern by naming a serious life changing condition that takes time and multiple professionals to diagnose based on the fact a child doesn’t, aged 3, have friends and likes talking to adults is unprofessional. They don’t appear to be comfortable with OPs child or to have accommodated his difficulties or gifts in any way other than to worry his mum.

Don’t you believe a diagnosis helps? thus sounds a bit like “don’t you believe in Father Christmas”. Ridiculous. Diagnosis can be extremely helpful depending on what that diagnosis is and how informed/experienced those around the person are. However if you are talking about using it to access support in school, that is “needs” driven and not dependent on dx. If you mean it helps understand who you are etc, I’m not enormously convinced it does.[/quote]
This is ridiculous. Them expressing concern has no bearing on whether he actually has what you call 'a serious life changing condition' or not. Far, far better to express concern then to just hope it sorts itself out on its own. Their behaviour isn't at all unprofessional, my sons teacher got someone in to observe him based on an inkling....which turned out to be correct. I don't see anything that suggests they are uncomfortable with him - didn't the OP say they were doing things to try to help him with friendships?

Also it only took one professional to diagnose my son, just depends on where you live and who you see. A diagnosis very much helps you understand who you are - you hear it from adults with ASD all the time. It also helps others understand who you are, such as parents, teachers, employers etc.

yellowblanketban · 31/03/2022 17:29

[quote 5zeds]@toomuchlaundry

5zeds why would you move the child from a place that is showing concern and wanting to help. because a nursery that expresses concern by naming a serious life changing condition that takes time and multiple professionals to diagnose based on the fact a child doesn’t, aged 3, have friends and likes talking to adults is unprofessional. They don’t appear to be comfortable with OPs child or to have accommodated his difficulties or gifts in any way other than to worry his mum.

Don’t you believe a diagnosis helps? thus sounds a bit like “don’t you believe in Father Christmas”. Ridiculous. Diagnosis can be extremely helpful depending on what that diagnosis is and how informed/experienced those around the person are. However if you are talking about using it to access support in school, that is “needs” driven and not dependent on dx. If you mean it helps understand who you are etc, I’m not enormously convinced it does.[/quote]
Serious life changing condition???! are you taking the piss - it's not a cancer diagnosis you know ffs 🙄

Clymene · 31/03/2022 17:33

How many diagnosed neurodivergent children do you have @5zeds? Just out of interest

autienotnaughty · 31/03/2022 17:34

@5zeds

I wonder which is most likely, OP and her husband navigate life with a profound neurological difference and have a child who is similarly neurodiverse without the slightest inkling despite demonstrably high IQs and interest, OR two shy bright people have a shy bright child who after years of isolation from peers isn’t very sociable at nursery.

Personally I’d think about a different nursery.

You understand it's a nursery's job to mention any concerns and any nursery worth it's salt would talk to parents if concerned. It's pre schools responsibility to refer to paediatrician if concerned. It doesn't mean he's autistic. He would be assessed be a team of professionals to decide that. Also as explained earlier down the thread social development is about more than wether a child plays with other children.
5zeds · 31/03/2022 17:45

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PlayDohDots · 31/03/2022 17:54

But are talented creative/literary/poetic/artistic/musical people more likely to be autistic or neurotypical?

Absolutely not. I was very artistically talented as a child and went on to have a successful career so I feel my ADD was a blessing not a curse. Creating artistic things sends me into a state of hyperfocus which is incredible pleasurable (the zone, flow or whatever other names it has), so I kept chasing that feeling. As a result I packed in more hours of practice than neurotypically possible and sailed through art classes and uni. I had loads of artistic friends at uni and had to say that at least 50% were not NT. It takes a different type of brain to sit and practice one skill that could be repetitive and boring (which is why the "talent" many artists have is actually an addiction to hyperfocus state they get from being creative).

As someone else said, it's often impossible for a parent or anyone on the outside to truly know what goes on in someone's head. Those are usually worst case scenarios where ND traits make it impossible to have a happy life or relationships. There is a HUGE proportion of ND people who are simply living "normal" lives and all their quirks are inside. Eg My sensory issues mean I'm not a fan of constricting clothes, bras make up or high heels however I can easily wear them if needed. I simply take them off at the earliest possible moment after getting home. Nobody, least of all my parents, would ever imagine me having "sensory issues" since I never made a fuss about clothing or needed certain textures. This was even less pronounced in childhood so it's impossible to say with many kids.

Clymene · 31/03/2022 18:05

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5zeds · 31/03/2022 18:19

One

Teenylittlefella · 31/03/2022 18:21

5zeds has at least 1 autistic child iirc from previous threads.

The key point I think though, is that all of the children now starting nursery have missed out on socialisation to some extent; he won't be the only oldest/ only child there. Yet still the nursery is perceiving something qualitatively different.

I do think that it is the responsibility of a nursery to draw a parent's attention to concerns of this type. Of course they may be wrong, but it would in my view be remiss of them to have suspicions which they do not share with the parent. Of course they can't diagnose, but they haven't. They have just begun to raise the possibility.

I disagree with whoever upthread is using "social communication difficulties" as a code and not saying the "a word" to parents. That's not fair. Parents have every right to know that someone somewhere has a concern about autism. It must of course be made absolutely clear that a referral would need to be made for a diagnosis. But if the parent doesn't know what "social communication" is code for, then they aren't giving properly informed consent for any subsequent referrals.

5zeds · 31/03/2022 18:21

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Lookingforanswers202 · 31/03/2022 18:21

@5zeds obviously thinks I’d someone doesn’t have a diagnosis they aren’t autistic Hmm

5zeds · 31/03/2022 18:23

Do I? That’s an odd conclusion to draw from an insistence that a nursery teacher shouldn’t be suggesting diagnosis to parents.

Lookingforanswers202 · 31/03/2022 18:29

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