Bright child has no friends at preschool

[Tetherless]

My son started at preschool in September, having turned 3 last May (so is still 3). He’d never been to childcare before and we’d had a very isolated existence during covid as all family live abroad and we had to shield for the first lockdown. He struggled a lot settling in initially - wouldn’t sit with other children at meals, cried at drop off etc - but by the end of the first term he was joining in with everything, got on really well with the staff and seemed to me to have made huge progress.

He didn’t play with other kids at all at first but now does to a limited degree (apparently mainly when he can lead the activity). He much prefers talking to the adults. The staff have said that they are concerned with his social communication because he doesn’t have friends yet and have mentioned ASD as something they are thinking about.

DS is and always has been incredibly advanced - he met all milestones early, particularly those relating to communication (babbled with consonants at 4 months, pointing and first words at 8 months, sentences at 13 months). His maths is similarly advanced and he is extremely musical. He can read pretty well (on year 1 books atm). He is incredibly sensitive, imaginative, has a fantastic memory and sense of humour and is creative with a very wide range of interests. Motor skills wise he walked early, could ride a bike before he was 3, draws really well and starting to write. He has no sensory issues, eats and sleeps well and I have never considered him to have any kind of rigidness in terms of approach to routines. He’s generally pretty flexible but will sometimes kick off if he doesn’t get what he wants (which I thought was typical of his age). He is a bit of a stickler for the rules when playing games and that’s one of the things that nursery has cited (in addition to his preference for talking to adults) as “evidence” that he may be on the spectrum.

It has never crossed my mind that he is anything other than a bright but neurotypical child. Quite how bright I’m not sure. I feel that his issues making friends and preferring adults stem from a combination of natural shyness (DH and I both shy, academically high achieving kids), lack of practice due to covid and being used to being with adults, and difficulty engaging with peers whose language and interests are very different from his.

I feel that nursery has totally got it wrong but am conscious of course that they have a lot of experience (though possibly not with a child with this particular combination of circumstances). I feel slightly trapped in a parallel universe where they are seeing a completely different child from the one we see at home. They don’t seem to see his intelligence as a factor in his interactions with peers and seem keen to label him which seems crazy to me.

Should I be concerned? Is there anything I should be saying/doing with them or with him? Do I need to help him more with friendships or will it come with time? I feel slightly at a loss.

You have to fit the criteria to achieve diagnosis. That’s what diagnosis is.

Even if it's "only" extreme shyness (I put only in quotation marks because it's actually extremely debilitating for a child) there is support available. My son was assigned his own speech therapist who would come in to school and work with him. Teachers were briefed not to pressurise him to speak or behave a certain way. She also did little activities with him in very small groups. She identified the children he seemed most comfortable with (even though he wasn't actually speaking to them) and would ask them to do group activities together (play based). He did start to come out of his shell a little - not talking as such but he gradually started to play with them. Progress has been continuous but sooo slow! There were other activities she did with him to help him socialise with other children too. I can't remember them all now but they definitely helped him in terms of interaction/socialisation.

@5zeds

You have to fit the criteria to achieve diagnosis. That’s what diagnosis is.

Yes, I agree. What I'm saying is that it sometimes isn't immediately obvious whether a child does fit the diagnostic criteria. Presentation can be subtle in young children. You need professional imput to be sure.

Sounds just like my dd. Wasn't spotted when she was young but all the signs were there although she did have some friends in primary.
High school was very hard for her as she felt she had nothing in common with her peers and therefore was very lonely...and still is 😔. She's 18 now and got an ASD (formerly Aspergers) diagnosis last year. I think an earlier diagnosis would have helped her greatly.

OK. This is years ago though. I was a very sociable baby/young child as DM started her own Busy Club in her own house (yes I know madness!) and then went to playgroup etc.

When I started infant school I had friends but only 2 close/best friends. All the way through infant and junior school. It was commented on by my teachers. I also loved reading and sometimes if other children came over I'd actually go and read.

I was also very advanced and could read/write by the time I started infant school, proper joined up writing and my DM despaired that they used the ball and stick method.

I was shy though.

FFW to my 20s and I became very outgoing, extrovert and could speak/talk to anyone. In fact I became known for organising social events with friends/work and I enjoyed them.

I don't think I'm ASD etc but might have certain slight traits. If you think your DS has these traits get him tested.

@nutellingyou

Honestly unless there are massive red flags they shouldn't be trying to diagnose ASD. Plenty of bright children are not the worlds most confident children or the best at social interactions. I've got one like that myself. I would ask them what ASD indicators they have seen that aren't developmentally normal for a preschooler. I am finding more and more kids are being labelled as 'probably on the spectrum' and sometimes it's because they're quiet, or bright or even just more polite than others. It's getting a bit ridiculous. If they can see something you honestly haven't spotted then speak to your GP or HV. But unless there are delays in development or behaviour problems then I'd wait and see how he develops.

