Bright child has no friends at preschool

[Tetherless]

My son started at preschool in September, having turned 3 last May (so is still 3). He’d never been to childcare before and we’d had a very isolated existence during covid as all family live abroad and we had to shield for the first lockdown. He struggled a lot settling in initially - wouldn’t sit with other children at meals, cried at drop off etc - but by the end of the first term he was joining in with everything, got on really well with the staff and seemed to me to have made huge progress.

He didn’t play with other kids at all at first but now does to a limited degree (apparently mainly when he can lead the activity). He much prefers talking to the adults. The staff have said that they are concerned with his social communication because he doesn’t have friends yet and have mentioned ASD as something they are thinking about.

DS is and always has been incredibly advanced - he met all milestones early, particularly those relating to communication (babbled with consonants at 4 months, pointing and first words at 8 months, sentences at 13 months). His maths is similarly advanced and he is extremely musical. He can read pretty well (on year 1 books atm). He is incredibly sensitive, imaginative, has a fantastic memory and sense of humour and is creative with a very wide range of interests. Motor skills wise he walked early, could ride a bike before he was 3, draws really well and starting to write. He has no sensory issues, eats and sleeps well and I have never considered him to have any kind of rigidness in terms of approach to routines. He’s generally pretty flexible but will sometimes kick off if he doesn’t get what he wants (which I thought was typical of his age). He is a bit of a stickler for the rules when playing games and that’s one of the things that nursery has cited (in addition to his preference for talking to adults) as “evidence” that he may be on the spectrum.

It has never crossed my mind that he is anything other than a bright but neurotypical child. Quite how bright I’m not sure. I feel that his issues making friends and preferring adults stem from a combination of natural shyness (DH and I both shy, academically high achieving kids), lack of practice due to covid and being used to being with adults, and difficulty engaging with peers whose language and interests are very different from his.

I feel that nursery has totally got it wrong but am conscious of course that they have a lot of experience (though possibly not with a child with this particular combination of circumstances). I feel slightly trapped in a parallel universe where they are seeing a completely different child from the one we see at home. They don’t seem to see his intelligence as a factor in his interactions with peers and seem keen to label him which seems crazy to me.

Should I be concerned? Is there anything I should be saying/doing with them or with him? Do I need to help him more with friendships or will it come with time? I feel slightly at a loss.

I was also an early reader and I ended up studying English literature at university.

My son isn’t interested in words per se - he loves stories and he loves talking about them. He is very good at predicting what will happen next and interpreting the words with pictures to understand the content. A friend’s child is being assessed for ASD and since a very young age has been really fascinated by letters themselves and would eg stare at the alphabets they have in kids playgrounds rather than playing on the equipment. That is absolutely not DS.

Just because early reading can be an indicator of autism doesn’t mean that it is one. I didn’t even think his reading was especially unusual - when we were choosing his primary schools the teachers said there were always a few kids who could read starting reception.

The one and only thing that I am concerned about, and the only thing that nursery have mentioned as an issue is the relationships with peers thing. And I’ve got the message loud and clear now that that is enough to merit getting him checked out.

A bright neurotypical chikc would typically be advanced in social communication, so the mismatch of advanced in most areas but behind in social communication does suggest ASD as a possibility. They’re not labelling him, they don’t have the qualifications to do that they’re just mentioning it as a possibility.
My nursery and school teachers said the same to my mum and she dismissed it every time, said I was just bright and shy, didn’t want to “label” me, and my entire school life was hell because I didn’t have the help I needed.

Whilst I appreciate nursery has lots of experience, equally I’m not doing my job for my son if I just accept what is said without considering whether or not I agree with it.

I think this is an interesting perspective. Nobody is suggesting that you should accept the nursery's suggestion as a diagnosis, but rather that you should be open to considering the possibility and maybe exploring it further.

It seems to me that you think it is your job to "defend" your ds against the suggestion that autism might be a factor, whereas I think your job is to keep an open mind and explore all avenues in order to ensure that he has the best chance of getting any support that he might need. The nursery might be right, or they might not, but you seem more invested in them being wrong about it than you are in exploring the reasons why they might have highlighted concerns in the first place. If your ds does turn out to be on the spectrum, it really won't be the end of the world. He will still be the same delightful little boy that he is, with the same talents and strengths. You will just have some additional insights into the things that he might be struggling with at the moment, and you will hopefully have a bit more support to help him develop in those areas.