@nutellingyou - I agree with you there! I can't recall when I started reading - at a certain age probably.

My big thing is when DB was born (2 years younger than me) he had chronic asthma and also my DP's divorced when I was 5, I was very close to DF. I got a stepfather too not long after they divorced.

I also wore glasses (for long sightedness and to correct a squint).

I was very bright, clever but I just wasn't that confident nor the best at socially interacting. I'm lucky in that DM took me to lots of activities as a child so I mixed with both children and adults.

There was nothing wrong with me - I was just quiet (but sociable when I wanted to be) and my home life was a bit chaotic at times (but fun) and I did need/want my own time!

I think that now I'd probably be wronging be diagnosed as not being NT when (I've done tests) I am. I might have a few traits of non NT but certainly not many and I can cope with them.

Your DS sounds very like mine at that age - early speech and early reader, good at maths, very bright, well behaved, never had tantrums, very creative, Oxbridge parents. The only difference was he didn't have any issues with making friends at nursery or infant school, although he was quite shy in new, unfamiliar situations eg he wouldn't initiate social interactions with children he didn't know at a playground and was reluctant to join in with groups if he didn't know anyone.

He didn't really have any major social issue issues until secondary school when he couldn't mask any more. It wasn't until his late teens that he was diagnosed with ASD.

At 3 and until the end of primary school, the only red flag for ASD was he was a very fussy/restrictive eater.

Subtle signs at that age that were dismissed by both us and HCPs (experts in ASD):

He liked the company of adults and older children more than his peers liked adult company but he also like playing with children of his own age (this was put down to him being "advanced/intelligent"). I wouldn't say he preferred adult company though.

He was a bit of a "little professor" but had a wide range of interests, again, this was put down to him being very bright.

He had some very mild sensory dislikes eg he didn't enjoy getting food/paint/sand etc on his hands, he would want them wiped or washed immediately, he would ask for labels to be cut out of clothes because they were scratchy, he didn't like wool jumpers on his skin. There were no meltdowns though, they were just things he didn't like much.

Like you, he's now a successful professional with a 1st class degree from a prestigious university in a happy relationship. The path to get there (and probably his future) would have been a lot easier if he had had support from an early age and the signs hadn't been ignored.

Your son may or may not be on the spectrum. He is currently struggling with social skills so would it be so terrible to investigate whether he needs extra support?

You may well have covered this already but id want to see a copy of the nursery plan for supporting him and any notes they take. Maybe a bi-monthly update if they'd be open to meeting with you to discuss.
That way you can track and show progress and won't get any unexpected news.
If he's starting school in September it would also be good to discuss support to ease transition from one setting to another (maybe schools do this as standard, I'm probably out of date)

@5zeds

They probably have little or no experience of social communication disorder because nobody talks about it and if they did, they’d ask if you’re quite sure it’s not autism. . The suggestion that the majority of people at our top university have a neurological disorder is just silly. I think it always helps to think if things practically. What would you do differently if a toddler was autistic. The advice is fairly basic good parenting rather than anything more.

It's not a "neurological disorder", it's a neurological difference. So it doesn't seem silly to suggest that the people at the top of the top academically are neurologically different to most other people.

I haven't RTFT as it's too long, I've just read the OPs posts so sorry if I'm repeating what someone else has put.
OP people aren't telling you their experiences and diagnoses to be nasty or upset you, they're doing it to help you. No one on this thread knows your child but there are a lot of people who based on what you have said believe that nursery have a point. I'd follow their lead. If it comes back that no he doesn't have it then happy days. If it comes up that he does then he will be getting the help he needs. It may be upsetting for you but it will be win win for him.

@chesirecat99 Like you, he's now a successful professional with a 1st class degree from a prestigious university in a happy relationship. The path to get there (and probably his future) would have been a lot easier if he had had support from an early age and the signs hadn't been ignored.
This is interesting and it’s always fascinating to hear from peoples who's children are now grown. What support from an early age do you think would have helped him? What further do you think could/should he have achieved if he has a healthy relationship and has excelled academically and professionally?

So it doesn't seem silly to suggest that the people at the top of the top academically are neurologically different to most other people. I’m sorry but it really does. You could for example say everyone with an IQ between 90 and 110 is “neurologically different” to those with >110 or

I remember being struck by the comment before that ‘high intelligence and high achieving’ are not the same at all. It’s very easy to confuse the two. High intelligence doesn’t always translate into high achievement.

[quote 5zeds]**@chesirecat99* Like you, he's now a successful professional with a 1st class degree from a prestigious university in a happy relationship. The path to get there (and probably his future) would have been a lot easier if he had had support from an early age and the signs hadn't been ignored.*
This is interesting and it’s always fascinating to hear from peoples who's children are now grown. What support from an early age do you think would have helped him? What further do you think could/should he have achieved if he has a healthy relationship and has excelled academically and professionally?[/quote]
@5zeds, I have opposite experience to some of other posters here.
My ds was referred to paed by nursery. And he didn't get diagnosis. He was discharged after assessments, with possibility to contact them again if things have changed.
We never needed to contact them, since he had no problems at school, and he is in secondary now.