@PacificState
But he's told me that he really needs to think hard about other people's emotional responses to things and be aware that he doesn't always instinctively understand other people's non verbal signals.
This is so funny as I would have thought it shows your son must have a much better than average grasp of social awareness. Most blokes I know aren't capable of such introspection. 😅

The one and only thing that I am concerned about, and the only thing that nursery have mentioned as an issue is the relationships with peers thing. And I’ve got the message loud and clear now that that is enough to merit getting him checked out.

You are only getting that message from the answers on Mumsnet on a post on 'gifted and talented' it's going to be a VERY VERY self selected group 😅. You should make your own mind up.

[quote WhyBeMeanLikeThat]@PacificState
But he's told me that he really needs to think hard about other people's emotional responses to things and be aware that he doesn't always instinctively understand other people's non verbal signals.
This is so funny as I would have thought it shows your son must have a much better than average grasp of social awareness. Most blokes I know aren't capable of such introspection. 😅 [/quote]
Yes that's true! His dad could definitely do with being so aware that he needs to pay attention to people's non verbal cues 😂 I think in DS's case he's come to this conclusion because he felt like stuff was happening around him that he didn't understand - that people were almost using a code that he hadn't cracked, and getting pissed off with him for not understanding. So he set himself the task of trying to work out what was going on.

I'm not saying he does have ASD or that this is typical of ASD by the way - I don't know, but he thinks it's significant. All I know is I suddenly started getting Mother's Day cards and presents

@ntsure

A bright neurotypical chikc would typically be advanced in social communication, so the mismatch of advanced in most areas but behind in social communication does suggest ASD as a possibility. They’re not labelling him, they don’t have the qualifications to do that they’re just mentioning it as a possibility. My nursery and school teachers said the same to my mum and she dismissed it every time, said I was just bright and shy, didn’t want to “label” me, and my entire school life was hell because I didn’t have the help I needed.

I had really thought that he was advanced in social communication. You can have a proper lovely interesting conversation with him. I have to admit that it hadn’t surprised me that he would prefer to have those conversations with the staff at nursery over the kids because it’s what he’s used to. They haven’t expressed any concern about the way he relates to them. It’s purely about the fact that he chooses them over the other kids.

With friends’ children on a 1-1 basis that I’ve seen he plays appropriately and doesn’t seem to have any problems, which is why my feeling was that it was a shyness/anxiety issue in big groups rather than anything else.

When children are having conversations with adults it’s much easier for them because the adult is kind of leading things along (even without realising) whereas it gets much more complicatied socialising with other children. It definitely could be shyness and from what you’ve written it doesn’t sound like he’d meet the criteria for an ASD diagnosis now but it’s something to keep in mind in the future if there are any issues I guess

DD's assessments (I pushed for the multiple checks) were stress free for her. They chatted and set up some games & had a chat with me. They know what they are doing and that they won't get the best out of the session without ensuring it is relaxed and open.

I was extremely resistant and thought I'd persuaded them they were wrong!
But the private report in particular - whilst upsetting - has been incredibly helpful and informative.

And getting ahead, thinking about the long term and getting support in place and getting to grips with the labyrinthine processes early on was invaluable.

You may never need to grapple with it - they can't find it if it's not there.

And I have relations that were sent for ASD assessment and were advised that it wasn't ASD - it was social anxiety. But this meant the school added extra support for them (small group teaching and some social skills development).

It could easily be shyness in larger groups, it might be ASD, it could be a whole range of things. He sounds lovely by the way! It’s a great way to continue those conversations with nursery around how to encourage him with peers / groups, what sort of things to try, what’s the best way of preparing him for school, etc. As long as all the conversations are ultimately focussed around “things to try to help him develop” (which are the sort of “next steps” that all children will have, not just extra bright ones or ASD ones or whatever), then that’s hopefully all good. The more possible motivations and scenarios we can picture, the bigger our toolkit of “how can we support our kids” the better.

DH and I are both neurotypical

I wouldn't be too sure about that tbh OP.

The social communication difficulties they have identified are that he prefers to talk to adults and will seek out staff rather than choosing to play with other kids. He does play with the other kids when it is facilitated by them. He doesn’t initiate it himself.

This describes my DD when she was 3. She is also bright and very advanced where reading/writing/numbers are concerned but 'behind' where social skills are concerned.

No one has officially raised any concerns re SEN but it's something I'm aware of and keeping an eye on.

DD is just about to turn 5. Starting school didn't go particularly smoothly an she struggled for the first few months socially and was basically quiet and a bit withdrawn socially amongst her peers and then having meltdowns the minute she was home. However, in the past couple of months there's been a huge improvement in her interaction with her friends. I think she'll probably always be slightly more at ease with adults but her socialising with children is no longer a 'problem'.

I'd say at 3, it's very early days to be trying to diagnose ASD or similar. Equally try not to be alarmed by the suggestion as the support is there if this is the case.

@gamerchick

DH and I are both neurotypical

I wouldn't be too sure about that tbh OP.

What an unkind and snide comment.

@nutellingyou

In my area it is the school or early years setting that makes the referral. Referrals are not accepted from the GP so no use signposting parents there.

That's really surprising. Where I am we would absolutely refer to HV or GP but of course talk to parents about concerns and symptoms rather than diagnose. It's massively important that ASD indicators are picked up in early years but it's also, where I am, not our role to say 'I think your child has ASD'.

We sometimes suggest the S&L team as they have the ability to diagnose ASD.

I have friends who have children with ASD but won't do anything about it, I've seen both sides, plus I believe my own DC is on the spectrum somewhere. I was lucky enough to have a Ed psych observation but nothing came from it (bright child just shy/quirky).

I work in a preschool and we are absolutely forbidden to give parents a diagnosis - which is what is happening here - because ASD is quite complex and other things can mimic it. We are allowed to refer, such as to social and communication services and speech and language, and will discuss this with parents. We also put in a lot of work to support the child as well as the parents. We will tell parents of things that are concerning us and use the words “social communication “ but never “ASD.“

I don’t blame the OP for being shocked and upset, so would I be. The nursery aren’t specialists in diagnosis but they can support and refer.

@gamerchick

DH and I are both neurotypical

I wouldn't be too sure about that tbh OP.

Lol If you’d like to query my glasses prescription while you’re at it go ahead.

What an unkind and snide comment

Why, what's wrong with being autistic?

@gamerchick

What an unkind and snide comment

Why, what's wrong with being autistic?

Nothing, but your tone implied you think you know more than I do about myself, based on nothing more than a few posts online. Of course it was snide.

OP I think they just meant that a lot of us find out about our own/partners ASD when our children get a diagnosis.

OP
I think you have set yourself up for getting the replies suggesting ASD by posting on MN and specifically on G&T.
You describe my DS1 to a T.
Only when he was 3 autism wasn't as prominent as it is now and no-one ever tried to label him.
He was shy but spectacularly bright, early reader and didn't make friends. He was my first so I didn't know any different.
DS2 was very different and very sociable.

DS1 is now a fully functioning adult in a good career. He was a high achiever academically and as he got older he became more adept socially having a wide circle of friends by the time he was a teenager.

I say go with your own instincts OP and don't be led down this path

Yes, I get that. However, without going into unnecessary detail, neither DH nor I have any autistic traits or had any difficulties at school or in adult life. There is no family history on either side of neurodiversity. We were both bright kids (met at Oxbridge) and both were shy but have got over that as adults. I’ve said I have no concerns on that front a couple of times on the thread so don’t really see why certain posters are disregarding and/or questioning that.

Actually I think gamerchick's comment is quite wise. Certainly DH & I learnt a lot about ourselves when we started reading up about autism & ASD. DH is also Oxbridge and preeminent in his field. I don't fall far short. I think our choice of career is, in retrospect, quite telling.

Anyway. Your child. Your business.

Nothing, but your tone implied you think you know more than I do about myself, based on nothing more than a few posts online. Of course it was snide

I'm not trying to be snide. I see HF autism as a positive. Some say it's a superpower. What I am fed up of is it being looked at in horror and a negative. It isn't and your whole tone is one of horror.

The nursery are in the best place to comment on something like autism, you aren't because you're too close to it if you've had no experience of it.

There's absolutely no harm in ruling it out.

I didn't see autism in family until my kid was diagnosed because I'd had no experience and my family were my normal But it's there.

Are you just basing that on no-one being diagnosed in your family?

Are you saying because you went to Oxbridge you can’t be autistic?

www.varsity.co.uk/science/16439

Not sure I made myself clear, I wasn't suggesting your DS had ASD. My DS does not have ASD but might have been suspected of it nowadays given the enthusiasm for labels