Do I think nursery did a wrong thing to suggest he may have autism? No. They helped him in so many ways. They facilitated the environment for him to socialise with other children more easily. The manager took on the role as his 1-1. They encouraged him to pursue his interest while trying to build his confidence. We attended groups for socially awkward children suggested by nursery. He had slt sessions. He had access to portage.

All this became available because the nursery recognised his difficulty and suggested to do something.
The fact was, autism or not, he obviously had problem. And he had so much help to overcome his difficulty.
So I am really grateful for them to be caring enough to offer help.

That sounds really good @grapehyacinthisactuallyblue. My son’s nursery are also working with him and I hope it helps. Will take the advice here to check in with them regularly.

I have to say that based on my experience at Cambridge I strongly disagree that the majority of my peers there were neurologically different. I studied English and the typical student was privately educated, had a great deal of cultural capital, generally very socially assured and otherwise completely “normal”. I had a wide range of friends studying a very wide range of subjects and whilst there were definitely a few individuals that I came across who suffered with certain issues (eg a few people I knew had terrible anxiety problems and needed adjustments for exams etc as a result) I didn’t have any friends with any (apparent) social issues whatsoever.

I’m sure someone will come along and tell me they were all masking like crazy and must have had ASD and I didn’t realise, but I graduated 12 years ago and everyone is established in standard careers, mostly married and with kids and no indication of any issues whatsoever.

Being clever is not a disability.

I can understand this has come as a shock to you. I'm going to go against the grain somehow. How about you don't do anything just yet? Take some time, try to sort out as many play dates as you can which will boost your sons confidence and social skills. You will also be able to observe him with other kids, perhaps small groups and see what you think. Perhaps spend a little bit of time doing some research about autism, speak to the nursery with an open mind and just take some time to form your own opinions. He is so young, still only three. Surely there is no massive rush although I'm aware it can take a very long time for an assessment. People are just giving their own opinions here. I'm saying this as the mother to a nine year old who probably is autistic (we have been advised that we would struggle to get a diagnosis due to concurrent dyspraxia and sensory processing disorder). He is a very clever, quirky boy who I couldn't be prouder of. Your son sounds great also

@Newuser82 has your DC been diagnosed with dyspraxia and sensory processing disorder? Does his school give additional help where required?

@toomuchlaundry yes he has been diagnosed with both. He struggles with a few things but mainly at school with handwriting. He is taken out of class four times a week during form time or assembly for handwriting exercises as well as physical exercises and activities to strengthen his core strength and hand development. They are mindful of where he sits as he can't focus when sitting next to louder kids and he is allowed fidget toys in class. He manages very well but I can't say it doesn't affect him, possibly more so as he gets older.

Support in response to need is standard practice in uk education. It isn’t and should never be dependent on diagnosis and obviously there are points where assessment by professionals outside school/nursery might be helpful. People like speech and language therapists, CIT, Ed Psych, OT, are often in and out of school and not only assess but suggest support. A school might suggest a trip to the GP who might refer you on to a consultant. All of that leads towards diagnosis of any difficulties. I don’t think any of those stages need to be jumped in order to chase a particular diagnosis. I definitely don’t think a nursery teacher IS qualified or positioned to be suggesting outcomes.

It does depend on area - referall to paed assesment is through school here, not through GP.

And ed psychs arent in and out of shcool. Schools have so little budget they will jave them in for a specific case but even they sre rationed far too much.

Sorry I didn’t mean they weren’t in school to see specific children I meant it’s part of the process. Seeing a paediatrician should be arranged through a dr not a teacher. Can I ask what part of the country you are in that this is the route used?

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this (I've only read the OP's posts) but I have heard that a larger-than-usual number of nursery and reception-aged children are currently presenting as autistic because Covid restrictions have prevented them from socialising more widely, so they haven't developed those skills. It is early days, though worth keeping an eye on. Two of my sons are autistic (one diagnosed at 7, one at 11), but neither ticks the boxes on the NHS list 🤷‍♀️ and they couldn't be more different from each other!

No as don't share geographical data. But it is the norm here - forms done via sendco then community paeds (not camhs as some areas). Absolutely isn't GP. Paed assesment then S and L assessment for proper assesment here, then paed makes final judgement. Takes 18m-2years.

Ed psych isn't part of the process here either. (They don't usually diagnose autism do they?) But Ed psychs are called on for specific help and observation woth a sepcific child. They really are rare though and only if overwhelming problem in school/other avenues haven't worked.

I roughly work in this area (not a clinician) so seen it a lot from parent angle. However my child has never seen the GP about autism from start to finish! She was just copied in on documents.